Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

[Basaku]

According to the 30th anniversary "Super History Book" interview, Toriyama says he aged up Goku to make him easier to draw for fight scenes since he decided to do what Torishima told him to and make the series more fight-centric.

I bring this up because you insinuate that Toriyama aged up Goku because he was concerned people would stop watching (more like reading) if he remained a kid when that's not really the case- It was a decision that stemmed from the larger decision to shift the series from road-trip comedy to battle manga. As far as we know, aging up Goku had nothing to do with Toriyama worrying about fans not wanting to watch Goku be a kid anymore.

Interviewer: I see. So then after that, Goku grew up…

Toriyama: I got a lot of pushback on that at the time. Apparently in shōnen manga changing what the main character looked like was a big no-no, but I didn’t care about that. His head/body ratio made fighting hard, so I said that if the series was going to start focusing more on battles, then I needed to make him an adult. But this really shocked them: “The series has finally gotten popular, and now you want to go and change everything!” That was the kind of reaction I got.

If anything, Toriyama indicates that the series had just become popular when he decided to do that.

Sure but that's one way to phrase the whole thing around. Another could be the realization that a fighting series inherently demands a more mature character design than with one where the MC looks like a baby. But that's not as good of a view for Toriyama to present himself under, and we know he likes to portray himself as NEVER thinking about what the readers want/expect and always going against the grain/maverick/yada yada. Sure it could be just the drawing issue, but it could also be the natural consequence of a shift in the tone and the main difection of the franchise he knew he would have to take once he already agreed to the change.

I mean...why care? I don't get paid to worry about the franchise's financials, and I'm busy doing all my worrying about my bills (anyone wanna buy me a house so I can recover from my health issues in peace and quiet? Or maybe buy me a boob job?). So far there's nothing offensive about Daima that I feel like I need to worry about. I think it's important to have a flexible view on ideas in the arts so long as they don't actually harm anyone, which "Gokuu and friends get turned into kids" is just...not offensive. Blooma getting sexually assaulted for the nth time is offensive.

I don't care THAT much and my life doesn't depend on it, but we're talking an entertainment business, not charity or an indie manga. So a success or failure of Daima is likely to influence the future of the franchise and since I like it and would like to see me then yep, I do and will care a bit about the financials.

[Majin Buu]

Sure but that's one way to phrase the whole thing around. Another could be the realization that a fighting series inherently demands a more mature character design than with one where the MC looks like a baby.

This is a stretch. I think if Toriyama had had anything like that on his mind dictating his decision, he would have said something to that effect in the interview, but he didn't.

Sure it could be just the drawing issue

I'm personally confident that it is, given the stated reason he gave for having later created Super Saiyan (IE, to give himself and his assistants a break from having to ink in Goku's black hair so damn much).

We know the guy is willing to make big decisions for mundane practical reasons because he's admitted to it before.

but it could also be the natural consequence of a shift in the tone and the main difection of the franchise he knew he would have to take once he already agreed to the change.

It was a consequence of the decision to shift the series from road-trip comedy to battle manga, like I basically said earlier. He concluded that Goku was difficult to draw for fight scenes as a kid so he aged him up to make him easier to draw for that.

These are the man's direct words on the subject. I don't think there's any hidden meaning here that makes your initial claim any more accurate.

[Basaku]

This is a stretch. I think if Toriyama had had anything like that on his mind dictating his decision, he would have said something to that effect in the interview, but he didn't.

That wouldn't really fit into the way we know he likes to portray himself as publicly so I guess the actual/better question is whether we believe Toriyama trully never ever does think about issues of success, popularity "what will be the readers' reaction be and what could hurt the franchise". I myself am more in the camp of "yeah, sometimes even he thinks about that that, esp in the 80s-90s". But if someone thinks he never did nor does nowadays they're obviously free to interpret it this way

[Cure Dragon 255]

For a brief moment as even Toriyama quickly realized back then he needs to age him or people will check out

According to the 30th anniversary "Super History Book" interview, Toriyama says he aged up Goku to make him easier to draw for fight scenes since he decided to do what Torishima told him to and make the series more fight-centric.

I bring this up because you insinuate that Toriyama aged up Goku because he was concerned people would stop watching (more like reading) if he remained a kid when that's not really the case- It was a decision that stemmed from the larger decision to shift the series from road-trip comedy to battle manga. As far as we know, aging up Goku had nothing to do with Toriyama worrying about fans not wanting to watch Goku be a kid anymore.

