Response to recent criticism

[Cure Dragon 255]

I know this is me just throwing shade back, but I did not appreciate Vegetto EX's shade that my threads are driving people away from the forums. Sure that thread he locked had ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with Dragon Ball other than a vain hope it could air DB, and its his forum his rules, I agreed to them when I joined, I love this place. Its the last great forum and Vegetto EX's scrutiny and quality control have much to do with its quality and survival. But to have him basically say "Yeah, your posts make our forum look BAD and scare people off." is not something I will just hear being said about me and just take it withouth any response. Because this is a little nugget of wisdom y'all need to know.



Just about every single topic and discussion about Dragon Ball has already been had. Other than discussions about ongoing media, without me or not, every single thread is nothing but what came before, in another package, with different members participating. And I dont like this assigning blame on me and not on the fact that every single thread HAS TO HAVE something to do with Dragon Ball in some way, and by sheer virtue of lasting more than 20 years pretty much every single topic has been covered.

My threads are dumb, but I put a lot of effort into them. I listened to criticism. I stopped making dumb stuff just for its sake, and I really get it must be tiring to deal with. I put a lot of thought and try to make threads more unique, even if they are well trodden ground.

This is not a rage quit, I love this place and everyone in it, I've never felt more at home than here. But I know this will probably lead to a ban. I really hope not and I hope we can just see it as a needed venting and cleaning up the air. I swear I will never ever make another post like this but I HAD to say it.

[Vegetto95]

Like, dude... I get i; you miss the days when Dragon Ball was on cable TV (which for the most part was a long, LONG time ago), but it does often times come across like you're borderline OBSESSED with the idea of it. And I intend NO offense by this WHATSOEVER, but it does sometimes comes across as just a taaaad out of touch since (and I know MAAAANY other users have said this ad nauseum in response to your many, many posts on the subject) a rapidly increasing GIANT percentage of people (and ESPECIALLY Dragon Ball's target audience of children) just DON'T watch cable TV anymore. That's just how it is, like it or not. This isn't the 90s-mid 2000s anymore. Amazing high budget, well-written shows like The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The West Wing, Boardwalk Empire, Downton Abbey, and The Wire aren't on HBO and TNT and NBC anymore... they're on Max and Netflix and Prime Video.

And hell, I feel your pain. I'm a physical media collector. I LOVE owning DVDs and Blu-rays of the movies and shows I enjoy, being able to actually hold them in my hands and know that some greedy corporate streaming service isn't constantly holding them hostage behind a monthly paywall. I currently own NEARLY A THOUSAND DVDs and Blu-rays, and have HUNDREDS more on the ol' wishlist. However... those days 100% ARE rapidly waning. Most people don't buy movies and shows on disc anymore, because the allure of the (much of it falsely manufactured) "convenience" of streaming is far too great these days. And there are a GREAT many shows and movies that are streaming originals that I know will sadly NEVER be released on physical media, and I have to simply accept that sad reality. It sucks, yes... but you don't see me making dozens of posts about the vast, unimpeachable importance of Dragon Ball being available on DVD and Blu-ray (despite how much I personally feel it and wish we had MUCH better home media releases of the franchise available), do you?

Now, again, I am NOT saying any of this to insult you or belittle you or anything of the sort, just plainly putting it the way it does very much come off a lot of the time. Sometimes you just have to step back and take a good look in the mirror and ask "Is it really just me?" Again, take this how you will, but you DO post on this forum A LOT. And OF COURSE there's NOTHING saying you can't, obviously. But there's also no one forcing you to constantly be on here posting either. I mean, I LOVE Dragon Ball and I LOVE this site and its members... but look at my post history. Basically this whole year so far, I might come on here and make a burst of a few posts for a few days, then disappear for a month or so, rinse and repeat. There's not much to talk about with Dragon Ball at the moment... so I don't talk about Dragon Ball much, it's that simple.

And I get that it can feel frustrating at times that there's not much at all going on with the Dragon Ball brand that we all love so much at the moment and that truly fresh conversations are scarce. But this forum started in 2004 at a time where there wasn't all that much in the way of NEW Dragon Ball similarly to how there is now, and it has thrived through similar droughts since then. There will be new Dragon Ball stuff to talk about when the Super manga eventually returns from hiatus at some point, when Daima begins airing this fall, and when Sparking! ZERO releases this fall.

But until then... well, you joined this forum TWELVE YEARS AGO. There's ZERO excuse for you to not remember the RULES that you agreed to when you did. And I quote: "This is a Dragon Ball (and by extension Akira Toriyama-focused) community. Unless there is a direct comparison, correlation, or influence being discussed with regard to other franchises, we ask that conversations and contributions be about and solely about Dragon Ball and/or Toriyama’s direct works. Other topics that related to Dragon Ball or Toriyama beyond the baseline content itself (e.g., societal) are of course welcomed, so long as they are in line with the rest of the community guidelines."

You really have no right to complain about the MeToons thread getting locked when it literally had NOTHING to do with Dragon Ball whatsoever, despite your EXTREMELY thin attempts to connect it by way of "Maybe possibly potentially somehow perhaps perchance, if a cow jumps over the moon at five past midnight and Santa's reindeer eat all the carrots I left out, then Dragon Ball miiiiiiiiiight maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe be on it since it clearly panders to nostalgic manchildren???" I'm sorry, but Mike was 1000% merely enforcing the rules of the site that HE made -again, the rules WE ALL agreed to abide by when we joined- when he locked that thread.

So if Dragon Ball is really SO dry right now that you have to reach THAT MUCH to be able to talk about something new in regards to it... then maybe, I dunno... take a little break and go have fun elsewhere for a bit? Obviously NO ONE is forcing you to stay away... but no one's forcing you to constantly be on here making posts that are increasingly irrelevant to Dragon Ball either.

