The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

Bardock [DBS] vs Appule.
Galactic King vs Kid Vegeta.
Guldo [No psychic abilities] vs Nappa.
Tagoma [Pre Training] vs Dodoria.
18 [ToP arc] vs Frost [ToP arc].

They're about the same. Bardock barely wins since I imagine he's the better fighter [s]and has asspull power too.[/s]

I have Galactic King at 10k since he can destroy planets. I don't think Vegeta is up there yet, would be weird if Vegeta obtained the bulk of his adult power as a 5 year old. I have Kid Vegeta at 6-9k. Just for extra info, I heard a new DBZ: Kakarott has Kid Vegeta call Z Bardock weak, but idk the context behind that.

I have Guldo at 10k too, so he wins somehow.

They're about the same. I can see this one being a tie since we don't know who's the better fighter.

Frost > Piccolo > 18. Frost one shots.

Where are you getting that the Galactic King can destroy planets? All I can find is on the wiki that he can destroy meteors that can destroy planets not that he can do that himself.

18 performed better than Piccolo at the ToP and I remember a preview for it saying she can give Super Saiyans trouble or something like that. Obviously this can be a reference to the Android arc but if the shoe fits for the ToP then...

[Almighty Majin]

Where are you getting that the Galactic King can destroy planets? All I can find is on the wiki that he can destroy meteors that can destroy planets not that he can do that himself.

At the end of the Jiya manga it is stated that the Galactic King is capable of destroying a planet destroying asteroid which would mean that the Galactic King can output an attack that matches or exceeds the planet destroying force of said meteor. This feat is even better when you realize that this would be a Galactic King after waking up from a 9 year sleep so he's likely not even at full fighting capacity.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

18 performed better than Piccolo at the ToP and I remember a preview for it saying she can give Super Saiyans trouble or something like that. Obviously this can be a reference to the Android arc but if the shoe fits for the ToP then...

Giving a SSJ trouble is really vague. Ribrianne was weaker than 18 but gave SSJ Vegeta trouble.

[GatoF]

1. Base Gogeta vs Ikari Broly
2. End of Saiyan arc Gohan vs Saiyan arc Piccolo
3. ToP Piccolo vs Super Janemba
4. LB Jiren vs Cell Max (Jiren is aware of his head weakness)

[Koitsukai]

1. Base Gogeta vs Ikari Broly
2. End of Saiyan arc Gohan vs Saiyan arc Piccolo
3. ToP Piccolo vs Super Janemba
4. LB Jiren vs Cell Max (Jiren is aware of his head weakness)

1) SSB Goku had Broly already under control, Gogeta seems to be as capable as Goku or Vegeta at their mightiest. He has it covered as well.

2) Gohan got stronger, but Piccolo is still more experienced. Gohan also relies too much on his rage bursts, if Piccolo wants to, he ends the fight soon enough.

3) IIRC, Piccolo showed to be above SS2 Gohan but below Ultimate from the Buu arc. He might be able to put up a fight, I don't think he can take it, though.

4) The post-ToP power scaling contradicts itself quite often, Jiren seems to be still a relevant powerhouse and a hell of a fighter, according to SH. I think he can handle it, probably not through sheer power but skill. In the manga, he reached FP after taking some serious damage, and still outlasted UI.

[Koitsukai]

Controlled SS Broly (as seen vs Beast Gohan) vs Zombie Gas

Controlled SS Broly vs TUI Goku and UE Vegeta (Granny arc)

Controlled SS Broly vs Orange Piccolo (SH)

[dragon boss z]

Tao vs 22nd Krillin/Yamcha/Chiaotzu (not together 1v1 against each)

Tao vs Chichi (does she really have a power level of 130 like shonen jump says?)

Korin vs 22nd Goku (shonen jump says his power level is 190, did Goku get a zenkai and surpass Korin after Tambourine fight or is the number wrong?)

