Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

Goku and co. are stronger than Beerus but haven't noticed because Beerus is gaslighting them. That's how I'm gonna take it now.

That's honestly how I've liked to see it, too.

Not to say they're way stronger or anything, either.

This thought has been around my mind recently, considering Beerus seemed quite annoyed when Whis complimented Gohan’s feats in the last chapter and that his heart is unfit for the destruction job.


Edit: 2,000 pages!!

[Miracles]

Beerus already used that ploy with Monaka. The nightmare is real fellas. Beerus is under the beds at night.

[QuakingStar]

Next thing we know Beerus is going to be shouting that the's the Champion of the Universe, and it was him who defeated Moro.

[Jack Bz]

I thought it'd make sense for him to be like "you guys got dangerously close to overtaking me for a while, so I started training again. I'm not going to make it easy for you"

[Noah]

How do you guys have SSJ Goten and Trunks, considering they managed to not be destroyed by Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Broly?

[Hugo Boss]

How do you guys have SSJ Goten and Trunks, considering they managed to not be destroyed by Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Broly?

In chapter #102, they’re more or less even with SS Gohan when fighting together.

[Sora Saiyan]

Hey guys, these are some real rough notes I've compiled when trying to calc Gas travel speed. I went through the manga, Super and Z and managed to compile travel distances mentioned via ship. There's some interesting bits here, in particular the distance between Yardrat and Earth, all but perfectly lining up with what is inferred in the Freeza arc.

Galactic patrol ships/ Iricos ship: New Namek from Galactic patrol base. Around three days.
New Namek to Yardrat 7 days
Yardrat to earth 10 days
Galactic patrol HQ in milky way 50 minutes from earth
Goku Teleport distance: Goku teleports to Galactic HQ at one point during the battles, so he takes Gas 18 days from Cereal (Heeter ship travel time from Earth to Cereal), then to the galactic prison. Logic would dictate that this is even further out.. in fact oil actually points out that the next warp is even further out than that.. this does appear to be in the milky way however due to the presence of Galactic patrol ships. His reaction to detecting Whis also shows he's now happy to actually get gas a real distance away.
For reference on how far they can teleport away, Vegeta (beginner at IT) can teleport to a defeated Goku on earth from Yardrat (10 days by ship)
He teleports to Iricos ship, so he's in the milky way
Whis tells Gas planet Cereal is a distance to great for Gas to warp to directly
Whis tells Goku due to his flying speed he'd reach Cereal in 20 mins

It takes Oil and Macki three weeks to reach Zuno
Zunos to Earth is just referred to as "some time passed"

18 days from earth to Cereal
Earth is closer to Cereal than Zunos

Heaters castle to Cereal = 2 days in Gas ship

Zunos is likely 3 days past earth

It takes 3 days for Moros goons to reach earth, after they state that they have the run of this galaxy, meaning they were in the milky way

Ten days from planet with hedgehog people. Seven three uses warp portal


You have to master your spirit before IT so gas at bare minimum can sense as far as Vegeta can


DBZ. Gokus ship gets to Namek in 6 days (outside of North Kaios jurisdiction)
Freeza calls the ginyu force when Goku is around halfway through his training, meaning that this takes them 3-4 days to get to Yardrat. This line up perfectly with Iricos ship taking 10 days to get to earth from yardrat

Gas should at bare minimum be travelling 4 galaxies. Placing him in the High billions of x FTL at the absolute minimum.

[Thani]

What's curious is that there never was any indication that Gas could survive in space that long without breathing, so he just went really fast before he could suffocate. Not unlike Jiren before the Tournament of Power.

But then again they don't seem to fight that fast at all. Maybe it's just travel speed?

[Miracles]

Nah we all know Dragonball characters fight that fast. At stupendous speeds even. Toriyama just never cared to define it.

[Hugo Boss]

While the series doesn't provide exact measurements of speed in precise scientific terms, it's widely accepted that the most powerful characters are capable of moving and reacting at speeds that exceed the speed of light. This is evident from the visual and narrative representations throughout the series.

Here are some of the most emblematic examples:

Goku vs. Hit (Universe 6 Saga)

1. Time-Skip Ability: Goku's ability to counter Hit’s time-skips suggests movements and reactions faster than conventional understanding.

2. Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken: It allows Goku to move at speeds that surpass Hit’s time-skips, making their battle a showcase of ultra-fast movements.

Frieza vs. Dyspo (Tournament of Power)

Dyspo’s Light Speed Mode: The battle is a testament to the high-speed combat abilities of the characters, with Dyspo’s movements being so fast they appear as blurs, even to other godly-level characters.

