Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[QuakingStar]

Jiren is not THAT much stronger than SSBKK20 Goku or SSBE Vegeta so he's not wrong.

Huh? Did you watch the anime at all?

Jiren knocked Goku out of Kaio-Ken with an eye glare, he took on SSJB Kaio-ken Goku and SSJBE Vegeta at the same time casually, he overpowered a ki blast from #17, a Kamehameha from SSJB Kaio-ken Goku and a Final Flash from SSJBE Vegeta all at the same time with just his aura alone, he overpowered SSJB Kaio-Ken Goku's Spirit Bomb with an eye glare.

Are you in denial or something? He was clearly way, WAY stronger than everyone except when Goku tapped into UI.

Also there's much more to what Vegeta said about Jiren in Super Hero

That overwhelmingly powerful Jiren... In truth, when it comes to power itself, the gap between him and us is not that big

Even during the midst of a battle, he keeps both his body and spirit relaxed at all times with the exception of the one instance in which he attacks.

Meanwhile in the anime Jiren was at his strongest when he was a powerful, roaring, emotional unstable mess of a fighter who tried to kill the members of Universe 7 in the spectator stands.


This zen martial artist Vegeta is describing is not the Jiren from the DBS anime I'm sorry.

Unless you think Jiren always used like 1% of his power at all times or similar nonsense many casual fans think.

What? I don't know why you're trying to imply I'm a casual fan when the idea of the DBS anime and movies being in different continuities has clearly shaken you to your core for some reason.

You are assuming they are in different continuities. Also, they used Blue together and faced SS Broly for a short time then decided Fusion was the only way. Just because they didn't use the higher forms didn't mean they can't it just means they would have been useless. Again I agree the gammas are at the SSB range of power, but to sit here and say its because Goku and Vegeta can only use Blue is just headcanon. You coming in here with your sassy little emoji's and your panties in a bunch doesn't make people want to take you serious either, take a chill pill and go outside or something.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That video about the movie continuity is interesting and all, but a DB Room member did confirm the movies follow from the anime and are aimed at the anime audience. Toriyama may not be that careful with continuity, but there’s no secret third continuity in Toriyama’s head. Unless you wanna count the half-remembered notes.

Goku and Vegeta got their asses kicked by Broly and reverted to base right after teleporting away. They simply had no energy to use Kaio-Ken or SSJBE.

[Mr Baggins]

There's hardly even a second continuity in Toriyama's head. Dragon Ball Super is just Dragon Ball Super; he gives his notes/drafts to Toei and Toyotaro to flesh out separately, although it should be noted that he collaborates more frequently and directly with Toyotaro which is why there tends to be some noticeable overlap between their work.

The TV anime has been canned for over half a decade now. He's dead, Jim. What we're seeing currently is what we're getting, like it or not.

[TobyS]

Is Shin stronger than SS1 Saiyans in the Buu saga?

It's weird that Piccolo considers "their dimensions are too different" but also was prepared to fight SS1's if they were stronger or even very close to Shin...

Was there a last minute retcon? Or would he have asked the saiyans to go easy on him or something unpiccololike which he felt he couldn't ask Shin, a stranger, to do.

[ZombieVito]

Is Shin stronger than SS1 Saiyans in the Buu saga?

It's weird that Piccolo considers "their dimensions are too different" but also was prepared to fight SS1's if they were stronger or even very close to Shin...

Was there a last minute retcon? Or would he have asked the saiyans to go easy on him or something unpiccololike which he felt he couldn't ask Shin, a stranger, to do.

He's definitely weaker than the adult Super Saiyans but I do think he's stronger than the kids.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Is Shin stronger than SS1 Saiyans in the Buu saga?

It's weird that Piccolo considers "their dimensions are too different" but also was prepared to fight SS1's if they were stronger or even very close to Shin...

Was there a last minute retcon? Or would he have asked the saiyans to go easy on him or something unpiccololike which he felt he couldn't ask Shin, a stranger, to do.

Nope. Shin tries to step in and stop Goku and Majin Vegeta from fighting and SSJ Goku just charges a ki blast and threatens to kill him if he intervenes. Also SSJ Gohan pulled the Z Sword.

I don’t think Piccolo would ever ask the Saiyans to go easy on him out of pride, but he probably expected them to anyway and had no idea what Shin was up to. There’s also the point that Shin’s whole vibe made him suspicious/uncomfortable, not just his power.

[Yuji]

The kids are near the adults and stronger than Piccolo so there's no way they're weaker than Shin. If Super is worth anything, they can easily handle several Cell Jrs each on their own.

Adult SS1s > kid SS1s > Shin > Piccolo > base Saiyans

[Thani]

Poor Shin, supreme god of Universe 7 (along with Beerus) and weaker than some children.

[TobyS]

The kids are near the adults and stronger than Piccolo so there's no way they're weaker than Shin. If Super is worth anything, they can easily handle several Cell Jrs each on their own.

Adult SS1s > kid SS1s > Shin > Piccolo > base Saiyans

No way Piccolo is weaker than the brats.

Is Shin stronger than SS1 Saiyans in the Buu saga?

It's weird that Piccolo considers "their dimensions are too different" but also was prepared to fight SS1's if they were stronger or even very close to Shin...

Was there a last minute retcon? Or would he have asked the saiyans to go easy on him or something unpiccololike which he felt he couldn't ask Shin, a stranger, to do.