Old King Piccolo vs 23rd Yamcha/Krillin (1v1 not together)

Babidi vs saiyan saga Yajirobe/Chaiotzu (1v1)

Jaco vs Raditz

Guru awakened Gohan/Krillin vs saiyan saga kaioken x2 Goku (1v1)

Guldo vs monster Zarbon

Buu saga Krillin vs Buu saga tien vs base Goten (order these 3)

Buu saga base Trunks vs ssj 14 year old future Trunks that sparred with base Gohan

Kibito vs end of namek saga base Goku

Yakon vs Android 19 (pre and post absorption)

strongest form of Cell pre ROSAT ssj Goten can beat

Supreme Kai vs pre tournament training buu saga ssj Gohan

base Gotenks pre ROSAT vs buu saga ssj2 Gohan

base Gotenks post ROSAT vs ssj2 Goku

buu saga ssj Goku vs super perfect Cell

[Almighty Majin]

1. Tao vs 22nd Krillin/Yamcha/Chiaotzu (not together 1v1 against each)

2. Tao vs Chichi (does she really have a power level of 130 like shonen jump says?)

3. Korin vs 22nd Goku (shonen jump says his power level is 190, did Goku get a zenkai and surpass Korin after Tambourine fight or is the number wrong?)

4. Old King Piccolo vs 23rd Yamcha/Krillin (1v1 not together)

5. Babidi vs saiyan saga Yajirobe/Chaiotzu (1v1)

6. Jaco vs Raditz

7. Guru awakened Gohan/Krillin vs saiyan saga kaioken x2 Goku (1v1)

8. Guldo vs monster Zarbon

9. Buu saga Krillin vs Buu saga tien vs base Goten (order these 3)

10. Buu saga base Trunks vs ssj 14 year old future Trunks that sparred with base Gohan

11. Kibito vs end of namek saga base Goku

12. Yakon vs Android 19 (pre and post absorption)

13. strongest form of Cell pre ROSAT ssj Goten can beat

14. Supreme Kai vs pre tournament training buu saga ssj Gohan

15. base Gotenks pre ROSAT vs buu saga ssj2 Gohan

16. base Gotenks post ROSAT vs ssj2 Goku

17. buu saga ssj Goku vs super perfect Cell

1. Krillin performed better against a stronger Goku in the 22nd Tournament compared to Tao in the RR Army arc. Goku was also impressed with Krillin's power despite holding back, but keep in mind that Goku didn't take Tao seriously after his power up from Korin's training. Yamcha is pretty much equal to Krillin at this point and fought decently against Tien in the tournament. Krillin and Yamcha individually would beat Tao. Chiaotzu is less clear, but he's built up to be a rival for Krillin during the tournament and can briefly hold his own against him so maybe he can also beat Tao?

2. I am of the opinion that Chi-Chi is a prodigy and that she surpassed even the 22nd Tournament fighters with just her dad's training so I think Chi-Chi beats Tao.

3. Goku at this point should be slightly stronger than Korin, but Korin has the experience and skill advantage so I think it goes either way but with Korin having the edge.

4. Yamcha managed to impress Kami who treated post-King Piccolo fight Goku like nothing (yes Kami was using a human body, but it's still impressive). Piccolo considered Krillin to be a troublesome fighter who would make conquering Earth difficult. I think they both surpassed old King Piccolo and debatably even prime King Piccolo.

5. Babidi's power is rather vague, but his magic is hyped up as being incredibly powerful and he thought he could incapacitate Piccolo with that electric slime attack. I think Babidi easily wins this.

6. Galactic Patrolman manga Jaco loses to Raditz, he is weaker than a Saiyan adult. DBS Jaco should beat Raditz on account of him being able to easily fight multiple Freeza soldiers and was found to be an impressive fighter by the likes of Krillin at this point in the story (this is even crazier when factoring in Yamcha and Chiaotzu being left out). I'm not saying Jaco is above the likes of Yamcha and Chiaotzu btw, I just think it's something to point out.

7. Assuming this is Krillin and Gohan after their initial Guru power up, it still isn't enough to beat Kaioken x2 Goku from the Saiyan arc.