Hang out with some friends in real life and talk about Dragon Ball with them, go to a bookstore, go bowling or swimming (it's summer!!!!) or to a play or concert... or even simply just explore more media, especially if it's outside your normal comfort zone! There's SOOOO much wonderful stuff out there. I've been reading some GREAT books lately such as David Grann's Killers of the Flower Moon that Martin Scorsese adapted into his most recent film last year, which was I likewise REALLY enjoyed, Michael Mann's Heat 2, the dual prequel-sequel to his 1995 smash hit film with Al Pacino and Robert De Niro, and Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli, a FASCINATING look into the chaotic making of Francis Ford Coppola's The Godfather. I've also finally been getting around to reading the original novels that inspired classic films I've loved for years like Cool Hand Luke, The Grapes of Wrath, The Haunting of Hill House, and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

In terms of anime, I've been getting VERY heavily into a lot of 80s OVAs and films like Angel Cop, Demon City Shinjuku, Wicked City, Ninja Scroll, Bubblegum Crisis, Biohunter, Armitage III, Crying Freeman, Memories, Robot Carnival, and many many others, mainly due to Kunzait_83 recommending them to many different users many times over the years... and you know what? I've been having a BALL watching them. (You're the best, Kunzait!!)

So yeah... nothing much is going on with Dragon Ball right now, that is certainly true. And you know what? There's NOTHING wrong with that. Your free time doesn't have to (and really, REALLY shouldn't) revolve so heavily around Dragon Ball and Kanzenshuu. I love DB and this site too. But there's SO much else out there I'd miss out on if I was spending the amount of time posting on here that you do. Again, it's obviously your life and you can do what you want with it, do NOT let me tell you what to do... but at least think about it, ya?

[GhostEmperorX]

Like, dude... I get i; you miss the days when Dragon Ball was on cable TV (which for the most part was a long, LONG time ago), but it does often times come across like you're borderline OBSESSED with the idea of it. And I intend NO offense by this WHATSOEVER, but it does sometimes comes across as just a taaaad out of touch since (and I know MAAAANY other users have said this ad nauseum in response to your many, many posts on the subject) a rapidly increasing GIANT percentage of people (and ESPECIALLY Dragon Ball's target audience of children) just DON'T watch cable TV anymore. That's just how it is, like it or not. This isn't the 90s-mid 2000s anymore.

To add onto this, the same goes for online forums like this site as well to some extent. They've been on the decline for a good long while now, with many no longer existing as they were before or at all. The effects are most definitely visible on even this site, where it's no longer as active across the board (if a few recurring topic types are to be subtracted).
Some have yet to see what's going on in this area too.

It's also regrettable since sites like these are a good as well as more organized medium for in-depth topic discussions, but it seems to be the way things are going. And what better time for them to have been active than now when it's become much easier to sort, contain, and parse through information than it was in previous years?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Like, dude... I get i; you miss the days when Dragon Ball was on cable TV (which for the most part was a long, LONG time ago), but it does often times come across like you're borderline OBSESSED with the idea of it. And I intend NO offense by this WHATSOEVER, but it does sometimes comes across as just a taaaad out of touch since (and I know MAAAANY other users have said this ad nauseum in response to your many, many posts on the subject) a rapidly increasing GIANT percentage of people (and ESPECIALLY Dragon Ball's target audience of children) just DON'T watch cable TV anymore. That's just how it is, like it or not. This isn't the 90s-mid 2000s anymore.

To add onto this, the same goes for online forums like this site as well to some extent. They've been on the decline for a good long while now, with many no longer existing as they were before or at all. The effects are most definitely visible on even this site, where it's no longer as active across the board (if a few recurring topic types are to be subtracted).
Some have yet to see what's going on in this area too.

It's also regrettable since sites like these are a good as well as more organized medium for in-depth topic discussions, but it seems to be the way things are going. And what better time for them to have been active than now when it's become much easier to sort, contain, and parse through information than it was in previous years?

Oh god, finally! FINALLY! THANK YOU THANK YOU! I dont even mind the criticism but this needed to be said.

[Cure Dragon 255]

You really have no right to complain about the MeToons thread getting locked when it literally had NOTHING to do with Dragon Ball whatsoever, despite your EXTREMELY thin attempts to connect it by way of "Maybe possibly potentially somehow perhaps perchance, if a cow jumps over the moon at five past midnight and Santa's reindeer eat all the carrots I left out, then Dragon Ball miiiiiiiiiight maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe be on it since it clearly panders to nostalgic manchildren???" I'm sorry, but Mike was 1000% merely enforcing the rules of the site that HE made -again, the rules WE ALL agreed to abide by when we joined- when he locked that thread.

I did NOT object to the thread being locked, I admitted it was a pointless thread that I DO NOT object to being closed. I do NOT, however agree that my threads "Are so awful new members are scared or would hate to join?" That's way pass "Tough but fair moderation" into "Absolute Low Blow Territory" and I wont stand for it. Most of my recent threads arent even tv deal or dub centric, there was that thread where we discussed if Goku really was a hero, or the context Toriyama was when he wrote the manga and then the continuation. I learned my lesson. No more rapid fire threads. I am sorry. But I did put a lot of thought and wasnt trying to force anyone.

Heck there is even that "What if the internet existed back when the Buu Saga was a thing." Which I am going to rename into "Social Media" because people are not getting the context of my intent. Sure the internet did exist but it did NOT reshape online criticism until Social Media came into being.

EDIT: Also I LOVE the American centric "Its summer, go swim" because where I live, it is WINTER and the water in my pool would make me freeze to death.

[Alruneia]

I'll just quote part of the post and underline what I want to address:

There is an ongoing issue with certain users and the tendency to wildly extrapolate and/or theorize about unrelated topics, overwhelmingly dominating the appearance of who discusses what on this forum. This has the unintended effect of actually DRIVING AWAY potential new registrants and discussion partners, so please take this into consideration as you create new threads.

