How does kaioken work

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:09 pm

I'm confused here. I've heard that it doubles power, but I also heard that it increases by 25%. Someone told me that Goku was 12,000 and with kaioken he became 15,000 and 18,000 with kaioken times 2 and so on. So which is right? I found a video that explained it. Most of the comments dont agree with kaioken doubling. I also found out about other theories.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=nELxSmH0sOA

Fossilgojir · Post by **Fossilgojir** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:17 pm

His base at that time is over 8000, as stated in the manga. personaly, I think the first kaioken increases power by 50%, then x2 would double it and so on. Thats just me though, I'm sure a 100+ post debate on this exist somewhere.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:19 pm

It's pretty self explanotory, kaioken x2, so it makes your power x2 or doubles it.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:21 pm

You've been watching WAY too many of these YouTube videos. A lot of these guys are willing to twist around words and over-complicate things JUST for the sole purpose of "proving" their stupid power levels "right." And like I said in another thread, there's WAY too many idiots out there who just blindly buy into it.

That said, Kaio-Ken DOES flat-out double power. Kaio-Ken and "Kaio-Ken x 2" are and do the exact same thing, and then the KKx3 triples it, the KKx4 quadruples it, the KKx10 by ten-fold, etc. Here's some quotes from Viz's accurate translation of the fight with Nappa and Vegeta:

Goku: 8000
Vegeta: "Power... 7,000.... 8,000...!! It can't be...!!!"
"Over... 8,000...
(If he was 9000 or higher, Vegeta would have said so.)

Goku (Kaio-Ken): 16,000
Vegeta: "What happened? For an instant, his speed and power multiplied!"
"Impossible... No one just multiplies his power like that...!!"
Kaio-Sama: "Increase it no higher than twice your normal power, do you understand?"
(So it multiplies your power, and Goku wasn't going to go over 2x if he didn't have to)

Vegeta was at 18,000. Goku, doubling his power from 8000 to 16,000 by using Kaio-Ken, brought himself close, and could give him a good fight, but still wasn't powerful enough to beat him. Only once he used the KKx3 did he gain the upper hand.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:23 pm

Are there any youtube people who are reliable sources? I saw one guy who posted videos explaining things that I learned today, like Super Buu being stronger than Kid Buu. Is he a good source?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:27 pm

KingBroly wrote:Are there any youtube people who are reliable sources?

"Reliable people on YouTube" is kind of an oxymoron.

But no, not really. Unless anybody is quoting straight from the manga or real guidebooks, they're most likely just making stuff up.

There's nothing really wrong with speculating. But when you try to pass your ideas off as "fact" or claim "this is what Toriyiama REALLY meant," or the good ol' "I worked for Toriyama, so I'm right" trick... Those are the people you should just disregard.

KingBroly wrote:I saw one guy who posted videos explaining things that I learned today, like Super Buu being stronger than Kid Buu. Is he a good source?

Do you have a link to his account? I don't want to drop names, but if he's who I think you're talking about...

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:28 pm

This guy

http://ca.youtube.com/user/Venom9808

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:34 pm

Yes, Venom is reliable. He gets a bad rep just because he disagrees with dovc2 and a couple others, but he pulls his stuff straight from the manga and tells it like it is. I'd suggest watching his stuff, especially the "why there is no Initial Daizenshuu" clips.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:36 pm

So his levels and info is right, and dovc2s is not?

Post by **Herms** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:36 pm

Fossilgojir wrote:His base at that time is over 8000, as stated in the manga. personaly, I think the first kaioken increases power by 50%, then x2 would double it and so on.

The opening narration to chapter 229 (DBZ 35) describes the Kaio-ken as doubling Goku's battle power. So apparently the basic Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x2 are simply different names for the same thing.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:37 pm

But they're treated as different levels in the manga. So, I'd say this is just a case of Toriyama having a brain fart.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:39 pm

KingBroly wrote:So his levels and info is right, and dovc2s is not?

Yeah, pretty much. dovc2 makes things up, but Venom pulls stuff from the manga and guidebooks.

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:But they're treated as different levels in the manga. So, I'd say this is just a case of Toriyama having a brain fart.

Precisely. Had he somehow forseen how this material would become fanboy flamewar bait, he probably would have been a little more careful about it.

Fossilgojir · Post by **Fossilgojir** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:39 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:But they're treated as different levels in the manga. So, I'd say this is just a case of Toriyama having a brain fart.

Good point, I think people sometimes forget he was rushed a lot, a chapter a week isn't easy! : o

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:40 pm

I wonder why dovc2 does that.

Do you know that guy who claims to work for Akira? Whats the deal with him?

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:45 pm

KingBroly wrote:I wonder why dovc2 does that.

Do you know that guy who claims to work for Akira? Whats the deal with him?

You keep referring to him by his first name, I'm just curious but why?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:46 pm

KingBroly wrote:I wonder why dovc2 does that.

Stubbornness. When it all comes down to it, it's a matter of not wanting to admit that you've been believing a typo for the last couple years.

Do you know that guy who claims to work for Akira? Whats the deal with him?

There's a lot of people out there like that. It's just the way people are; willing to say or make up anything rather than admit they're wrong about something.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:47 pm

You keep referring to him by his first name, I'm just curious but why?

I dont understand why it matters?

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:48 pm

KingBroly wrote:I dont understand why it matters?

I'm only asking, it's just that your the only person who calls him that, everybody else here says his full name or last name.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:49 pm

I dont get why you care if I call him Akira.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:50 pm

Some people think it's disrespectful.

Kanzenshuu

How does kaioken work

How does kaioken work

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