8. Zarbon should be stronger, but Guldo has the better abilities. I think Guldo can pull the win, he's in the Ginyu Force for a reason, those psychic and time abilities greatly compensate for his weaker power.

9. Base Goten is the least experienced of the 3 fighters, I don't think he can beat Krillin or Tien. Between Krillin and Tien it's a bit tricky. Tien has the better feats and has the Kikoho, but assuming that Krillin is the strongest Earthling here, I wonder if Toriyama just had Krillin be above Tien even including the Kikoho. Idk how much evidence there is of Krillin sparring with 18 during the 7 year time skip aside from anime filler. REMEMBER that settling down and giving up on fighting done NOT mean you stop training. Vegeta gave up on fighting after Cell, but continued to train and keep in shape. Krillin could have done the same as well.

10. Present Trunks wipes the floor with young Future Trunks. Present Trunks was training with Vegeta consistently in the gravity room.

11. Kibito seemed to be stronger than base Buu saga Gohan, but weaker than SSJ Gohan so I think he would easily beat base Namek Goku.

12. I have Yakon somewhere between base and SSJ Buu saga Goku, but a bit closer to SSJ so I think Yakon beats Android 19 handily.

13. Goten beats Semi-Perfect Cell easily and can likely hold his own against suppressed Perfect Cell from the Cell Games.

14. I think Shin can beat a rusty Gohan pre-tournament with difficulty.

15. I don't like the idea of base Gotenks being so strong personally so I give it to Gohan.

16. Same as the previous match-up I gotta give it to Goku.

17. I think Buu saga SSJ Goku is beating Perfect Cell handily, Super Perfect Cell is probably going to require SSJ2 so I think Cell wins this.

[dragon boss z]

1. Krillin performed better against a stronger Goku in the 22nd Tournament compared to Tao in the RR Army arc. Goku was also impressed with Krillin's power despite holding back, but keep in mind that Goku didn't take Tao seriously after his power up from Korin's training. Yamcha is pretty much equal to Krillin at this point and fought decently against Tien in the tournament. Krillin and Yamcha individually would beat Tao. Chiaotzu is less clear, but he's built up to be a rival for Krillin during the tournament and can briefly hold his own against him so maybe he can also beat Tao?

3. Goku at this point should be slightly stronger than Korin, but Korin has the experience and skill advantage so I think it goes either way but with Korin having the edge.

4. Yamcha managed to impress Kami who treated post-King Piccolo fight Goku like nothing (yes Kami was using a human body, but it's still impressive). Piccolo considered Krillin to be a troublesome fighter who would make conquering Earth difficult. I think they both surpassed old King Piccolo and debatably even prime King Piccolo.

7. Assuming this is Krillin and Gohan after their initial Guru power up, it still isn't enough to beat Kaioken x2 Goku from the Saiyan arc.

9. Base Goten is the least experienced of the 3 fighters, I don't think he can beat Krillin or Tien. Between Krillin and Tien it's a bit tricky. Tien has the better feats and has the Kikoho, but assuming that Krillin is the strongest Earthling here, I wonder if Toriyama just had Krillin be above Tien even including the Kikoho. Idk how much evidence there is of Krillin sparring with 18 during the 7 year time skip aside from anime filler. REMEMBER that settling down and giving up on fighting done NOT mean you stop training. Vegeta gave up on fighting after Cell, but continued to train and keep in shape. Krillin could have done the same as well.

10. Present Trunks wipes the floor with young Future Trunks. Present Trunks was training with Vegeta consistently in the gravity room.

11. Kibito seemed to be stronger than base Buu saga Gohan, but weaker than SSJ Gohan so I think he would easily beat base Namek Goku.

13. Goten beats Semi-Perfect Cell easily and can likely hold his own against suppressed Perfect Cell from the Cell Games.

17. I think Buu saga SSJ Goku is beating Perfect Cell handily, Super Perfect Cell is probably going to require SSJ2 so I think Cell wins this.

