Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

[capsulecorp]

I don't know why people keep repeating this nonsense. Did they forget that the anime came first and was the main product? That the manga initially served only to promote the series? DBS (anime) was never adapted from anything other than the outlines that Toriyama provided to both Toei and Toyotaro. Therefore, they are not obligated to do anything related to Moro, Granola, or anything else. In fact, the only good part about DBD thing is finally ending this discussion: as it is now clear that Toei, Bandai, and Shueisha couldn't care less about this manga, having no mentions of exclusive events that happenned there in any animated media.

I'm not sure why the manga is treated like Toyotaro went rogue and writing whatever he wants. It's still supervised by Toriyama and outselling some manga that have an ongoing anime adaptation. This is an unrelated anime for the 40th anniversery and not evidence that the manga will never be adapted.

Mate, don't you think it's weird that the producers didn't take the safe route? Coming back with Super 2 (including Toyotaro's stuff) would be way more acceptable and profitable than a short anime just to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the franchise.

I actually appreciate that they'll willing to try stuff that's different than what might be obviously "acceptable" or "profitable".

On the one hand, I don't really care about Toei's profits - I'm not a shareholder! On the other hand, I think if they operated with such a fiscal, conservative perspective, Dragon Ball would probably have ended decades ago. It was a risk to age Goku up. It was a risk to change the csat so dramatically for most of DBZ. It was a risk to bring the franchise back with Battle of Gods! Sure, they do sometimes take the "safe" route - RoF and Broly, for example - but we should be glad they're not as conservative and "safe" as, say, Marvel or DC.

As for the idea that the Super anime was "the main product", now that Super is basically over I think its probably time to put this myth to bed. Like the original series, the Super anime was an adaptation of the manga, although one that got way farther ahead of the source material than I think anyone had hoped. Beyond that, I'm not sure it makes much sense to speak of a "main product", but if there has to be one for the Super era... I think it might be the films. They're certainly the most successful, creatively.

[GhostEmperorX]

Like the original series, the Super anime was an adaptation of the manga

Do you have a source on that? Because the Anime began on July 5th of 2018 and the Manga on August of the same year.

[ZeroNeonix]

The Super manga started as a promotional material, and evolved into its own thing. The anime was always well ahead of the manga until...well the anime ended. Any Super movies after haven't covered or even acknowledged the manga-original stories or characters.

[dbgtFO]

Like the original series, the Super anime was an adaptation of the manga

Do you have a source on that? Because the Anime began on July 5th of 2018 and the Manga on August of the same year.

2015
And the manga had its first chapter 20th of June 2015, before the anime's first episode.
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/super/chp-01/

[Skar]

Mate, don't you think it's weird that the producers didn't take the safe route? Coming back with Super 2 (including Toyotaro's stuff) would be way more acceptable and profitable than a short anime just to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the franchise.

I don't claim to know what Toriyama and Shuiesha intend to do since many predictions from fans the last few years were way off. I just remember Toyotaro saying he was going to be ahead of the anime after the ToP and his editor mentioning something about Moro getting a VA and appearing in video games. I assume they're telling the truth and know more than fans since they're still working for Shuiesha.

Daima happening during the 40th anniversery doesn't mean the manga arcs can never be adapted later. There are some examples of higher selling manga from Shuiesha taking over a decade to get an anime adaptation of their later arcs. I just think the argument that Shuiesha would have Toei bring back the anime with their own original arcs and ignore the ones Toriyama was involved with seems unlikely.

[GhostEmperorX]

2015
And the manga had its first chapter 20th of June 2015, before the anime's first episode.
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/super/chp-01/

My apologies, I made a typo in the date :/
And thanks, I stand corrected.

[Zephyr]

As for the idea that the Super anime was "the main product", now that Super is basically over I think its probably time to put this myth to bed. Like the original series, the Super anime was an adaptation of the manga, although one that got way farther ahead of the source material than I think anyone had hoped. Beyond that, I'm not sure it makes much sense to speak of a "main product", but if there has to be one for the Super era... I think it might be the films. They're certainly the most successful, creatively.

This isn't true, though. Toyotaro's Dragon Ball Super manga was described pretty much as soon as we learned about it in May of that year as a "comicalization" and an adaptation of the then-forthcoming anime series:

V-Jump Comicalizes the New “Dragon Ball” Anime From Akira Toriyama’s Story Draft

The new “Dragon Ball” anime series, Dragon Ball Super, from original author Akira Toriyama is receiving a comicalized serialization, which is set to start in the August 2015 issue of V-Jump (Shueisha) on June 20th. It will be written by Toyotarō, who worked on the comicalization of the Dragon Ball Z: Revival of “F” movie in this magazine.

The comic adaptation by Toyotarō-sensei starts this issue!!

Comment From Toyotarō-sensei
“Getting to see a new DB anime series every week makes me too happy! With this comicalization, I want to make my own small contribution to the excitement, so everyone please check out the manga, too!”