I'm not pointing my finger at you specifically here, but VegettoEX is correct and I can personally vouch for it. I check the most recent threads here decently often, and I always feel like the same few users are dominating every thread, and it genuinely makes me not want to participate. It feels like there's ALWAYS a "usual suspect" user responsible for like half the posts in any recent thread, and I don't want to post in threads that are being micromanaged like that. It's like there's a police officer breathing down my neck or something, and it creates an uncomfortable atmosphere that can easily turn users, especially new users, away from participating. I don't agree with "stop making threads", I think it's great that threads are being made, as long as they're, you know, actually Dragon Ball-related, but... just don't be a micromanager who ends up dominating threads because you immediately respond to (almost) every post anyone else makes, because that does scare people off.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I'll just quote part of the post and underline what I want to address:

There is an ongoing issue with certain users and the tendency to wildly extrapolate and/or theorize about unrelated topics, overwhelmingly dominating the appearance of who discusses what on this forum. This has the unintended effect of actually DRIVING AWAY potential new registrants and discussion partners, so please take this into consideration as you create new threads.

I'm not pointing my finger at you specifically here, but VegettoEX is correct and I can personally vouch for it. I check the most recent threads here decently often, and I always feel like the same few users are dominating every thread, and it genuinely makes me not want to participate. It feels like there's ALWAYS a "usual suspect" user responsible for like half the posts in any recent thread, and I don't want to post in threads that are being micromanaged like that. It's like there's a police officer breathing down my neck or something, and it creates an uncomfortable atmosphere that can easily turn users, especially new users, away from participating. I don't agree with "stop making threads", I think it's great that threads are being made, as long as they're, you know, actually Dragon Ball-related, but... just don't be a micromanager who ends up dominating threads because you immediately respond to (almost) every post anyone else makes, because that does scare people off.

This is true, and explained through the context of someone who indeed wants to join in but is discouraged by the dominant voices in the threads... Ok I admit it now. I am a bit sad you are afraid to join in. You are a pretty cool member and your perspective would very much be welcome. But yeah. Extremely sorry for making Kanzenshuu a less comfy place to be.

I've seen the light now. Wont think I will swim in the ice cold water tho!

[Rafa Fast]

I knew! I knew that someone would feel this way at some point! For a similar reason, there was this discussion a few weeks ago
I understand why VegettoEX said that, although I definitely don't agree with what he said that made you complain about in this post, but I understand it. The general sub-forum always have a lot of discussions that are completely unrelated to the Dragon Ball franchise, it's a fact that when you talk about dubs or airings, you're not talking about Dragon Ball, you're talking about the work of a company and other people that just aren't involved in the series’ production.

Is that bad? Of course not, if you and your friends are having fun discussing these subjects, then it's completely fine, have fun! You all probably wouldn't want to have these discussions in a different forum or site because not all of you would agree to switch, plus, you're all used to this forum, so you already feel comfortable here, there's no need to move these discussions to different sites, you can discuss them here, it's your right…at least, it was until now?

Again, I understand why VegettoEX said that, he probably feels that the General subforums always having unrelated DB threads can make new members confused, as “General Franchise Discussions” gives the idea that you're still going to talk about Dragon Ball, just not about it's universe, but about in Real life stuff, like production for the series etc. So discussions about dubs and airings showing up in the main page can make new members feel discouraged or just lose the interest in visiting the site, we have to be open minded, that is a true possibility.

The problem is, why complain just now? Why was it only now that he locked your thread? You and your friends have been here for over a decade. I'm definitely not part of these discussions, but I'm totally aware that you guys had multiple discussions and threads like that one, and what happened to them? Nothing, they weren't locked. I saw one thread you made that discussed something about Crunchyroll, it had nothing to do with Dragon Ball, the title made that clear. What happened to that thread? Exactly, nothing.
Then why did it happen just now? The forum staff allowing you guys to have these discussions with no problem for many years so far should be an indicative that these discussions aren't against the forum's rules. So what the heck happened now?

I know I'm not the kind of member like you who says “I couldn't feel more at home than here”, I've been here for less time and I'm generally not very active, I have no interest in dubs, airings, etc, I just pop up here from time to time to learn something new, post something If I want to, and then vanish, I really don't mind if the General sub-forum have topics unrelated to Dragon Ball, so I definitely would never have the same feelings as you, but it's important to be open-minded, that allows us to understand the situation and maybe think in a way to possibly solve it.

For that reason, in that linked thread, I said that it could be very good to have a split in the forum. If there are members who enjoy this place so much, but want to talk about something that goes beyond Dragon Ball, then why not create a separate sub-forum to make topics about other media, franchises, etc? The problem with “General Franchise Discussion” is already in its name, it suggests that you're still going to talk about Dragon Ball. Why not create a “General Discussion” sub-forum?
Or better, people here love to talk about dubs, then why not create a “Dub Discussion” sub-forum? I know that would be good, because let's remember, there is a “Music” sub-forum, I mean, why not make a sub-forum dedicated to Dubs and Airings too? These three are content that a lot of users don't have any interest in discussing, I know the Music discussions are more related to Dragon Ball, but still, doesn't make any sense to me, I used to be extremely active in that sub-forum, and for me it just shows that Dubs & other media deserve their own separate sub-forums, I'm sure they would be very active.

