The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Hugo Boss]

The scan shows each being Ginyu force level individually, then becoming Freeza level individually, the kids beat them up but are weaker than Goku who is weaker than Freeza.

It doesn’t specifically frame Abo’s strength as equal to Freeza's in his unfused state. Presumably it’s talking about his merged state, since this is when he exhibits strength requiring Super Saiyan to beat. The rest of the description also includes the merging technique as part of Abo’s skills and Tarble doesn’t seem to ignore it when the kids are fighting the siblings. So, if this was a separate thing it would be mentioned.

The exact events of the Jsat are no longer canon, both because of the strength contradiction, the anime specific Satan "paying Goku off" continuity issue, the manga specific continuity issue where filler character Gregory's appears, and the instant unfusion and refusion.

1. Vegeta just "has a brother"
2. Abo and Cado exist/ed and were compared to Granolah at some point in an interview.
That's all we can reliably take from it. BOG Trumps JSAT in terms of Primacy and author involvement, it's not that deep and I'm not gonna get involved in this any longer.

A) I don’t see any power level contradiction;
B) Yeah, this contradicts the first episode of Super, as Chi Chi was not deterred by Mr. Satan’s money in the special;
C) Gregory appears in Super tv anime;
D) The fusion time duration was abbreviated only for the audience (taka taka taka).

I think you are too hung on minor issues. For me, Toriyama providing the story draft as he did for Toei and Toyotaro in Super and even supervising the JSAT manga is enough.

[ZombieVito]

Future Krillin vs Goku [Can only use default Kaioken; Ginyu arc].
Future Piccolo vs Goku [Can only use default Kaioken; Mecha arc].
Future Vegeta [Super Saiyan] vs Goku [Super Saiyan; Mecha arc].

[TobyS]

Future Krillin vs Goku [Can only use default Kaioken; Ginyu arc].
Future Piccolo vs Goku [Can only use default Kaioken; Mecha arc].
Future Vegeta [Super Saiyan] vs Goku [Super Saiyan; Mecha arc].

No idea Goku was quite far ahead, no one surpases Freeza, I'm not sure Kuririn could have passed earlier Goku without Kaioken yet with no warning to train.

Piccolo Ten and Goku keep training even without a reason, so Piccolo should still be really strong, just not as much. Piccolo probably needs SS to be beaten.

Canonically I don't think Vegeta had ss, and he's demotivated. Goku is still used as the measuring stick, but this could be Goku who trained till he got sick. I see Goku taking it still, but it's tough.

[Koitsukai]

Future Krillin vs Goku [Can only use default Kaioken; Ginyu arc].
Future Piccolo vs Goku [Can only use default Kaioken; Mecha arc].
Future Vegeta [Super Saiyan] vs Goku [Super Saiyan; Mecha arc].

1) The official numbers have Krilin losing greatly to even base Goku, but I don't think he would've been able to be so nosy to Freeza. I think he pushes Goku to use Kaioken and loses.
2) I think Goku takes this one, without Kaioken this time. As close as their first fight.
3) Geets. With or without the android threat, his mind was set on surpassing Goku and becoming a SS. And he actually managed to surpass Android arc Goku, so Mecha arc Goku is toasted.

--

1)a) Post-senzu Saiyan arc Goku (only regular KK allowed) vs Saiyan saga Vegeta
Goku after recovering from his fight, right before boarding the ship to Namek, before mastering KK. Can he stand up to the Vegeta that he just fought?

b) If we remove the KK restrictions, could he take on Early Namek arc Vegeta? (the one that beat Kiwi and Dodoria but capped at Zarbon). This would be the actual rematch that Freeza's intentions postponed. I assume Vegeta wouldn't turn ape if he doesn't have to, he doesn't like the form.