That the manga chapters got released first doesn't change this; we know how fucked up the production was behind the scenes.

As for a "main product", well, there are no films for things like the Champa, Black, and Tournament of Power arcs, and when video games adapt those things, they pull predominantly from the anime, don't they?

The way that the Super sub-forum was handled also speaks to this; it was the announcement of the anime that prompted its creation, and there were always episode-specific discussion threads (before most of them were lost). The manga didn't start getting chapter-specific discussion threads until Chapter 78, partway through the Granola arc. You could argue it was a mistake to wait so long to begin doing this, but it's still worth pointing out that they did wait so long to do this, and asking the rhetorical question of "why do you think they did?"

[Mr Baggins]

Super has no "main product" in its current state. It's just a brand, and one that was horrifically mishandled.

The TV series ended while other formats pushed on, nevermind all the godawful filler that clearly doesn't cohere with shit that Toriyama came up with. The manga skips the stories told in films, except when it doesn't. The movies, while pretty good, are best enjoyed as standalones and don't function all that well as an ongoing narrative.

When there's so little cohesion with DBS as a franchise that its own fanbase can't reach a consensus about the continuity, I can't in good conscience recommend it (as a whole, at least) to any casual viewer. You pick and choose what you like while understanding that most connective elements between the arcs/movies are tenuous at best. But given that its whole timeframe slots between Boo and EoZ, perhaps that's by design.

[SupremeKai25]

As for the idea that the Super anime was "the main product", now that Super is basically over I think its probably time to put this myth to bed. Like the original series, the Super anime was an adaptation of the manga, although one that got way farther ahead of the source material than I think anyone had hoped. Beyond that, I'm not sure it makes much sense to speak of a "main product", but if there has to be one for the Super era... I think it might be the films. They're certainly the most successful, creatively.

The Super Anime was never an "adaptation" of the Manga. The Anime overtook the Manga around Spring 2016 (end of U6 arc), and even before that, the Anime made its own version of the U6 arc without following the Manga's.

During the FT and TOP arcs, the Anime was ahead of the Manga and thus obviously it wasn't adapting it.

The Anime even did its own version of RoF, while the Manga didn't. Because the Anime didn't care about the Manga, it cared about Toriyama's bullet points.

[Zephyr]

To be honest, I think trying to identify a "main product" for "the Super era" as a whole is a fruitless endeavor so long as we ignore way in which the "revival era" we've been in since 2013 basically divides into three smaller "sub-eras": pre-Super (2013-2015), Super (2015-2018), and post-Super (2018-present). I say this because "Dragon Ball Super" was announced as a new anime series. It's where the name "Dragon Ball Super" comes from and why there is a "Dragon Ball Super" 'brand' at all. The manga adaptation, movie followups, and manga arc followups all bear the name of the TV anime.

Prior to "Dragon Ball Super" we were in a more primordial "sub-era" where the new "Dragon Ball Z" films were the main product, in comparison to Ooishi and Toyotaro's promotional adaptations. It should be clear that, while it was running, the TV anime was the "main product", and that time represents a distinct and second "sub-era". Now that the "main product" that the "Dragon Ball Super" name comes from has ended, we're in a different sort of "sub-era", characterized by movies and manga arcs picking up where the TV anime that "Dragon Ball Super" was announced as left off. Is there a "main product" of this "sub-era"? I think so, more or less.

Super has no "main product" in its current state.

In its current state, yeah. Maybe. Arguably. Kind of. Though, while I think it's less obvious than the time between 2015 and 2018 (thanks to each medium having exclusive stories), I don't think it's all that unclear. Between the two candidate "products" here, movies and manga, the latter notably gets practically zero merch, for some reason; and when it and the films share a story, the film is the source material and the manga is (again) acting as an adaptation.

Something isn't of a higher quality simply by virtue of being the "main product", but I think people are exaggerating the amount of ambiguity regarding what the "main product" was and is; I think that it's pretty clear that it's never been Toyotaro's "comicalizations" or his manga-exclusive sequel arcs.

And to make this post (relatively) on topic, "Dragon Ball Daima", which has been announced as a new anime series, seemingly represents a fourth "sub-era" of this ongoing "revival era". If Toyotaro ends up drawing a "Dragon Ball Daima" manga, it will more than likely be a "comicalization"/adaptation of the anime series, even if "Daima" chapters release before "Daima" episodes.

[Mr Baggins]

I think people are exaggerating the amount of ambiguity regarding what the "main product" was and is

I disagree. The manga, especially following the Tournament of Power, has accrued some pretty heavy advertising within both Japan and the official Dragon Ball website alike. The argument that there's no ambiguity in terms of which aspects of the brand specifically gets pushed by Shueisha doesn't fly when the manga regularly gets more online exposure than literally anything else that is Super-related right now.

