How does kaioken work

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:51 pm

KingBroly wrote:I dont get why you care if I call him Akira.

I don't care, I was just asking. Besides, we shouldn't bicker back and forth like this in a thread because its not on topic and its a waste of space.

If you want I could start a new thread about proper Toriyama respect.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:53 pm

I'll call him Toriyama if you want me to.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:54 pm

KingBroly wrote:I'll call him Toriyama if you want me to.

Your not understanding me, it doesn't matter to me what you call him, I was only asking. However, I know 2 people have already commented on how they thought it was disrespectful, so if it was me I would stop.

Post by **Herms** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:55 pm

KingBroly wrote:This guy

http://ca.youtube.com/user/Venom9808

You should never believe anyone who gives detailed power level lists for anything after the Freeza arc. No numbers are ever mentioned in the series past that point, and no guidebooks offer any. I mean, if he uses stuff from the manga to prove that, say, Vegetto is stronger than Cell, that's fine. But if he pegs specific numbers to Vegetto and Cell's respective strength, then he is making things up, no two ways about it.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:57 pm

So his levels are also wrong after the Freeza Saga?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:59 pm

Herms wrote:
KingBroly wrote:This guy

http://ca.youtube.com/user/Venom9808
You should never believe anyone who gives detailed power level lists for anything after the Freeza arc. No numbers are ever mentioned in the series past that point, and no guidebooks offer any. I mean, if he uses stuff from the manga to prove that, say, Vegetto is stronger than Cell, that's fine. But if he pegs specific numbers to Vegetto and Cell's respective strength, then he is making things up, no two ways about it.

KingBroly wrote:So his levels are also wrong after the Freeza Saga?

Well like I said, speculation is speculation. Even I've thought up some ideas as to what PLs the Cell and Buu-era characters would have, and I pretty much hate the entire concept of power level numbers.

At least Venom doesn't try to contradict the official numbers and then claim they're real, or anything like that. That's the real issue here, and the point I was trying to make to Kingbroly.

But yes, KB. Any power levels past Freeza are pure speculation. The VERY LAST power level value given in either the manga or the guidebooks is a 5, which was Trunks suppressing himself. They don't exist after that.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:00 pm

But some lists are more accurate than others, like Venoms compared to dovc2?

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:04 pm

Well, it's impossible to have specific numbers, but you can get a general feel for who is stronger than who.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:07 pm

KingBroly wrote:But some lists are more accurate than others, like Venoms compared to dovc2?

This is how it is: For the part of the series where power levels were used (Raditz' arrival up to Trunks' arrival), Venom's are correct, because he takes them straight from the manga and guidebooks. dovcs's are incorrect, because he disregards both the guidebooks AND even the manga itself, and makes things up out of nowhere. For the rest of the series, both of them are neither right OR wrong, because there is no evidence or official numbers to base them off of.

Get it?

Post by **Herms** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:08 pm

KingBroly wrote:But some lists are more accurate than others, like Venoms compared to dovc2?

Yeah, definitely (granted, dovc2 is a pretty low hurdle to cross). I was probably too harsh in saying to not trust Venom when it comes to post-Freeza stuff, but just keep in mind that his numbers are essentially only his guesses and approximations.

edit: Oh, and what Kaboom said.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:08 pm

This is how it is: For the part of the series where power levels were used (Raditz' arrival up to Trunks' arrival), Venom's are correct, because he takes them straight from the manga and guidebooks. dovcs's are incorrect, because he disregards both the guidebooks AND even the manga itself, and makes things up out of nowhere. For the rest of the series, both of them are neither right OR wrong, because there is no evidence or official numbers to base them off of.

Okay, but from what I hear, Freeza was over 100,000,000 and dovc2 had Cell less than 100,000,000. Wouldn't that mean that Venoms are more correct after the Freeza Saga?

KillerCory · Post by **KillerCory** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:28 pm

Okay, but from what I hear, Freeza was over 100,000,000

Freeza was never over 100,000,000.

Trying to figure out power levels after the Freeza Arc is impossible because none were ever stated.

I used to wonder what the power levels were but it detracted from the enjoyment of the show and just compared the actual characters to determine who had a higher power level at the time.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:31 pm

KillerCory wrote:Freeza was never over 100,000,000.

Have a read.

KillerCory · Post by **KillerCory** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:33 pm

Have a read.

Shit, I left a zero out...

And to think I have that Daizenshuu (the shame).

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:42 pm

I can't believe this KingBroly guy already has a 1/6th of my posts and he joined today.

Anyway, all power levels after Freeza are pure speculation, even if someone took the time to do mathematical equations to determine peoples "accurate" powerlevels I am sure people would disagree with them. That's why it's best just to avoid them and think about it the way I do.

For Example
Android 19 is stronger than Goku SSJ with Heart Disease.
SSJ Vegeta is stronger than Android 19
SSJ Vegeta is equal or stronger than SSJ Goku(no heart disease) (android arc)
Piccolo is stronger than Android 20
Therefore SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta are stronger than Android 20
Android 18 is stronger than all the of the Z senshi
Android 17 is stronger than Android 18
Android 16 is stronger than Android 17 and is Equal to Imperfect Cell
Piccolo + Kami is about equal with Android 17
USSJ Vegeta is stronger than Semi Perfect Cell
Semi Perfect Cell is stronger than everyone except USSJ Vegeta and USSJ Trunks
Perfect Cell is Stronger than all Z senshi
SSJ Third Grade Trunks has more brute strength than all other character including Perfect Cell but is Slower than SSJ1.
FPSSJ Goku is Stronger than Semi Perfect Cell, is Weaker than Perfect Cell
FPSSJ Gohan is stronger than all z senshi, but is weaker than Perfect Cell
SSJ2 Gohan is stronger than Perfect Cell

And so on and so forth. Meant to be read in order for clarity sake.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:55 pm

omegacwa wrote:I can't believe this KingBroly guy already has a 1/6th of my posts and he joined today.

It's the good ol' "I just joined this forum, I'd better make as many posts as I can, as fast as I can" syndrome.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:56 pm

Okay then..

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:22 pm

omegacwa wrote:Android 18 is stronger than all the of the Z senshi

17 says she can't handle all the Z fighters at once, so she and Vegeta must be fairly close for Piccolo and the humans to make a difference.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:24 pm

Rocketman wrote:
omegacwa wrote:Android 18 is stronger than all the of the Z senshi
17 says she can't handle all the Z fighters at once, so she and Vegeta must be fairly close for Piccolo and the humans to make a difference.

Did you miss them knocking out Super Saiyan Vegeta, Super Saiyan Trunks and Piccolo (who is on par with a Super Saiyan at this point) in a single hit each?

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:34 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
omegacwa wrote:I can't believe this KingBroly guy already has a 1/6th of my posts and he joined today.
It's the good ol' "I just joined this forum, I'd better make as many posts as I can, as fast as I can" syndrome.

I noticed that as well.