Nope. Shin tries to step in and stop Goku and Majin Vegeta from fighting and SSJ Goku just charges a ki blast and threatens to kill him if he intervenes. Also SSJ Gohan pulled the Z Sword.

I don’t think Piccolo would ever ask the Saiyans to go easy on him out of pride, but he probably expected them to anyway and had no idea what Shin was up to. There’s also the point that Shin’s whole vibe made him suspicious/uncomfortable, not just his power.

By the time goku threatens kaioshin he's already seen goku vs Yakon and knows he'd have to take vegeta too. And then he'd have to fight babidi and dabra wounded even if he won.

I think Goku can beat shin but Him backing down is not a feat or anti feat given all that context.

I just find it weird that Piccolo would be scared of Shin but not them. I can't help but wonder if toriyama retconned shin lower or he really is above ss1 but below 2. He's for sure above the kids especially based on feats vs fat buu

[Hugo Boss]

From what I can remember from the original manga and from Future Trunks’ flashback, Shin is implied to be much weaker than SS Gohan/SS Trunks, who can fight toe to toe with Dabra. Kid Trunks and Goten weren’t too far apart from Gohan, so it’s possible that they were stronger than Shin as well.

By the way, what Piccolo said is basically that Shin was a being they couldn’t take lightly, that his presence was that of someone he couldn’t possibly challenge, perhaps even stronger than Gohan and Cell, given his reaction. But it turned out he wasn’t all that much, so I don’t think that implication is supposed to be interpreted as it was originally.

[ZombieVito]

I really don't think the kids are anywhere close to the adults.

Piccolo was stronger than them by the RoF arc and according to Toriyama all the characters were in their prime after defeating Boo so his gains would be minimal between the Boo and RoF arcs.

[QuakingStar]

Piccolo is stronger than Goten and Trunks, they were only every said to be stronger than Krillin, Master Roshi and Tien by the Tournament of Power.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Piccolo is stronger than Goten and Trunks, they were only every said to be stronger than Krillin, Master Roshi and Tien by the Tournament of Power.

He was certainly stronger than them by the Tournament of Power (he was stronger than SS2 Gohan who had gotten back into better fighting form compared to RoF where his Super Saiyan form was superior to Piccolo back then), but the real question is if he was stronger than their Super Sayan forms back during the Buu Saga.

[QuakingStar]

Piccolo is stronger than Goten and Trunks, they were only every said to be stronger than Krillin, Master Roshi and Tien by the Tournament of Power.

He was certainly stronger than them by the Tournament of Power (he was stronger than SS2 Gohan who had gotten back into better fighting form compared to RoF where his Super Saiyan form was superior to Piccolo back then), but the real question is if he was stronger than their Super Sayan forms back during the Buu Saga.

He based his statement on Shin on a feeling, not by actually sensing Shins power. Outside of that there isn't much to base Piccolo's power on in the Buu Saga.

[Thani]

From what I can remember from the original manga and from Future Trunks’ flashback, Shin is implied to be much weaker than SS Gohan/SS Trunks, who can fight toe to toe with Dabra. Kid Trunks and Goten weren’t too far apart from Gohan, so it’s possible that they were stronger than Shin as well.

At least on Trunks' case, Dabra was more or less dominating him the entire fight. Even after transforming into a SS2 by anger and catching Dabra off guard, he didn't cause him any real damage. Granted, it was a very quick exchange and Shin stopped Dabra's movements right afterwards, but it does feel that Toyo is of the opinion that Dabra was a SS2 level opponent.

[Hugo Boss]

I really don't think the kids are anywhere close to the adults.

Piccolo was stronger than them by the RoF arc and according to Toriyama all the characters were in their prime after defeating Boo so his gains would be minimal between the Boo and RoF arcs.

That’s because in Super the kids were nerfed, probably because Toriyama didn’t remember how strong they were in the original manga. SS Goten and SS Kid Trunks were stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo said to Krillin that without Goku, Gohan and Vegeta, the kids were their only hope to defeat Majin Boo, that was before he even knew about fusion, and their power was once so great that Piccolo felt the pressure of their max ki.

[ZombieVito]

That’s because in Super the kids were nerfed, probably because Toriyama didn’t remember how strong they were in the original manga. SS Goten and SS Kid Trunks were stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo said to Krillin that without Goku, Gohan and Vegeta, the kids were their only hope to defeat Majin Boo, that was before he even knew about fusion, and their power was once so great that Piccolo felt the pressure of their max ki.

Well of course they would be their last hope after Vegeta and Gohan died. They are Saiyans.

[QuakingStar]

That’s because in Super the kids were nerfed, probably because Toriyama didn’t remember how strong they were in the original manga. SS Goten and SS Kid Trunks were stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo said to Krillin that without Goku, Gohan and Vegeta, the kids were their only hope to defeat Majin Boo, that was before he even knew about fusion, and their power was once so great that Piccolo felt the pressure of their max ki.

Well of course they would be their last hope after Vegeta and Gohan died. They are Saiyans.

Besides that, they were the last hope because of Fusion alone. That's literally it lol

[ZombieVito]

Besides that, they were the last hope because of Fusion alone. That's literally it lol

Piccolo didn't know about fusion at the time. He probably was planning to toss them into the RoSaT and hope for the best.

[Hugo Boss]

Besides that, they were the last hope because of Fusion alone. That's literally it lol

Piccolo didn't know about fusion at the time. He probably was planning to toss them into the RoSaT and hope for the best.

That doesn’t mean they weren’t already stronger than Piccolo though, as the scene of them showing their full power suggest.