1. What makes you think Goku didn't take Tao seriously? Tao with his sword was actually above Goku and Goku had to disarm Tao with his power pole to get the advantage again. Also he would be using his full power on Tao while he was using his tournament power on Krillin. Do you think Krillin would even beat Tao with his weapons or just unarmed Tao?

3. So do you disregard the power level for Korin given by shonen jump? By given power levels it should be 22nd Goku 180, Korin 190, and then post Tambourine fight Goku would be above 190. However if you argue that those shonen jump power levels are BS and Goku didn't get stronger from the 22nd tournament, then yeah 22nd Goku would have the power advantage as Korin stated.

4. True, but when it came down to it everyone together not including Goku was no match for Piccolo, so I feel like Krillin only did so well due to how much Piccolo was holding back.

7. They were given power levels of "over 10,000" though scouters rarely ever capture the full power of the Z fighters. Later Krillin was holding his own against Ginyu in Goku's body with a power level of 23,000. Do you think Krillin just got stronger over that short amount of time? That would coincide with Piccolo later being given a power level of 75,000 in the Frieza fight bu v-jump. So it could go Krillin vs Recoome=13,000 Krillin vs Ginyu Goku= 20,000 Krillin vs Frieza=75,000

9. Where do you stack up base Goten, Krillin, and Tien against villians?

10. Present Trunks is definitely stronger than future Trunks, but you think there is a big gap even if present Trunks is in base and future is in ssj?

11. What makes you say Kibito seems stronger than base Gohan? Base Gohan could lift the Z sword and Kibito couldn't budge it.

13. What makes you think Goten is that strong? imo he is Cell jr. level max.

17. I was thinking super perfect cell might be above buu saga ssj Goku, but then I thought about how ssj2 Goku>ssj2 kid Gohan who beat Cell at half power and ssj2 is stated to be a 2x multiplier (though I definitely don't think it's that little for rage Gohan). If it really is a 2x multiplier and if Gohan really did beat Cell at half power, ssj Goku mathematically should be above Cell. Also if you think Dabura =super perfect Cell, narratively it's implied ssj Goku and Vegeta are above Dabura imo, since they call him nothing before either of them learned the other had ssj2.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

1. Base Gogeta vs Ikari Broly
2. End of Saiyan arc Gohan vs Saiyan arc Piccolo
3. ToP Piccolo vs Super Janemba
4. LB Jiren vs Cell Max (Jiren is aware of his head weakness)

1. Even SSJB Goku had the upperhand on Ikari Broly, so Gogeta wins since he could

Tao vs 22nd Krillin/Yamcha/Chiaotzu (not together 1v1 against each)

Tao vs Chichi (does she really have a power level of 130 like shonen jump says?)

Korin vs 22nd Goku (shonen jump says his power level is 190, did Goku get a zenkai and surpass Korin after Tambourine fight or is the number wrong?)

Old King Piccolo vs 23rd Yamcha/Krillin (1v1 not together)

Babidi vs saiyan saga Yajirobe/Chaiotzu (1v1)

Jaco vs Raditz

Guru awakened Gohan/Krillin vs saiyan saga kaioken x2 Goku (1v1)

Guldo vs monster Zarbon

Buu saga Krillin vs Buu saga tien vs base Goten (order these 3)

Buu saga base Trunks vs ssj 14 year old future Trunks that sparred with base Gohan

Kibito vs end of namek saga base Goku

Yakon vs Android 19 (pre and post absorption)

strongest form of Cell pre ROSAT ssj Goten can beat

Supreme Kai vs pre tournament training buu saga ssj Gohan

base Gotenks pre ROSAT vs buu saga ssj2 Gohan

base Gotenks post ROSAT vs ssj2 Goku

buu saga ssj Goku vs super perfect Cell

I think Kuririn/Yamcha/Chaozu can defeat Tao, but I reckon the story is a bit confusing about it. Kuririn and Yamcha are very confident on winning (Back when confidence meant something) and they even put up very good fights vs Goku and Tien. Tao could barely keep up with Goku from 3 years before. I think the Tao hype is just awkward writing, as soon as Goku fights some fodder Tsuru admits Goku is strong anyway.