2) Super Perfect Cell vs Majin Buu (the fat one, no absorptions, no turning into Super Buu either)
Yeah, he'll do worse than Vegeta, but how would he react to Buu? would he bulk up, losing his mind? would he self destruct and hope, if that’s not enough to kill Buu, that he’ll come back stronger like vs Gohan? and would that be enough?
Or would he be a little more collected and try the Kaioken? the genki dama? could he absorb the genki dama like Goku vs Android 13? so, does Cell have resources to overcome that power gap? oh, does he know the mafuba? would that work?
According to his personality, would he go nuts and try to destroy everything again or, if everything fails, would he now try to escape and live to fight another day?

3) Ikari Broly vs RoF SSB Goku, RoF SSB Vegeta.
Ikari Broly is a bit below post ToP SSB Goku, but what about the first SSB ever x2?

4) How strong was SS Goku after absorbing the genki dama vs Android 13? who could he take from later arcs with that power up? could Hirudegan survive him?

5) How strong did Goku get after the friendship power up vs Z Broly? who would be strong enough to catch/dodge that punch? Super Buu?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Future Krillin vs Goku [Can only use default Kaioken; Ginyu arc].
Future Piccolo vs Goku [Can only use default Kaioken; Mecha arc].
Future Vegeta [Super Saiyan] vs Goku [Super Saiyan; Mecha arc].

Goku, but it's close until he turns on KK. On Namek Kuririn was 75k and rising, so I can see him being at least 100k. This is gonna be like the 2nd part of Goku vs Nappa.

I think Vegeta and Piccolo are on Namek Goku's level in the Mecha Saga, and Piccolo is a bit stronger in the Future. Goku wins via KK.

Daizenshuu 6 says Future Vegeta = Future Goku. Future Goku is >= Yardrat Goku, so Vegeta wins.

1)a) Post-senzu Saiyan arc Goku (only regular KK allowed) vs Saiyan saga Vegeta
Goku after recovering from his fight, right before boarding the ship to Namek, before mastering KK. Can he stand up to the Vegeta that he just fought?

b) If we remove the KK restrictions, could he take on Early Namek arc Vegeta? (the one that beat Kiwi and Dodoria but capped at Zarbon). This would be the actual rematch that Freeza's intentions postponed. I assume Vegeta wouldn't turn ape if he doesn't have to, he doesn't like the form.

2) Super Perfect Cell vs Majin Buu (the fat one, no absorptions, no turning into Super Buu either)
Yeah, he'll do worse than Vegeta, but how would he react to Buu? would he bulk up, losing his mind? would he self destruct and hope, if that’s not enough to kill Buu, that he’ll come back stronger like vs Gohan? and would that be enough?
Or would he be a little more collected and try the Kaioken? the genki dama? could he absorb the genki dama like Goku vs Android 13? so, does Cell have resources to overcome that power gap? oh, does he know the mafuba? would that work?
According to his personality, would he go nuts and try to destroy everything again or, if everything fails, would he now try to escape and live to fight another day?

3) Ikari Broly vs RoF SSB Goku, RoF SSB Vegeta.
Ikari Broly is a bit below post ToP SSB Goku, but what about the first SSB ever x2?

4) How strong was SS Goku after absorbing the genki dama vs Android 13? who could he take from later arcs with that power up? could Hirudegan survive him?

5) How strong did Goku get after the friendship power up vs Z Broly? who would be strong enough to catch/dodge that punch? Super Buu?

1a) Goku wins. I have him at 10-12k range (He was more injured than Vegeta so his Zenkai might be bigger), so he either mid diffs or stomps.

1b) Goku wins, the fight is more or less a repeat of their first fight but a bit closer. Either KKx3 Goku kills Vegeta before the beam struggle (Which Vegeta might not even try since he knows Goku can repel it now), or KKx4 Goku kills him in the beam struggle, or the Genki-Dama kills Vegeta.