I'm sure that would make the forum feel better organized. As I said in that thread, Dragon Ball is a franchise with a huge influence, thanks to it, fans all around the world are going to learn a lot of things and share a lot of experiences because of this franchise, and this will inevitably lead them to other content as well, such as learning about the Japanese culture, other anime etc, and of course, dubs, airings etc.
So, why not give these discussions their own places, and make the General Franchise sub-forum stop feeling like a disorganized discussion board?
Again, I really don't mind if it's not like that, but I truly feel that this split would benefit the forum and its members, and no, I'm not saying that controversial discussions such as “politics” should be allowed, nope, I'm in favor of discussions that go beyond Dragon Ball, but it can't be about literally anything, it has to be at least discussions that are similar to the DB discussions, discussing media and other productions.
It's definitely not your fault and you in no way should be blamed, people learn a lot here, and they have their individual interests, and you were simply showing your interest along with other members like you always did, but for some reason, you were prohibited from doing that this time, and the reason just doesn't make any sense to me.

I really have no clue if it's because the Forum staff are strong Dragon Ball fans and they don't want to moderate nor deal with discussions that aren't related to the franchise they like, or if it's because it's too hard to make new sub-forums. I really have no idea.

I just think this was unfair, these discussions have been part of the forum for a long time, these members love these subjects, your thread being locked must have really scared you, because this just shouldn't happen, if the rules changed, you guys deserve to receive any kind of warning or information on it, I don't think it's right for them to lock your thread out of nowhere and pretend it's always been like this, things should be more clear if a split is not going to happen.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I knew! I knew that someone would feel this way at some point! For a similar reason, there was this discussion a few weeks ago
I understand why VegettoEX said that, although I definitely don't agree with what he said that made you complain about in this post, but I understand it. The general sub-forum always have a lot of discussions that are completely unrelated to the Dragon Ball franchise, it's a fact that when you talk about dubs or airings, you're not talking about Dragon Ball, you're talking about the work of a company and other people that just aren't involved in the series’ production.

Is that bad? Of course not, if you and your friends are having fun discussing these subjects, then it's completely fine, have fun! You all probably wouldn't want to have these discussions in a different forum or site because not all of you would agree to switch, plus, you're all used to this forum, so you already feel comfortable here, there's no need to move these discussions to different sites, you can discuss them here, it's your right…at least, it was until now?

Again, I understand why VegettoEX said that, he probably feels that the General subforums always having unrelated DB threads can make new members confused, as “General Franchise Discussions” gives the idea that you're still going to talk about Dragon Ball, just not about it's universe, but about in Real life stuff, like production for the series etc. So discussions about dubs and airings showing up in the main page can make new members feel discouraged or just lose the interest in visiting the site, we have to be open minded, that is a true possibility.

The problem is, why complain just now? Why was it only now that he locked your thread? You and your friends have been here for over a decade. I'm definitely not part of these discussions, but I'm totally aware that you guys had multiple discussions and threads like that one, and what happened to them? Nothing, they weren't locked. I saw one thread you made that discussed something about Crunchyroll, it had nothing to do with Dragon Ball, the title made that clear. What happened to that thread? Exactly, nothing.
Then why did it happen just now? The forum staff allowing you guys to have these discussions with no problem for many years so far should be an indicative that these discussions aren't against the forum's rules. So what the heck happened now?

I know I'm not the kind of member like you who says “I couldn't feel more at home than here”, I've been here for less time and I'm generally not very active, I have no interest in dubs, airings, etc, I just pop up here from time to time to learn something new, post something If I want to, and then vanish, I really don't mind if the General sub-forum have topics unrelated to Dragon Ball, so I definitely would never have the same feelings as you, but it's important to be open-minded, that allows us to understand the situation and maybe think in a way to possibly solve it.

For that reason, in that linked thread, I said that it could be very good to have a split in the forum. If there are members who enjoy this place so much, but want to talk about something that goes beyond Dragon Ball, then why not create a separate sub-forum to make topics about other media, franchises, etc? The problem with “General Franchise Discussion” is already in its name, it suggests that you're still going to talk about Dragon Ball. Why not create a “General Discussion” sub-forum?
Or better, people here love to talk about dubs, then why not create a “Dub Discussion” sub-forum? I know that would be good, because let's remember, there is a “Music” sub-forum, I mean, why not make a sub-forum dedicated to Dubs and Airings too? These three are content that a lot of users don't have any interest in discussing, I know the Music discussions are more related to Dragon Ball, but still, doesn't make any sense to me, I used to be extremely active in that sub-forum, and for me it just shows that Dubs & other media deserve their own separate sub-forums, I'm sure they would be very active.

I'm sure that would make the forum feel better organized. As I said in that thread, Dragon Ball is a franchise with a huge influence, thanks to it, fans all around the world are going to learn a lot of things and share a lot of experiences because of this franchise, and this will inevitably lead them to other content as well, such as learning about the Japanese culture, other anime etc, and of course, dubs, airings etc.
So, why not give these discussions their own places, and make the General Franchise sub-forum stop feeling like a disorganized discussion board?
Again, I really don't mind if it's not like that, but I truly feel that this split would benefit the forum and its members, and no, I'm not saying that controversial discussions such as “politics” should be allowed, nope, I'm in favor of discussions that go beyond Dragon Ball, but it can't be about literally anything, it has to be at least discussions that are similar to the DB discussions, discussing media and other productions.
It's definitely not your fault and you in no way should be blamed, people learn a lot here, and they have their individual interests, and you were simply showing your interest along with other members like you always did, but for some reason, you were prohibited from doing that this time, and the reason just doesn't make any sense to me.

I really have no clue if it's because the Forum staff are strong Dragon Ball fans and they don't want to moderate nor deal with discussions that aren't related to the franchise they like, or if it's because it's too hard to make new sub-forums. I really have no idea.

I just think this was unfair, these discussions have been part of the forum for a long time, these members love these subjects, your thread being locked must have really scared you, because this just shouldn't happen, if the rules changed, you guys deserve to receive any kind of warning or information on it, I don't think it's right for them to lock your thread out of nowhere and pretend it's always been like this, things should be more clear if a split is not going to happen.