This one is probably just a matter of whether you trust guidebooks. It's confirmed Goku had zenkais as a kid, and I have no problem with him only surpassing Karin after getting a zenkai from Piccolo.

I have no problem with Chi-Chi > Tao. She's looks pretty impressive against Goku, and Tao was already old news by this point.

The humans win easily. I imagine Kuririn vs Piccolo Jr (Before Jr powered up) is what Kuririn vs a young PD would look like. Yamcha is a step behind Kuririn, but Old is dimensions below Young so Yamcha still stomps.

Babidi's magic is dangerous enough that Kaioshin is expecting a fight (And in filler Piccolo struggles with his barrier). But if it's a hand to hand thing, even Bulma would destroy him lol.

In Jaco's manga it's said he can't beat adult Saiyans. Granted that was decades ago, but I'd put him at 1,000 at best nowadays. His RoF feats aren't as impressive when you notice that a) The 1000~2000ish thugs on Namek were the best and b) The ones on RoF are much weaker than when Freeza was alive. Bottom of the bottom.

Close fight, but I think the duo wins. They might even beat Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

If Zarbon is aware of Guldo's powers (And he probably is), I think he can blitz Guldo before anything happens.

Kuririn sighted in relief when he heard he wasn't fighting the base boys. Goten could kill Kuririn and Tien at once by blinking. That kid is well beyond Android Saga Saiyans, Kuririn is lucky if he's reached 1,000,000. Tien is somewhat behind Kuririn.

Future Gohan said Trunks was improving very fast and would catch up soon, so I tend to be generous and assume SSJ Future Trunks was just very tired when Base Gohan owned him. I'd place SSJ Future Trunks at like 50% Freeza level, so maybe Base Present Trunks can put up a fight, but he's not winning.

Kibito is definitely weaker than Base Gohan based on the Z Sword exchange, but I like to keep in kinda close (Like 2/3rd of his power) so the lines about Kibito giving Gohan trouble make a bit of sense. That means Kibito is still in the tens of millions, but Goku can win with a Kaio-Ken x20 Kamehameha.

Yakon is below Base Goku, who's below Freeza. A couple guidebooks say all androids > Freeza, so 19 post smokes. I'd give 19 pre the benefit of the doubt too, I think he's 100% Freeza or Namek SSJ Goku level.

I think SSJ Goten can beat Semi Perfect Cell at least. I have him slightly above the Suppressed Perfect Cell who humiliated Vegeta, but Cell would win since he's smarter and can regenerate.

A guidebook says Kaioshin ~ CG SSJ Goku. It's reasoning is weird (It says he's Goku level because he's below Dabra? Sounds like a highball), but I like that placement. I have BS SSJ Gohan in the same level, so I guess Kaioshin wins because this Gohan is rusty af.

Via "Fusion has small SSJ multiplier because nobody likes big numbers" headcanon, I have Gotenks on pair with Pre Majin SSJ2 Vegeta. That means he can beat Gohan.

Daizenshuu says Gotenks surpassed "Vegeta and the others" in Rosat, and I like the interpretation that it means base since his SSJ power was always stronger. Still, I only have him a hair above SSJ2 Goku, so Goku wins by being the better fighter.

Super Perfect Cell one shots. SSJ Goku vs FP Cell would be a much better fight, but SPC is SSJ2 tier.

[dragon boss z]

A couple guidebooks say all androids > Freeza

Super Perfect Cell one shots. SSJ Goku vs FP Cell would be a much better fight, but SPC is SSJ2 tier.

-Do you have the sources for those guidebook statements?

-Do you not believe Gohan killed Cell at half power? If he did, and if ssj is a 2x multiplier (Gohan's could have been more due to the rage boost), then since ssj2 Goku was around kid ssj2 Gohan, his ssj form should be around super perfect Cell. Also he and Vegeta said Dabura was nothing to them and that he was Cell level, and that was before either knew the other had ssj2, so that could imply as ssj they are above Dabura. So I guess it would depend if you think Dabura is SPC tier or just PC tier.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

A couple guidebooks say all androids > Freeza

Super Perfect Cell one shots. SSJ Goku vs FP Cell would be a much better fight, but SPC is SSJ2 tier.