Interviewer: I see. So then after that, Goku grew up…

Toriyama: I got a lot of pushback on that at the time. Apparently in shōnen manga changing what the main character looked like was a big no-no, but I didn’t care about that. His head/body ratio made fighting hard, so I said that if the series was going to start focusing more on battles, then I needed to make him an adult. But this really shocked them: “The series has finally gotten popular, and now you want to go and change everything!” That was the kind of reaction I got.

If anything, Toriyama indicates that the series had just become popular when he decided to do that.

Yeah in fact Kid Goku was popular and the editor at Shonen Jump Kazuhiko Torishima was ABSOLUTELY AGAINS Toriyama aging up Goku because he knew Adult Goku would be an entirely new character to audiences but relented because Toriyama's arguments were sound.

“In addition to all this, Toriyama was asking to change the character design for Goku, from the cuter proportions to something taller and more muscular. When I heard this for the first time, I argued a lot with him about it. This was because I thought the most important thing with boy's comics was to have the main character resonate with the readers. So if you switched the character's proportions then that would be an all-new character to the readers. My first reaction to all this was to say no to changing Goku but Toriyama's explanation was very logical and the only option was for me to agree. That explanation was that since the battles were becoming increasingly serious in the manga and you had a proper villain in the form of Piccolo who was taller than Goku. All this meant that if had to draw a serious battle you needed to show Goku's muscles, as well as strong actions for his punching and kicking. So in order to draw these kinds of actions in this context, it meant that Goku needed to have taller proportions and more muscles. This was also something that Toriyama had to do anyway in previous episodes of the manga, as he would be forced to distort the proportions of Goku to make the fights work. What was more, after each battle Goku would return to his cuter smaller form. These kinds of discrepancies really annoyed Toriyama. So his response was simply that I would approve these changes to Goku or that he would stop making Dragon Ball.

[Majin Buu]

That wouldn't really fit into the way we know he likes to portray himself as publicly so I guess the actual/better question is whether we believe Toriyama trully never ever does think about issues of success, popularity "what will be the readers' reaction be and what could hurt the franchise". I myself am more in the camp of "yeah, sometimes even he thinks about that that, esp in the 80s-90s". But if someone thinks he never did nor does nowadays they're obviously free to interpret it this way

Toriyama tends to be pretty straightforward about his process in interviews so I don't think there's anything to interpret here. If he took audience reactions into account here he would have said it, because he does say it whenever that is the case (Like with Vegeta's debut and his original intentions to kill him off after that, which didn't happen -until later- because of fan reactions; or his admission that he did DBS: Broly because he was told Broly is popular overseas).

Which is another thing: It's not either or. Sometimes he takes audience reactions into account and sometimes he doesn't. This was simply one instance where he didn't based on what he himself has said on the subject.

[TobyS]

Does anyone else think maybe Daima will be set post EOZ.

They are running out of gap to put stories in and Toriyama sorta regretted aging the cast up so much. Maybe this is the solution, either for one story arc or possibly even having them reage but not as old to "fix" the mistake but allow use of the new generation at the same time?

Any thoughts.

[JulieYBM]

Does anyone else think maybe Daima will be set post EOZ.

They are running out of gap to put stories in and Toriyama sorta regretted aging the cast up so much. Maybe this is the solution, either for one story arc or possibly even having them reage but not as old to "fix" the mistake but allow use of the new generation at the same time?

Any thoughts.

I kind of doubt it, if only because the character outfits and settings from the trailer appear to be the same as those used in Kami to Kami, so I wouldn't be surprised if the series is either set in the immediate aftermath or in the four years between it and the Majin Buu arc.

[Basaku]

Which is another thing: It's not either or. Sometimes he takes audience reactions into account and sometimes he doesn't. This was simply one instance where he didn't based on what he himself has said on the subject.

Perhaps. But I'll retain a dose of scepticism esp when it comes to authors selectively presenting the events only in favourable for them light

Does anyone else think maybe Daima will be set post EOZ.

Nope. What would even be the point of it if most of the story, presumably, has the cast in baby form anyway? I could see them moving past EOZ in Super 2/3/14 or whatever else comes in the future as fans really want and demand more and more to make it happen, but for an anniversary special series I don't see the benefits of it

[Hellspawn28]

Does anyone else think maybe Daima will be set post EOZ.