2) I think Cell's gonna lose his shit too. He has Vegeta and Freeza's ego, and he thinks he's the perfect being. To see some childish bubble gum beating him would make him lose his marbles. If Cell tries destroying the planet I think Boo will take him a bit more seriously and eat him. Not sure if Boo would save the planet or just be destroyed and regenerate, though. If Babidi's there I think Boo deflects the KHH.

If Cell gets to try buff then self destruction, I'm not sure if he gets a zenkai. Zenkais are weird. But if it's not enough, Cell should run and train. That's what Imperfect Cell did. He only came back for Gohan because they were close.

3) Even the most minimalistic guy would give it to Broly. Even if we ignore the anime asspulls and manga PSSJBs, I think Goku and Vegeta improved a good deal throughout Super. Remember, them turning the tables on Black is a key plot point. I think Broly vs SSJR Black would be a good match, however.

4) I just give him a 10x power up. He's on his Cell Games level.

5) There's a guide somewhere that says Goku got 1,000x stronger. He reaches Super/GT levels if that's true.

[ZombieVito]

Daizenshuu 6 says Future Vegeta = Future Goku. Future Goku is >= Yardrat Goku, so Vegeta wins.

Wait, for real? Awesome, I always wondered how strong Future Vegeta was.

[nineko]

Say that Freeza and Coola fuse (at their stongest Z levels, e.g. "sliced by Trunks" for the former, mecha for the latter), can Gogeta (fusion reborn level) defeat them? Does Gogeta need Super Saiyan 1/2/3? Even I think 4 would be overkill (not to mention incompatible with the Z timeframe).

Now, the same, but with golden Freeza and golden Coola (once again fused), does Gogeta need Blue? Or even Blue Kaioh Ken?

[Koitsukai]

Say that Freeza and Coola fuse (at their stongest Z levels, e.g. "sliced by Trunks" for the former, mecha for the latter), can Gogeta (fusion reborn level) defeat them? Does Gogeta need Super Saiyan 1/2/3? Even I think 4 would be overkill (not to mention incompatible with the Z timeframe).

Now, the same, but with golden Freeza and golden Coola (once again fused), does Gogeta need Blue? Or even Blue Kaioh Ken?

That would be like a Namek arc SS and a android arc SS fusion, much stronger than the fusees from Fusion Reborn, but Gogeta was able to transform, while Frooler wouldn't.
So, definitely above base Gogeta, but I guess Super Gogeta should be enough, don't know if FP is needed but definitely more than what he used vs Janemba.

Golden Frooler is a different beast altogether. He should be stronger than Fused Zamasu, I'm assuming is the strongest Golden Freeza to date, ToP/Broly movie, so above Black, while Metal Cooler*, I'll pretend he is just like Golden Freeza, also above Black and of course Zamasu.
It seems KK wouldn't cut it, I think Gogeta needs an Ultra form.

*based on SDBH he was beating SS3 Cumber, who was too much for KKx10SSB Vegito, so him alone might be enough to face Gogeta, so I'll go with a less broken GM Cooler. I don't think GM Cooler was meant to be that OP, but thats SDBH for ya.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Wait, for real? Awesome, I always wondered how strong Future Vegeta was.

Yeah.

Even Vegeta, whose ability was on par with Goku, is defeated by the artificial humans!

It's weird though because in the OVA Gohan thinks he can beat the androids both times, but I guess he just didn't know how strong Vegeta was? Huge Ki's should be felt all over the planet (e.g. Nappa), but nobody ever sensed SSJ Goku or Vegeta in the 3 years training either.

Say that Freeza and Coola fuse (at their stongest Z levels, e.g. "sliced by Trunks" for the former, mecha for the latter), can Gogeta (fusion reborn level) defeat them? Does Gogeta need Super Saiyan 1/2/3? Even I think 4 would be overkill (not to mention incompatible with the Z timeframe).

Now, the same, but with golden Freeza and golden Coola (once again fused), does Gogeta need Blue? Or even Blue Kaioh Ken?