-Do you have the sources for those guidebook statements?

-Do you not believe Gohan killed Cell at half power? If he did, and if ssj is a 2x multiplier (Gohan's could have been more due to the rage boost), then since ssj2 Goku was around kid ssj2 Gohan, his ssj form should be around super perfect Cell. Also he and Vegeta said Dabura was nothing to them and that he was Cell level, and that was before either knew the other had ssj2, so that could imply as ssj they are above Dabura. So I guess it would depend if you think Dabura is SPC tier or just PC tier.

- Dragon Books (Text boxes with big 5 and 6 on them): "Even stronger foes, the Artificial Humans, appear[...]"

Spoiler:

The other one would be the El Manga Legendario. I remember a text making a comparison to Super Saiyans next to a picture of all the androids, but I couldn't find it so take this as a grain of salt.

- Nope. Gohan was at half power when he was injured, but Goku told him to unleash his full power to kill Cell. SSJ2 Gohan's power filled half of Boo's meter and SSJ2 Goku had to be severely injured to fill the other half so Gohan can't be just a fraction of Goku's power. Either Dabra was Suppressed Cell level or Goku being surprised at SSJ2 Vegeta is a pointless reaction panel for drama/shock.

[dragon boss z]

- Dragon Books (Text boxes with big 5 and 6 on them): "Even stronger foes, the Artificial Humans, appear[...]"

The other one would be the El Manga Legendario. I remember a text making a comparison to Super Saiyans next to a picture of all the androids, but I couldn't find it so take this as a grain of salt.

- Nope. Gohan was at half power when he was injured, but Goku told him to unleash his full power to kill Cell. SSJ2 Gohan's power filled half of Boo's meter and SSJ2 Goku had to be severely injured to fill the other half so Gohan can't be just a fraction of Goku's power. Either Dabra was Suppressed Cell level or Goku being surprised at SSJ2 Vegeta is a pointless reaction panel for drama/shock.

-Eh, that's very vague.

-Gohan said he lost half his ki. Goku later said he was purposefully/subconsciously holding back to not destroy the planet. This does not mean he didn't actually lose half his power. It just means he wasn't even using his current full power, which would be 50%. So he was using less than half power.

-I don't think we can put much stock into the Buu meter thing. I don't think there is any way ssj2 Gohan was half the power of full power Buu. And I don't think Goku being surprised at Vegeta's strength is pointless if Dabura was SP Cell tier. It just means SP Cell isn't that strong, which is backed up by Goku and Vegeta saying they thought a Cell level opponent was nothing to them now and both of them didn't reveal they had ssj2 yet to the other. If we go by the super manga Goku also casually defeats a Cell he image fights with in ssj right at the start of the series.

It can make sense if it goes like this

SP Cell: 1
Dabura: 1
ssj2 buu saga Gohan who can't call on anger: 1
buu saga ssj Goku: 1.5
ssj2 cell games Gohan: 2
buu saga ssj2 Goku/ Majin Vegeta: 3
Mr. Buu: 4
Fat Buu anger spike: 10
ssj3 Goku: 12

[GreatSaiyaman123]

-Eh, that's very vague.

-Gohan said he lost half his ki. Goku later said he was purposefully/subconsciously holding back to not destroy the planet. This does not mean he didn't actually lose half his power. It just means he wasn't even using his current full power, which would be 50%. So he was using less than half power.

-I don't think we can put much stock into the Buu meter thing. I don't think there is any way ssj2 Gohan was half the power of full power Buu. And I don't think Goku being surprised at Vegeta's strength is pointless if Dabura was SP Cell tier. It just means SP Cell isn't that strong, which is backed up by Goku and Vegeta saying they thought a Cell level opponent was nothing to them now and both of them didn't reveal they had ssj2 yet to the other. If we go by the super manga Goku also casually defeats a Cell he image fights with in ssj right at the start of the series.