Goku vs. Jiren (Tournament of Power)

1. Ultra Instinct Sign and Mastered Ultra Instinct: When Goku first taps into Ultra Instinct Sign, his reflexes and speed increase dramatically, allowing him to dodge and counter Toppo, Dyspo and Jiren’s attacks with ease. Later, when he masters Ultra Instinct, his movements become even more instantaneous, as if time itself cannot keep up with him.

2. Jiren’s Speed: His ability to keep up with and even overwhelm Goku in Ultra Instinct form showcases his own incredible speed. Their clash is a high-speed spectacle, and he is even capable of interstellar travel.

[Miracles]

We just had Gas and Granolah literally fighting instantaneously.

[Hugo Boss]

We just had Gas and Granolah literally fighting instantaneously.

That’s because they were both using a special technique (instantaneous movement). I was particularly talking about physical movement.

[Noah]

How do you guys think SSJ4 Gogeta would fare against Super-verse?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

How do you guys think SSJ4 Gogeta would fare against Super-verse?

That's difficult, as we don't quite know how GT SS4 itself would compare.

We know how alternate versions compare, particular with Goku:Xeno's SS4 form being comparable to SSB at the time of the Tournament of Power and Broly movie.

[Hugo Boss]

How do you guys think SSJ4 Gogeta would fare against Super-verse?

My hunch is that it would be a close match for SSB Gogeta, but time would run out firstly for SS4 Gogeta, because SSB apparently has better stability.

[Almighty Majin]

How do you guys think SSJ4 Gogeta would fare against Super-verse?

I think Toei and Bandai have been trying to convey to us that SSJ4 and SSJB are narratively on equal terms so from that perspective, I would say that SSJ4 Gogeta and SSJB Gogeta are equal like how FighterZ portrays. A lot of people like to talk about why SSJ4 Gogeta loses to BoG SSJG Goku (for example) because of feats, but that is just not really satisfying and I much prefer the narrative interpretation of SSJ4 = SSJB.

[TobyS]

How do you guys think SSJ4 Gogeta would fare against Super-verse?

I think Toei and Bandai have been trying to convey to us that SSJ4 and SSJB are narratively on equal terms so from that perspective, I would say that SSJ4 Gogeta and SSJB Gogeta are equal like how FighterZ portrays. A lot of people like to talk about why SSJ4 Gogeta loses to BoG SSJG Goku (for example) because of feats, but that is just not really satisfying and I much prefer the narrative interpretation of SSJ4 = SSJB.

the expanded universe stuff only has that because the Xenos are stronger to start with.
They have more years of training before and go off to train in a time rift to their current limits right after Xeno Goku and Trunks first meet.
This implies 4 is actually weaker imo.

[SupremeKai25]

How do you guys think SSJ4 Gogeta would fare against Super-verse?

He gets stomped. SSG Goku and Beerus using 10% of his power have better feats and statements than anyone from GT.

[QuakingStar]

How do you guys think SSJ4 Gogeta would fare against Super-verse?

I think Toei and Bandai have been trying to convey to us that SSJ4 and SSJB are narratively on equal terms so from that perspective, I would say that SSJ4 Gogeta and SSJB Gogeta are equal like how FighterZ portrays. A lot of people like to talk about why SSJ4 Gogeta loses to BoG SSJG Goku (for example) because of feats, but that is just not really satisfying and I much prefer the narrative interpretation of SSJ4 = SSJB.

the expanded universe stuff only has that because the Xenos are stronger to start with.
They have more years of training before and go off to train in a time rift to their current limits right after Xeno Goku and Trunks first meet.
This implies 4 is actually weaker imo.

Did you not see the final battle of Goku Xeno vs Goku CC(Who btw had trained tremendously since he was introduced)? They were shown as equals from base, ss1, ss2, ss3, ss4/ssb, and ss4LB/UI Sign. The literal point of that battle until the very end was that they were tied from base all the way until CC Goku whipped out PUI at the last instant. SS4 is certainly not weaker than Blue from that battle onward, at the very least that is where they decided Blue and 4 were on the same level, and we can't use Xeno Vegeta vs CC Vegeta as proof of anything because it was never implied they were equal in any forms to begin with, in fact by the time of that final battle I would say CC Vegeta was stronger than Xeno Vegeta.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How do you guys think SSJ4 Gogeta would fare against Super-verse?

While I agree with TobyS that Xeno > GT, the gap probably isn't that massive. Xeno vs CC shows SSJ4 and SSJB have the same multiplier, and Base Goku has similar feats in GT and Super so why not group them together?

So if Xeno = Post ToP Goku, then I think it's fair to say GT Goku ~ DBS Goku by the FT Saga or so. That would make SSJ4 Gogeta roughly as strong as the Vegetto Blue (Anime version) we saw, and thus he can beat anyone short of Broly, UI Goku, Jiren and GoDs.