Thanks Rafa. I will definitely not do those threads that have nothing to do with Dragon Ball anymore. Thanks for your kind criticism.

And the reason I didnt complain until my thread was locked just now? Its because I really didnt realize how little my threads had to do with Dragon Ball. The MeTV one was the most blatant and I realize that now. You dont feel bad until you are actually caught... but I will take the criticism to heart.

[Rafa Fast]

I personally don't think you should stop making them, at least not as long things are made up clear. As you said, your thread was locked and you couldn't even question or give a response to it. It's your right to ask and respond to it, if the rules aren't specific, it's expected that you're going to make mistakes or get confused.

I read the rules and they say: "This is a Dragon Ball (and by extension Akira Toriyama-focused) community. Unless there is a direct comparison, correlation, or influence being discussed with regard to other franchises, we ask that conversations and contributions be about and solely about Dragon Ball and/or Toriyama’s direct works. Other topics that related to Dragon Ball or Toriyama beyond the baseline content itself (e.g., societal) are of course welcomed, so long as they are in line with the rest of the community guidelines."

With this I can understand very well that all discussions in the forum have to be related to Dragon Ball or Toriyama's works. Problem is, I saw multiple discussions (started by you and other users) that don't talk about Dragon Ball in any way, and note, "Discussions", not just one post or two in a random thread, but entire threads, I see them from time to time (that thread about Crunchyroll that I mentioned before is a good example)
These posts at best, mention Dragon Ball in one paragraph or two, but their main subject is barely any related to Dragon Ball, so why only the ME TOONS thread wasn't allowed to continue? Just because it didn't mention Dragon Ball like the others? If that's the case, it doesn't make any sense, because some posts in that thread actually did talk about Dragon Ball, the opener post for that thread actually only had this written:

I am so happy, this could air OG DB, DBZ and then Super in order so for the next generation of viewers the correct chronological airing will FINALLY be the best way to watch.

So this is just not logical to me, if a sub-forum split is unlikely to happen, then I think not only you, but all of us at least deserve a better explanation of how this rule works.

This is in no way a hate to the forum staff or anything, VegettoX and the rest do a good work, I apologize if I'm sounding rude or anything. I just think this specific treatment wasn't fair, specially because it could've been like how I saw in other threads. I saw threads before where the main objective wasn't clear, and what VegettoEX did was asking the thread's owner what was the objective of that specific thread, what it was meant to talk about, etc. I think he should have done the same in your thread, and not just straight lock it, that is a better treatment in my opinion.

CureDragon I think you should ask him or the staff about this, how far can discussions that don't focus on Dragon Ball go? what is the extent? What can you say and what can you not say or discuss? Because using those other threads as example, it just seems vague to me, from what I can understand, these threads can talk about any dub company or TV that has touched the DB franchise before, the thread just needs to make two or more references to Dragon Ball and that's it, they don't need to have it as the main subject.

Someone could say that the problem with the thread is that ME TOONS is not really airing Dragon Ball, but other old cartoons, and that CureDragon used this as a excuse to make a post about it while still talking about Dragon Ball somehow. Plus, many of the later replies in the thread are completely unrelated to Dragon Ball.

But here is another problem is, the EXACTLY same thing happened with this thread talking about the upcoming One Piece remake
And guess what? The thread wasn't locked.
So this is just not fair to me, why specifically only the ME TOONS thread was locked if there are dozens of other threads similar to it? I just don't get it. Also, I really don't like the "Specific User dominating the threads" argument, I've dominated the Music subforum multiple times over the 6 years I've been here, and no one has ever complained about it, why can't CureDragon do the same with the topics he loves to discuss so much (Dubs & airings)?
So I definitely don't think CureDragon or the fact that he loves to talk about these subjects are the problem, for me the problem is the lack of info on this specific rule, how much about non-Dragon Ball/Toriyama can be discussed here? I really think that needs to be "fixed".

But CureDragon, if you already accepted it and don't think it's worth to ask the staff how this really works, then okay, do what you heart tells you, I just hope that you're really satisfied with this decision and is not feeling disappointed.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

And hell, I feel your pain. I'm a physical media collector. I LOVE owning DVDs and Blu-rays of the movies and shows I enjoy, being able to actually hold them in my hands and know that some greedy corporate streaming service isn't constantly holding them hostage behind a monthly paywall. I currently own NEARLY A THOUSAND DVDs and Blu-rays, and have HUNDREDS more on the ol' wishlist. However... those days 100% ARE rapidly waning. Most people don't buy movies and shows on disc anymore, because the allure of the (much of it falsely manufactured) "convenience" of streaming is far too great these days. And there are a GREAT many shows and movies that are streaming originals that I know will sadly NEVER be released on physical media, and I have to simply accept that sad reality. It sucks, yes... but you don't see me making dozens of posts about the vast, unimpeachable importance of Dragon Ball being available on DVD and Blu-ray (despite how much I personally feel it and wish we had MUCH better home media releases of the franchise available), do you?

Same, I love physical media too and have made my fair share of threads on it, and while I'm grateful it's still alive today, albeit for niche audiences and largely dependent on online sales, personally I still feel (subjectively) something is lost with many people nowadays not being able to have the experience of walking into a store, buying a title on a whim or being in an environment with other people who like discs, but it is what it is.

I've accepted that my son will have a drastically different childhood than me (albeit no less valid) when it comes to media and won't know the frustration of renting a VHS tape the previous customer didn't rewind or how big a deal Xtra-Vision (our equivalent of Blockbuster back in the day) was on a Friday and the feeling of bringing a few movies home being an event. I know that he will have his own memories of what growing up in the 2020s and 2030s will be like though, and I will honour that as it will be what he will look back on with fondness.