It can make sense if it goes like this

SP Cell: 1
Dabura: 1
ssj2 buu saga Gohan who can't call on anger: 1
buu saga ssj Goku: 1.5
ssj2 cell games Gohan: 2
buu saga ssj2 Goku/ Majin Vegeta: 3
Mr. Buu: 4
Fat Buu anger spike: 10
ssj3 Goku: 12

Found the EML image:

Spoiler:

"The Androids surpass the Super Saiyans in their capacities."

So full power actually means "full power of half your full power"? That doesn't even make sense. Gohan saying he lost all that power is part of his insecurity, he can still gather all his power if he focuses on it.

Eh, that seems kinda lopsided. So FP Cell is like a 0.75? He gets a very small boost and then gets treated as SSJ2 level despite barely being half of SSJ2 Gohan? Gohan said he underestimated Cell after getting blasted in the arm, sounds like he was a real threat.

Also EML says Dabra > SSJs.

Spoiler:

Text under the colored panel: "Dabra underestimated the Saiyans. Although he's the strongest in the Demon Realm, he was no match to Goku's group when they surpassed the Super Saiyan."

[dragon boss z]

Found the EML image:

Spoiler:

"The Androids surpass the Super Saiyans in their capacities."

So full power actually means "full power of half your full power"? That doesn't even make sense. Gohan saying he lost all that power is part of his insecurity, he can still gather all his power if he focuses on it.

Eh, that seems kinda lopsided. So FP Cell is like a 0.75? He gets a very small boost and then gets treated as SSJ2 level despite barely being half of SSJ2 Gohan? Gohan said he underestimated Cell after getting blasted in the arm, sounds like he was a real threat.

Also EML says Dabra > SSJs.

Spoiler:

Text under the colored panel: "Dabra underestimated the Saiyans. Although he's the strongest in the Demon Realm, he was no match to Goku's group when they surpassed the Super Saiyan."

- Including 19 and 20 in that statement is kind of weird because they clearly didn't surpass super saiyans. 17, 18, 16, and Cell were all stated to surpass ssj and the cast had to try and surpass the ssj barrier to defeat them, so I assume that's who the statement is referencing. Also that scan is a bit weird because it says the androids get stronger as they go down but 17 and 18 are just next to 19/20 and 16 and if it's talking about their written names 19 and 20 are in the wrong order and so are 17 and 18.

-Gohan last half his ki, which he couldn't control. Then in the ki clash he purposefully wasn't letting out power he had because he was afraid of destroying the planet. For example, let's say you just ran a marathon and are extremely tired. Then you wrestle with someone and are going easy on them not to hurt them. If you all of a sudden go all out, that doesn't mean you are actually at your peak at which you would have been pre marathon.

-why would regular perfect Cell be a 0.75? maybe he could be, or he could be lower. Gohan said Cell was stronger than he thought, but since that attack that got Gohan was kind of treated as a cheap shot, I'm not sore how much value it has. I think SPC could possibly be ssj2 tier, but if that's the case Dabura might only be regular perfect Cell level.

-that EML statement does not say Dabra>ssjs, it just says ssj2s>>Dabra. It says he is no match for ssj2s, so that implies he is at least a match for ssj. That works with my current scaling as I have him in the same tier as buu saga ssj Goku.

[Hellspawn28]

Buu saga Piccolo vs. SSj Buu Saga Goku

- No outside help
- Goku can't go SSj2 and SSj3
- Piccolo has no weight clothes

Who wins?

[Almighty Majin]

Buu saga Piccolo vs. SSj Buu Saga Goku

- No outside help
- Goku can't go SSj2 and SSj3
- Piccolo has no weight clothes

Who wins?

I think this fight is pretty close, but Goku ultimately edges out the win.

[Hellspawn28]

SSj Namek Saga Vegeta vs. 100% Full Power Freeza

If Vegeta became a SSj in the Namek saga, would he able to beat Freeza at full power?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Buu saga Piccolo vs. SSj Buu Saga Goku

- No outside help
- Goku can't go SSj2 and SSj3
- Piccolo has no weight clothes

Who wins?