They are running out of gap to put stories in and Toriyama sorta regretted aging the cast up so much. Maybe this is the solution, either for one story arc or possibly even having them reage but not as old to "fix" the mistake but allow use of the new generation at the same time?

Any thoughts.

Signs seem to suggest that it's before Beerus showing up on Earth. Seeing that Vegeta and Goku are practicing on Earth rather than Beerus planet. Shin and Kibito mostly defuse after the spell was casted which is why they look so shock to see each other. So far, we haven't seen Beerus, Whis, Gamma 1, etc anywhere.

[Zephyr]

They were practicing on Earth at the beginning of Broly.

[YamiGoku]

I hope Daima is good but the more time it passes the more pessimist I get, the info we have makes me thing that Daima is going to be just a litlle adventure with an uncertain timeline and (OMG) super good animation, and that would be fine with me if the anime was airing or if we would have another movie in 2024, but all this time wasted and all this waiting just for a little adventure? that is not worth it for me

If they dont want to do a super 2 then fine, but nothing that we know so far gives me hope that this is going to be even remotely as hype as super, YES! I know super has a bad reputation but it has a lot of cool things in it, if Daima is just a fun adventure with OMG SUPER COOL ANIMATION, then I dont care, and a lot of DBZ fans and a lot of super fans will also not care, yes there are people who will like it, maybe a lot of them will like it, but why not make something for everyone?

I know there's always going to be someone that will not like it, but why not make something with a larger appeal to most DB fans? like, why not they just pass the torch to the next generation and start over, lets us free of this period of time, If Toriyama thinks the cast is too old then retire the cast and continue with the kids, Dragon Ball was so cool when it had progression of time, I'm a Super defender but 1 series in the 10 year gap was more than enough, and now we are getting another one...

[shadd21]

can only assume that this is sarcasm, right? Since I can't imagine Kid Vegeta on his knees, coughing up blood in front of some enemy myself.

Versus Super which had next to no blood and was bound by tv censorship, This has a honestly has a highly likelihood of happening in Daima

[Lukmendes]

Not saying it was well executed, I'm saying it was the intention.
Either way, Daima seems to be going the GT route of deaging the characters to nerf them.
Whatever logic Daima uses, if they take away the teleportation technique, I won't complain about its absence.

I honestly do wonder how much the characters will be getting nerfed, wouldn't be surprised if Toriyama decided to de-age everyone just because he felt like having a story with everyone as kids...

Does anyone else think maybe Daima will be set post EOZ.

They are running out of gap to put stories in and Toriyama sorta regretted aging the cast up so much. Maybe this is the solution, either for one story arc or possibly even having them reage but not as old to "fix" the mistake but allow use of the new generation at the same time?

Any thoughts.

I've wondered about that, but it's probably not the case.

If it is the case though, then at the very least we'll get rid of the EoZ's status quo and maybe have something weird happen for an arc or two.

[capsulecorp]

if Daima is just a fun adventure with OMG SUPER COOL ANIMATION, then I dont care, and a lot of DBZ fans and a lot of super fans will also not care

Isn't that basically what the DBS films are? We love those!

[Basaku]

I hope Daima is good but the more time it passes the more pessimist I get, the info we have makes me thing that Daima is going to be just a litlle adventure with an uncertain timeline and (OMG) super good animation, and that would be fine with me if the anime was airing or if we would have another movie in 2024, but all this time wasted and all this waiting just for a little adventure? that is not worth it for me

If they dont want to do a super 2 then fine, but nothing that we know so far gives me hope that this is going to be even remotely as hype as super, YES! I know super has a bad reputation but it has a lot of cool things in it, if Daima is just a fun adventure with OMG SUPER COOL ANIMATION, then I dont care, and a lot of DBZ fans and a lot of super fans will also not care, yes there are people who will like it, maybe a lot of them will like it, but why not make something for everyone?

I know there's always going to be someone that will not like it, but why not make something with a larger appeal to most DB fans? like, why not they just pass the torch to the next generation and start over, lets us free of this period of time, If Toriyama thinks the cast is too old then retire the cast and continue with the kids, Dragon Ball was so cool when it had progression of time, I'm a Super defender but 1 series in the 10 year gap was more than enough, and now we are getting another one...