And before someone chimes in that this is because there's nothing else going on with the other mediums currently, that's already a concession that it isn't generally functioning as an adaptation either. The manga is Super just like the anime is Super just like the movies are Super. It's a brand the license holders obviously want you, the audience, to consume.

The merch argument also applies equally to other big-name shonen franchises. One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, MHA, etc. get very little if any merchandise for their arcs until the animated content covers that material, even if it's years behind.

[Zephyr]

The argument that there's no ambiguity in terms of which aspects of the brand specifically gets pushed by Shueisha doesn't fly

I said that the amount of ambiguity is exaggerated, not that there is none. It's not as difficult to disambiguate here as one might think, but some disambiguation is certainly called for now in a way that there wasn't from 2015 to 2018.

And of course Shueisha is going to push its own manga. A question worth pursuing is what gets pushed more, by the relevant parties in general, during a film's active promotional and hype period? Anecdotally, it certainly felt to me like Broly and Super Hero were treated as the main attractions online as trailers dropped and they got released, but that's just anecdotally. Not sure what data you'd need to get a more objective comparison, but it could be neat to see.

[Mr Baggins]

I said that the amount of ambiguity is exaggerated, not that there is none.

I'd say that's fretting a bit much over the specifics and that it's presently about as ambiguous as you can get. There's something to be said about not only the manga's routine exposure on the website and official socials like Twitter, but also the fact that it's consistently grouped with the original manga whenever there's an article on the site discussing mainline continuity. It's clear that Shueisha, at least presently, wants Toyotaro's work to be as acknowledged as anything else in the brand. They want it to be a big deal.

Anecdotally, Super Hero's marketing was relatively light. Merchandise and general format preferences probably push its overall presence a bit higher than the manga's, but I'd argue that during the pre-release period they were on roughly the same footing.

I will mention that I don't care for the idea of a Daima manga adaptation. Going forward, I think there needs to be a stronger, more unified vision for Dragon Ball than whatever Super had.

[WittyUsername]

Even if you want to argue that the DBS anime was not meant to be the “main product,” I don’t understand how anyone could suggest that it was adapting the manga. It clearly wasn’t. The anime and the manga were both adapting Akira Toriyama’s outlines, and gave their own respective spins on them. That’s why the anime ended over half a year before the manga was even finished with the Tournament of Power.

[capsulecorp]

Interesting points. After a little more thought, I think this is worth emphasizing:

There's something to be said about not only the manga's routine exposure on the website and official socials like Twitter, but also the fact that it's consistently grouped with the original manga whenever there's an article on the site discussing mainline continuity. It's clear that Shueisha, at least presently, wants Toyotaro's work to be as acknowledged as anything else in the brand. They want it to be a big deal.

I think I mispoke; adaptation isn't (always) the point. Rather, in the DBS era, the manga and the anime were both adaptations, or interpretations, of Toriyama's notes. We can never really know everything that goes on behind the scenes but, for me, the results speak for themselves... particularly given that we do know Toriyama was very unhappy with at least significant aspects of the anime. And, of course, the manga is still running while the anime has long been abandoned.

But then again, both the anime and the manga did adapt the films, some of which are massively popular, brilliantly crafted, creatively inspired and, of course, seem to have enjoyed much more direct involvement from Toriyama himself. Maybe the films really were "the main product" all along!

But, no, let's just be real - the idea of a "main product" is exactly the sort of corporate-focused, profit-focused marketing-speak that represents some of the worst aspects of fandom. Do you think of and appreciate Dragon Ball as a "product"? I sure don't.




....but anyway, this is supposed to be a thread about Daima, sorry about the distraction!

[JulieYBM]

I wonder how often we'll get Son Gokuu using the Kamehame-Ha? I know that there won't be a ton of ki blasts, but surely we'll have more than one or two Kamehame-Ha in the series, what with the way that it has been traditionally rolled out unceremoniously in animated adaptions of the series.

Furthermore, I'm curious as to how the digital post-processing will be done on it.

[Plague-Memories]

I'm not exactly excited for this but I'm curious so I'll definitely check it out.

[dragonballhero]

Given the locations we've seen so far, do we think might be getting a Star Wars-like scene at that restaurant location? The cantina scene, I mean.

[ZeroNeonix]

Given the locations we've seen so far, do we think might be getting a Star Wars-like scene at that restaurant location? The cantina scene, I mean.

"Graaa..."

"He's saying he don't like you. I don't like you neither."

Vegeta: "Touch me again and I'm gonna shoot first."

[sangofe]

Given the locations we've seen so far, do we think might be getting a Star Wars-like scene at that restaurant location? The cantina scene, I mean.

"Graaa..."

"He's saying he don't like you. I don't like you neither."

Vegeta: "Touch me again and I'm gonna shoot first."

Did you make the grammatical error on purpose? Am I missing the joke?