I also get where Cure Dragon 255 is coming from when it comes to traditional TV. I'm enjoying the research I'm carrying out with Derek Padula learning about all the international broadcasts of Dragon Ball, and the more I do the more nostalgic I feel for linear TV. Its not as great as my nostalgia for home video but I still cherish the 2000-2005 run of all three of the original Dragon Ball anime series on Cartoon Network, CNX and Toonami. The promos were great and having marathons the channel organised felt like the fans were being catered to.

Nowadays streaming platforms give people more freedom, they can watch whenever they want and binge at their leisure. Looking back I feel the combination of broadcasts and home video (albeit VHS recordings as we had no Dragon Ball releases other than 3 Z movies in 2005) offered the best of both worlds. I get people prefer streaming as convenience rules, but I think there's plenty of valid reasons for people to like what broadcasts and home video have to offer too.

Or better, people here love to talk about dubs, then why not create a “Dub Discussion” sub-forum? I know that would be good, because let's remember, there is a “Music” sub-forum, I mean, why not make a sub-forum dedicated to Dubs and Airings too? These three are content that a lot of users don't have any interest in discussing, I know the Music discussions are more related to Dragon Ball, but still, doesn't make any sense to me, I used to be extremely active in that sub-forum, and for me it just shows that Dubs & other media deserve their own separate sub-forums, I'm sure they would be very active.

Because creating such a sub-forum reinforces the narrative about people who enjoy dubs being "filthy casuals" that is often pedalled around (and sure, I get in many cases its a joke but its very cold in nature and rooted in a disdain for dubs). We also have to remember that the existence of dubs are what is keeping the Kai forum alive.

I also think any attempts to move dub discussions out of the General Franchise Discussion sub-forum will inevitably lead to confusion. Even if you want to consider a 'Dubs & Airings' sub-forum, it defeats the purpose of moving dub discussions away from the General Franchise Discussion forum to begin with, because some fans might not be interested in dubs but a rerun of Dragon Ball in Japan may be of interest as they are only interested in the Japanese version and how to see it.

You might say "but people don't watch TV nowadays, they stream". OK then, but by that logic what would you do to account for the modern equivalent for how fans of the Japanese version can access it? The only way I can think of is by renaming this new sub-forum to 'Dubs, Airings & Streaming', but then what about the vocal minority like myself and Vegetto95 who are physical media enthusiasts? Then you would need to add "Home Video" to what is quickly becoming a mouthful of a sub-forum name.

This is why 'General Franchise Discussion' simplifies everything by encompassing all four categories, which would probably be inactive as sub-forums on their own. Oh, and let's not forget "Merchandise", I don't have much interest in that but I never had a problem when Baggie Saiyan used to post about it in the 'General Franchise Discussion', nor was I discouraged from visiting the sub-forum.

You don't have any interest in one aspect of Dragon Ball's array of media forms? No problem, just don't visit those threads in 'General Franchise Discussion', make threads that interest you and likeminded fans will respond or maybe even join this forum or login after forever and post because they never thought someone else would have talked about it until a thread name that interested them popped up in a random Google search.

There's just so many niches when it comes to what we can talk about when it comes to Dragon Ball it just makes sense to have a 'General Franchise Discussion' to cover all bases. Animation is another one that we see the odd forum in 'General Franchise Discussion' about, Cure Dragon 255 made one, but that also would also be inactive if it had its own sub-forum, especially with people like Ajay not posting regularly.

If people are not interested in anything about Dragon Ball other than the show and the manga itself why would they have to feel discouraged from posting by reading a sub-forum that doesn't interest them in full or partly to begin with? Why not just visit the In-Universe sub-forum?

[Rafa Fast]

Because creating such a sub-forum reinforces the narrative about people who enjoy dubs being "filthy casuals" that is often pedalled around (and sure, I get in many cases its a joke but its very cold in nature and rooted in a disdain for dubs). We also have to remember that the existence of dubs are what is keeping the Kai forum alive.

I also think any attempts to move dub discussions out of the General Franchise Discussion sub-forum will inevitably lead to confusion. Even if you want to consider a 'Dubs & Airings' sub-forum, it defeats the purpose of moving dub discussions away from the General Franchise Discussion forum to begin with, because some fans might not be interested in dubs but a rerun of Dragon Ball in Japan may be of interest as they are only interested in the Japanese version and how to see it.

You might say "but people don't watch TV nowadays, they stream". OK then, but by that logic what would you do to account for the modern equivalent for how fans of the Japanese version can access it? The only way I can think of is by renaming this new sub-forum to 'Dubs, Airings & Streaming', but then what about the vocal minority like myself and Vegetto95 who are physical media enthusiasts? Then you would need to add "Home Video" to what is quickly becoming a mouthful of a sub-forum name.

This is why 'General Franchise Discussion' simplifies everything by encompassing all four categories, which would probably be inactive as sub-forums on their own. Oh, and let's not forget "Merchandise", I don't have much interest in that but I never had a problem when Baggie Saiyan used to post about it in the 'General Franchise Discussion', nor was I discouraged from visiting the sub-forum.

You don't have any interest in one aspect of Dragon Ball's array of media forms? No problem, just don't visit those threads in 'General Franchise Discussion', make threads that interest you and likeminded fans will respond or maybe even join this forum or login after forever and post because they never thought someone else would have talked about it until a thread name that interested them popped up in a random Google search.

There's just so many niches when it comes to what we can talk about when it comes to Dragon Ball it just makes sense to have a 'General Franchise Discussion' to cover all bases. Animation is another one that we see the odd forum in 'General Franchise Discussion' about, Cure Dragon 255 made one, but that also would also be inactive if it had its own sub-forum, especially with people like Ajay not posting regularly.

If people are not interested in anything about Dragon Ball other than the show and the manga itself why would they have to feel discouraged from posting by reading a sub-forum that doesn't interest them in full or partly to begin with? Why not just visit the In-Universe sub-forum?