Gogeta should win with either SSJ or SSJ2. Goku and Vegeta are at least as strong as Freeza individually.

Not sure how strong Golden Cooler is, but I guess he's somewhat above Golden Freeza? Gogeta Blue would need Kaio-Ken to pull it off.

[ZombieVito]

Wait, for real? Awesome, I always wondered how strong Future Vegeta was.

Yeah.

Even Vegeta, whose ability was on par with Goku, is defeated by the artificial humans!

It's weird though because in the OVA Gohan thinks he can beat the androids both times, but I guess he just didn't know how strong Vegeta was? Huge Ki's should be felt all over the planet (e.g. Nappa), but nobody ever sensed SSJ Goku or Vegeta in the 3 years training either.

Thanks.

So Future Vegeta at bare minimum is equal to Yadart Goku. Nice to know that.

I guess Gohan was K.O when Vegeta fought.

[Hellspawn28]

5th form Coola and Cyborg Freeza vs. Dr. Gero and #19

No outside help

Who wins?

[TobyS]

5th form Coola and Cyborg Freeza vs. Dr. Gero and #19

No outside help

Who wins?

The androids are stronger to start with despite people wanking the frosts and not liking how androids made on earth are stronger.

Regardless they absorb enough energy to kill them easily even if they did start out weaker.

[Koitsukai]

1) Broly movie Veku
Who can the fat fusion(or even the skinny one, if there's any difference) defeat from DBZ?

2) How about a EoZ version of Veku, with the fusees at their strongest? is there any major fighter they could take out even if they screw it up? Can they beat Namek Freeza or even the androids? or is a fail fusion still too weak no matter how strong the fusees are?

[ZombieVito]

1) Broly movie Veku
Who can the fat fusion(or even the skinny one, if there's any difference) defeat from DBZ?

2) How about a EoZ version of Veku, with the fusees at their strongest? is there any major fighter they could take out even if they screw it up? Can they beat Namek Freeza or even the androids? or is a fail fusion still too weak no matter how strong the fusees are?

1) Considering how strong Vegeta and Goku got in the ToP. He probably still solos Z (Vegetto aside).
2) Same as above.

[Noah]

New match:

- Krillin (Android arc) vs. Tullece (could eat one or two fruits of the Tree of Might)

[TobyS]

New match:

- Krillin (Android arc) vs. Tullece (could eat one or two fruits of the Tree of Might)

If the fruit put him above the likes of Freeza, which was kind of the whole point, then Kuririn can't do it.

I think Goku was using above a kkx4 to win right? So yeah still above Kuririns reach unless he gets lucky with a kienzan

[Almighty Majin]

Current Goten and Trunks (Post-Super Hero arc) enter the ToP who is the strongest contestant they defeat?

1. Base Goten and Trunks
2. SSJ Goten and Trunks
3. Base Gotenks
4. SSJ Gotenks
5. SSJ3 Gotenks

[ZombieVito]

Current Goten and Trunks (Post-Super Hero arc) enter the ToP who is the strongest contestant they defeat?

1. Base Goten and Trunks
2. SSJ Goten and Trunks
3. Base Gotenks
4. SSJ Gotenks
5. SSJ3 Gotenks

1.- Everyone the humans defeated by strength (Not Mafuba).
2.- Lavender and maybe some weak U9 guys.
3.- Same as 1.
4.- Maybe Basil and some of the strong U9 guys.
5.- Some base tier fighters like Rubalt. Maybe even Obuni if Gotenks can figure out the feint technique.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Current Goten and Trunks (Post-Super Hero arc) enter the ToP who is the strongest contestant they defeat?

1. Base Goten and Trunks
2. SSJ Goten and Trunks
3. Base Gotenks
4. SSJ Gotenks
5. SSJ3 Gotenks

I imagine the boys are about as strong as Goku was in the ToP.