TBH, the lenght of preproduction, talent and resources allocated to this irks me a bit too because somehow, I just DON'T see Toei giving Super 2 the same 2-3 years of prep and top talent too...

Let's say they do. That would mean Super 2 wouldnt be out till... 2028? I mean c'mon.

[MasenkoHA]

I hope Daima is good but the more time it passes the more pessimist I get, the info we have makes me thing that Daima is going to be just a litlle adventure with an uncertain timeline and (OMG) super good animation, and that would be fine with me if the anime was airing or if we would have another movie in 2024, but all this time wasted and all this waiting just for a little adventure? that is not worth it for me

If they dont want to do a super 2 then fine, but nothing that we know so far gives me hope that this is going to be even remotely as hype as super, YES! I know super has a bad reputation but it has a lot of cool things in it, if Daima is just a fun adventure with OMG SUPER COOL ANIMATION, then I dont care, and a lot of DBZ fans and a lot of super fans will also not care, yes there are people who will like it, maybe a lot of them will like it, but why not make something for everyone?

I know there's always going to be someone that will not like it, but why not make something with a larger appeal to most DB fans? like, why not they just pass the torch to the next generation and start over, lets us free of this period of time, If Toriyama thinks the cast is too old then retire the cast and continue with the kids, Dragon Ball was so cool when it had progression of time, I'm a Super defender but 1 series in the 10 year gap was more than enough, and now we are getting another one...

TBH, the lenght of preproduction, talent and resources allocated to this irks me a bit too because somehow, I just DON'T see Toei giving Super 2 the same 2-3 years of prep and top talent too...

Let's say they do. That would mean Super 2 wouldnt be out till... 2028? I mean c'mon.

I mean there's not gonna be a Super 2, so there's that

[Basaku]

I mean there's not gonna be a Super 2, so there's that

Sure, that's one possibility. Afterall for every 100 companies in the world focused on making money there's bound to be that odd one looking at free billions lying on the and instead of picking 'em up just walking past by.

But assuming it won't be Toei then the question of "how much longer should Super can stay off air" and how an appropirate prep time would fit into it on top of that is start to be more and more pressing. Been 6 years since the show ended.

[MasenkoHA]

I mean there's not gonna be a Super 2, so there's that

Sure, that's one possibility. Afterall for every 100 companies in the world focused on making money there's bound to be that odd one looking at free billions lying on the and instead of picking 'em up just walking past by.

This analogy would only make sense if only Dragon Ball Super made them money and not y''know Dragon Ball in general. They're not losing money by moving on from the Super brand specifically.

It amazes me we haven't had a Super tv series since 2018 we have a brand new Dragon Ball series coming this year and people are still like "Dragon Ball Super season 2 is totally still happening y'all "

[Basaku]

This analogy would only make sense if only Dragon Ball Super made them money and not y''know Dragon Ball in general. They're not losing money by moving on from the Super brand specifically.

And how do you think that money happened to be? Of course the specific sub-brand doesn't matter much, may as well been called Dragon Ball Pinkelephant, but there's absolutely no discussion what catapulted the explosion of modern popularity of the entire franchise and thus the sales of merch and licensins - and that was the new TV series and new movies covering the main new storyline.

It amazes me we haven't had a Super tv series since 2018 we have a brand new Dragon Ball series coming this year and people are still like "Dragon Ball Super season 2 is totally still happening y'all "

We have a web series special where the cast is turned into babies. Are you saying Daima will be treated by the audiences worldwide as the same 'main course' and franchise-progressing, storytelling vehicle as DB/DBZ/DBS/Movies were?

[Vegard Aune]

It amazes me we haven't had a Super tv series since 2018 we have a brand new Dragon Ball series coming this year and people are still like "Dragon Ball Super season 2 is totally still happening y'all "

Thing is, between the manga and the movies, Super has never really gone away. And at this point it feels like its additions to the canon have become rather too substantial to just stop dealing with, even though it looks like Daima is literally doing that, with allegedly no sign of Beerus anywhere. Yeah, yeah, Beerus technically predates Super by two years, but honestly, I find it hard to see Battle of Gods now as anything but "the start of Super" and by extension that Beerus is a DBS character first and foremost.

Though yeah, at this point it is starting to feel rather dubious if there will ever be more of the DBS TV show. Will the next Dragon Ball movie be labeled as part of Daima? Possibly. I suppose we can only wait and see.