I would never say such a thing like “people don't watch TV anymore”, Dragon Ball is a TV series, if there are any reasons for many of the fans like you to be here, then this is one of them, streaming took a lot of years to become any relevant and still, and still hasn't replaced TV completely, so there are still a lot of of experiences to be shared and discussed, this is far from the case discussed here.

It's not a good idea to just antagonize this view, we need to be open minded and actually think how this would benefit the site and the users too, I said in both threads that there are good reasons for this split to not happen too, I keep seeing for example that these discussions have been part of the forum for years, they easily dominate the General franchise subforum, so people are very likely used to it and a split could confuse them.
But just think about it, how many times a different thread or post was possibly quickly “ignored” due to the dub discussions fastly popping up? There are problems in how that system works, you can't just say
“You don't have any interest in one aspect of Dragon Ball's array of media forms? No problem, just don't visit those threads in 'General Franchise Discussion’”
and pretend that this solves the problem, it doesn't, there are a lot of people here with different tastes and opinions, this is like if I told you "not happy about these posts criticizing the dominance of dubs, home releases & airings threads? Then just ask the staff to make a separate sub-forum for these subjects" it's not that simple, what I do is discuss many possibilities and suggest what a split could do, I don't try to jump to conclusions and pretend it solves the problem. I do think it could solve it, but that is my personal opinion, there is no guarantee that it would truly work, I have my reasons, like what I said about CureDragon's thread being locked.

And I know it might sound like that, but this is in no way a “our problem outweighs yours" discussion, I just started to notice that this was a recurring problem and thought about a possible solution for it along with other users, It's not like we consider these threads irrelevant, yes, they are for us, but we need to look outside our own heads, so we can notice that they are relevant, I know they deserve a good treatment, that's why I always mention the Music Sub-forum, I care a lot about most of the threads made there, and for me it's just no fair for that subforum to exist but not a Dub and Media subforums too. They would be very active for sure.

So even though a split is very unlikely to happen, you can't just ignore the fact there are people who feel a bit annoyed about this fact, not everyone agrees with that, not everyone feels that the general franchise sub-forum is organized, yeah, it's not a handful of users, but still. As I said, I'm not really very active here and I'm very used to it, so I don't mind it any bit, but I can't lie that I would've liked it. We're talking about this solely because this is now a discussion, I actually already thought that the dub & airings threads were dominating the Subforum way too much back in 2023, even though I didn't care about it, I considered that it could be a problem, and here we are, there are now more people who talked about it. Trust me, we wouldn't have this discussion if this was something that only I thought about, this would've been something I would keep to myself for sure, especially because of how irrelevant I feel my posts oftenly are here, but Zephyr had the courage to share that feeling, and I decided to show mine too, it's not like if we want it really bad, no, it's just a thought. It's great that you and your friends have fun with these threads, and it's fine if you think that a split shouldn't happen, but you should consider the opposite opinions too, after all, other users here (VegettoEX included) talked about specific users dominating the same sub-forum and the possible problems that it could present, this shows that this goes much beyond than just “we don't care about these discussions, move them to a different subforum”.

But I think this is not really leading anywhere, and I'm not going to adress the other content you mentioned because I already did in the other thread, this is a more of a complement. So I just say, have fun with your discussions, but be careful, after these “claims”, and specially, after what happened with CureDragon's thread, you probably just can't expect what is going to happen to one of the next similar threads. That's why I said that this treatment was unfair. If there was no problem with any of these threads, then why was CureDragon's thread locked?

But anyway, again, just hope CureDragon isn't feeling disappointed about it, and I hope that doesn't happen again, because if it does, you're probably going to be one of the next users to make a post here complaining, that's why you should consider the opposite vision, because I supported CureDragon and said that he shouldn't stop making his threads. This is a true possibility.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't mean to antagonise anyone and apologize if anyone felt I was.

As regards the 'Music' sub-forum I've said before that it is justified because people enjoy music in isolation, yes dubs are also audio tracks but the difference is that they are intended exclusively for the purpose of being consumed with the visuals, and the 'Music' sub-forum is barely active as-is.

Even if we had a 'Dubs and Media' sub-forum I still get the feeling purists who are genuinely interested in things like home releases, merchandise, streams, etc would be turned off by those parts of the brand they like being lumped in with dubs. 'General Franchise Discussion' resolves that issue by offering a place where these things can all be talked about in addition to dubs despite being part of a site that was designed with promoting the Japanese version in mind.

[GhostEmperorX]

As regards the 'Music' sub-forum I've said before that it is justified because people enjoy music in isolation, yes dubs are also audio tracks but the difference is that they are intended exclusively for the purpose of being consumed with the visuals, and the 'Music' sub-forum is barely active as-is.

raises hand for threads made there that have gotten little or no discussion recently

Concerning that department of the franchise, for numerous reasons it's a big topic in DB that you could potentially write books about that deal with how it started, the way it developed over the years, the many different names who've worked on it officially, products, controversies, etc that have happened over the course of either new entries or foreign adaptations.
But despite how big it is, not many have either a solid reference point, an interest, or both for the numerous discussions that have taken place regarding it (largely fueled by replacement/alternate scores in either the anime or in games). In-depth commentary/analysis also tends to be lacking at various times.

And the official side has more than its fair share of messy spots here & there, most notably concerning Funimation's US adaptations but also on the JP end for one bizarre reason or the other.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I wanna say thank you once again for the kind, polite and good responses I got.

But if Me TV Toons does air DB I will laugh evilly mwa hahahaha!

Nah, while I did mean that, I wont do anything until there is an actual official announcement. CN, Nicktoons and other channels ALSO started as nostalgia rerun fams, then aired Dragon Ball and became no 1! MeTV is unique in that its not really a cable channel but a Broadcast network akin to ABC or CBS, only more niche, but with MAJOR profit growth. Which so many people going Fuck Cable I dont need it, and those people are are nostalgic for the happier easier times they had before, wanting to watch shows they loved when being young.