1. Ribrianne and co.
2. Frost, or SSJ Caulifla (who's their equal) if they're fighting together.
3. Dyspo? I'm not sure if he has super speed in the manga.
4. Anilaza or Initial LSSJ Kale.
5. SSJ Kefla, maybe Toppo.

In the manga, SSJ Boys only manage to beat U9 and

New match:

- Krillin (Android arc) vs. Tullece (could eat one or two fruits of the Tree of Might)

Tullece peaks at 2nd form Freeza level. I think Kuririn's stronger than that.

1) Broly movie Veku
Who can the fat fusion(or even the skinny one, if there's any difference) defeat from DBZ?

2) How about a EoZ version of Veku, with the fusees at their strongest? is there any major fighter they could take out even if they screw it up? Can they beat Namek Freeza or even the androids? or is a fail fusion still too weak no matter how strong the fusees are?

1) Daizenshuu 7 says failed fusion is below the fusers, so I like to have them at 50% an individual fuser. Anime-wise I guess they lose to Ultimate Gohan or Bootenks, and manga-wise they beat Freeza and maybe some low tier SSJs, but definitely not SSJ Vegeta or 18.

2) EoZ they Saiyans are Kid Boo level. I think the strongest Veku beats is Good Boo.

5th form Coola and Cyborg Freeza vs. Dr. Gero and #19

No outside help

Who wins?

Cooler ~ Androids > Freeza

19 takes care of Freeza and the androids gang up on Cooler. Even worse if 19 absorbs Freeza's energy.

[Almighty Majin]

Let's have a little fun. Let us assume that Gero's drones have been working much earlier and more efficiently that they create a new version of Cell based on 5 fighters from each arc. Who is the strongest opponent each version of Cell can defeat? Assume the version of Cell is already Perfect.

Spoiler:

1. Cell (Hunt for DB arc), composed of: Goku, Yamcha, Master Roshi, Puar, Monster Carrot
2. Cell (21st Tournament arc), composed of: Goku, Krillin, Master Roshi, Nam, Giran
3. Cell (RR Army arc), composed of: Goku, Master Roshi, Korin, Mercenary Tao, General Blue
4. Cell (Baba Tournament arc), composed of: Goku, Master Roshi, Grandpa Gohan, Spike the Devilman, Bandages the Mummy
5. Cell (22nd Tournament arc), composed of: Goku, Tien, Krillin, Yamcha, Master Roshi
6. Cell (King Piccolo arc), composed of: Goku, Tien, Master Roshi, King Piccolo, Drum
7. Cell (23rd Tournament arc), composed of: Goku, Piccolo, Kami, Tien, Mr. Popo
8. Cell (Saiyan arc), composed of: Goku, Vegeta, Nappa, Piccolo, Tien
9. Cell (Namek arc), composed of: Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza, Captain Ginyu
10. Cell (Android arc), composed of: Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Cell (yes, the one fought at the Cell Games)
11. Cell (Majin Buu arc), composed of: Vegetto, Buuhan, Kibitoshin, Dabura, Babidi
12. Cell (BoG arc), composed of: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Gotenks, Beerus (only based on what he showed in that arc, not his real full power)
13. Cell (RoF arc), composed of: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Freeza, Tagoma
14. Cell (U6 Tournament arc), composed of: Goku, Vegeta, Hit, Cabba, Frost
15. Cell (Goku Black arc), composed of: Vegetto, Future Trunks, Fused Zamasu, Future Mai, Future Yajirobe
16. Cell (ToP arc), composed of: Goku, Vegeta, Freeza, Jiren, Toppo
17. Cell (Broly arc), composed of: Gogeta, Broly, Freeza, Piccolo, Cheelai
18. Cell (Moro arc), composed of: Goku, Vegeta, Majin Buu, Merus, Moro
19. Cell (Granolah arc), composed of: Goku, Vegeta, Granolah, Gas, Freeza
20. Cell (Super Hero arc), composed of: Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, Trunks, Cell Max