Goku completely DESTROYS Piccolo, he wasn't even as strong as a embarrassingly weak SSJ Gohan in RoF years later. He'd be lucky to beat SSJ Goten, let alone Goku.

SSj Namek Saga Vegeta vs. 100% Full Power Freeza

If Vegeta became a SSj in the Namek saga, would he able to beat Freeza at full power?

Probably Vegeta. 100% Freeza is 120mil and Vegeta is what, 2.5mil? SSJ Vegeta would be as strong as Freeza but with way better stamina.

[TobyS]

Tao vs 22nd Krillin/Yamcha/Chiaotzu (not together 1v1 against each)

Tao vs Chichi (does she really have a power level of 130 like shonen jump says?)

Korin vs 22nd Goku (shonen jump says his power level is 190, did Goku get a zenkai and surpass Korin after Tambourine fight or is the number wrong?)

Old King Piccolo vs 23rd Yamcha/Krillin (1v1 not together)

Babidi vs saiyan saga Yajirobe/Chaiotzu (1v1)

Jaco vs Raditz

Guru awakened Gohan/Krillin vs saiyan saga kaioken x2 Goku (1v1)

Guldo vs monster Zarbon

Buu saga Krillin vs Buu saga tien vs base Goten (order these 3)

Buu saga base Trunks vs ssj 14 year old future Trunks that sparred with base Gohan

Kibito vs end of namek saga base Goku

Yakon vs Android 19 (pre and post absorption)

strongest form of Cell pre ROSAT ssj Goten can beat

Supreme Kai vs pre tournament training buu saga ssj Gohan

base Gotenks pre ROSAT vs buu saga ssj2 Gohan

base Gotenks post ROSAT vs ssj2 Goku

buu saga ssj Goku vs super perfect Cell

I think they beat him, unless he can counter chaozus power.
Goku might have been using match strength but kuririn managed something against a stronger goku.

I think chichi can beat non cyborg tao but not cyborg.

Doesn't catching korin mean goku surpassed him?

They can beat old king, it's young king that's maybe still relevant to them.

Shin can't stomp him in time to help with Dabra so they can't beat him, unless chaozus tk can hold him and prevent a spell and be kicked to death after.

Jaco in his first appearance can't beat any adult saiyan so no raditz. But in RoF he probably can.

Yeah the team can beat goku here if he can't use higher multipliers.

Guldo is underrated. Gohan was probably stronger than zarbon at this point his powers give him the win. He's on the gforce for a reason.

I don't rate the kids in base, in ss they are also overated bit sadly probably stronger than the humans in raw ki. Word kf god is Kuririn is stronger than Ten.

Kuririn, Ten, Goten

In ss I think Ten could possibly kikoho him still. The kids have high potential and surprise everyone with this unexpected current strength, but otherwise they are fusion fodder.

Present trunks is stronger but not 50x people can't power scale fucking hell.

Kibito beats namek base goku, guide books say he would give base buu gohan a good fight.

I have Yakon at freeza level so either version of the androids beats him.

Goten can beat imperfect cell. Maybe semi it's hard to tell they lack feats. But no form of perfect

Supreme kai can take ss1 cell games goku imo. Gohan was stronger but perhaps his rust dropped him down to that tier. With a rage boost gohan. Without it's shin.

Base gotenks is stronger than a ss1 kid, but I'm not seeing a ss2 adult losing to pre rosat.

Base gotenks was said to have surpassed “vegeta and the others” but what form? I think he can beat any ss1 now, ss1 pre is about ss3 goku. But base and post... I think he didn't get 50 times stronger... It's hard to math out I think he loses

Goku is only a little above ss1 cell games gohan here, so it depends how you think he'd fair too.

Lets say he can beat the cell that was holding back, but without gohans rage boosts he needs ss2.

I think even Bog ss1 goku struggles with full power PC.

PC is like the strongest ss1 ever and ss2 is like the weakest ss2 it's odd.