Or heck! That happens, it airs... but I dont repost and let other user make the thread. Yeah that's just epic and "Chef's Kiss".


Thanks to everyone on Kanzenshuu and thanks Vegetto EX for not banning me right away.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

It's also not out of the question with streaming services continually raising their prices and more platforms opening up and fighting for content that cable could start to become the more affordable option.

Recently, crackdowns in account sharing and ads coming back with a vengeance have been cited as major challenges in making streaming the more attractive option to consumers.

For the providers we also have to keep in mind streaming services are absurdly expensive to run and maintain, especially coming out of the pandemic where a lot of them learned there's a limit to how much money they can make on streaming alone, to the extent a lot of them had to drop content to cut their losses because they can't just keep raising their prices.

Its no wonder that Disney had to give up on making their streaming originals exclusive to Disney+, and as of last year started releasing the Star Wars and MCU shows on home video. They had to explore more avenues for making money from those dedicated fanbases because they couldn't rely on them to stay subscribed just to rewatch shows like Mandalorian, Wandavision, Loki and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I'm not putting down streaming services but a lot of people are very idealistic about them and are yet to realize that the future of media consumption can't be so staunchly reliant on them, and at some point companies will inevitably be reconsidering things like linear TV which might not seem as risky as they once were.

[MasenkoHA]

It's also not out of the question with streaming services continually raising their prices and more platforms opening up and fighting for content that cable could start to become the more affordable option.

Recently, crackdowns in account sharing and ads coming back with a vengeance have been cited as major challenges in making streaming the more attractive option to consumers.

For the providers we also have to keep in mind streaming services are absurdly expensive to run and maintain, especially coming out of the pandemic where a lot of them learned there's a limit to how much money they can make on streaming alone, to the extent a lot of them had to drop content to cut their losses because they can't just keep raising their prices.

Its no wonder that Disney had to give up on making their streaming originals exclusive to Disney+, and as of last year started releasing the Star Wars and MCU shows on home video. They had to explore more avenues for making money from those dedicated fanbases because they couldn't rely on them to stay subscribed just to rewatch shows like Mandalorian, Wandavision, Loki and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I'm not putting down streaming services but a lot of people are very idealistic about them and are yet to realize that the future of media consumption can't be so staunchly reliant on them, and at some point companies will inevitably be reconsidering things like linear TV which might not seem as risky as they once were.

The average cable plan is $83/a month https://www.cabletv.com/blog/how-much-s ... r-cable-tv

A person can get Netflix and the Hulu/Disney bundle for like a quarter of that cost.


We're also seeing the rise of free streaming services like Tubi and PlutoTV

It's not being idealistic it's being realistic about which option is still more affordable.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, I've only used my TV for streaming for the past decade. Lately I'm only using my TV for the free service Tubi so I can watch Kamen Rider Ryuuki, which I would like to point out is gorgeously directed for a show shot in 2002 on a piece of shit digital camera.

The world changes, change is good. We don't need to relive such a silly part of our childhoods as cable television blocks.

[MasenkoHA]

Yeah, I've only used my TV for streaming for the past decade. Lately I'm only using my TV for the free service Tubi so I can watch Kamen Rider Ryuuki, which I would like to point out is gorgeously directed for a show shot in 2002 on a piece of shit digital camera.

The world changes, change is good. We don't need to relive such a silly part of our childhoods as cable television blocks.

Tubi has tons of great content making paid streaming less and less enticing. For Tokusatsu fans it has a number of Kamen Riders, a few Toku monster movies like Godzilla and Gamera and all the 90s Super Sentai excluding Fiveman.

I think physical media still has its purpose (being able to own something outright) but cable? Nah cable tv is dead. There's nothing cable tv offers that you don't get from streaming other than "Muh nostalgia"

I'm nostalgic for blocky VHS tapes and the sound of dial up internet. Doesn't mean I think we should go back to those.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, I've only used my TV for streaming for the past decade. Lately I'm only using my TV for the free service Tubi so I can watch Kamen Rider Ryuuki, which I would like to point out is gorgeously directed for a show shot in 2002 on a piece of shit digital camera.

The world changes, change is good. We don't need to relive such a silly part of our childhoods as cable television blocks.

Tubi has tons of great content making paid streaming less and less enticing. For Tokusatsu fans it has a number of Kamen Riders, a few Toku monster movies like Godzilla and Gamera and all the 90s Super Sentai excluding Fiveman.

I think physical media still has its purpose (being able to own something outright) but cable? Nah cable tv is dead. There's nothing cable tv offers that you don't get from streaming other than "Muh nostalgia"

I'm nostalgic for blocky VHS tapes and the sound of dial up internet. Doesn't mean I think we should go back to those.

Yeah, I still prefer to own physical media, but I'm broke as shit and selling off what was once a big collection to pay for life-saving medication, so streamers like Tubi come in handy big time. Streaming has definitely come in handy for just loading up a series and watching it when I need to. Some of my friends have been using Tubi, too, and finding weird little gems on there and then telling me about them when we hang out. It's pretty funny how something as simple as a few commercials on a non-subscription service is so good at helping a streaming service make money, meanwhile Netflix and Disney seem to be constantly fighting for their lives like they're stuck on the toilet with food poisoning or something.

I love the noise that a VHS tape makes when you hold it and move it around, but those things are basically a pain in the ass unless you're making a movie and need it for aesthetic/filmmaing purposes.

That being said, if y'all are looking for some non-free films that are now streaming I suggest Challengers, Love Lies Bleeding, and I Saw the TV Glow. There's been a ton of really exciting films coming out lately. I also suggest checking out Kamen Rider on Tubi, the directing and writing is pretty excellent or at the very least fun.