SSJ Grade 2: Faster or Slower?

[Piramid]

There are 3 possible scenarios regarding the change in speed compared to other attributes when transforming into SSJ Grade 2.

A. That speed increases only slightly compared to other attributes.

B. That speed increases equally along with the rest of the attributes.

C. That speed decreases compared to ordinary SSJ.

In scenario A, this would mean that Vegeta in SSJ Grade 2 increased his speed only slightly compared to ordinary SSJ. This would imply that the only real disadvantage of Grade 2 is that it consumes more energy. It would make you superior, at least for a short fight (you become much stronger, a bit faster, but tire more quickly), so it doesn’t make sense that, for example, Goku didn’t use it against Perfect Cell in the Cell Games when he saw that Cell was stronger than him. He would have had a chance to defeat him in a short amount of time. Additionally, the energy consumption didn’t seem as significant as Goku’s SSJ3 in the Buu saga, at least during the time we see Vegeta and Trunks using it.

Scenario B is similar to A since there is no disadvantage of becoming slower either.

In scenario C, if Vegeta loses speed when transforming into Grade 2, this suggests that in regular SSJ, he was already faster than Semi-Perfect Cell. Given that both had balanced strength and speed, if Vegeta was faster in regular SSJ, he must have been stronger as well. This implies Vegeta could have defeated Semi-Perfect Cell without needing to transform into Grade 2.

If we think that scenarios A or B are true, we can assume that Goku never intended to defeat Cell and knew that not even with Grade 2 could he do it. For Gohan, we can figure he either never learned how to use the transformation, or even if he did, he probably wouldn't have used it against Perfect Cell since he didn’t want to fight.

If we think that scenario C is correct, then Vegeta would have already been able to defeat semi-perfect Cell.


Finally, I throw out these questions: Were Vegeta and Trunks in SSJ Grade 2 against the Cell jrs? If not, why didn’t they transform to beat them?

[dragon boss z]

Probably option A. The daizenshuu says speed increases so that rules out C, but since the muscle mass gets bigger the relative speed per power likely goes down. Grade 3 just adds so much muscle the increased mass outweighs the power boost.

Trunks and Vegeta were probably not grade 2 against the Cell jrs, and the reason they didn't transform is because they learned regular ssj is the superior form. And yes, it's very much possible Vegeta could have defeated semi-perfect Cell without grade 2, but it's unclear. If he couldn't it would just mean he trained his regular ssj state in the time chamber to the point his master of it made it more useful overall than grade 2. Also the way you look at this highly depends if you think the ssj multiplier can change.

[Tectorman]

I have a different take. Something I call the “Grade Zero” theory.

There’s a problem with Grade 1 and Grade 4 both being x50: what about Grade 2? It doesn’t have the stamina of Grade 4, but it otherwise doesn’t seem to have problems in usage. There’s no speed penalty and Vegeta loses to Cell because Cell overpowers him outright, not because of an inherent issue with Grade 2.

So that begs the question: if you need the extra power and you don’t expect to continue fighting (say, when Goku puts most of his power into that Warp Kamehameha to end the fight), why not switch from 4 to 2?

So you basically have to allow for 4 to be more powerful than 2 and for 2 to be more powerful than 1. But then, how do you keep all the multipliers where they are?

I solve this by saying that Goku was never using Grade 1 on Namek. He was using an initial Grade 0, which has a x50 power boost. After that (and after every Saiyan first unlocks SSJ), when he figured out how to control SSJ and transform at will, the transformation went from the x50 Grade 0 to a lesser Grade 1 (I figure something like x30, since it would still need to be a better option than Kaioken x20). Then Grade 2 can fit between 1 and 4. Grade 3 would still be higher and never get used despite that higher power because of its other issues.

Why go this route? Why invent an unmentioned Grade? Just go back to what Goku says when he decides to fully master SSJ. He wanted to get rid of the restless feeling and make being SSJ as natural as possible. The way I see it, the restless feeling is the conscious effort to stay transformed. It didn’t exist when he fought Frieza on Namek because he was genuinely filled with rage over Krillin’s death. He didn’t have to make himself angry; he was already there.

But after Yardrat, he could turn SSJ whenever he wanted, but only by concentrating on being angry. And whatever effort is being spent there is effort not being spent on actually fighting. So, Grade 0 is the full x50 but with no conscious control, Grade 1 gives conscious control at the cost of some of the power, and Grade 4 makes the conscious control so effortless that you get all of the power.

(And we can even see a hint of this in the art towards the end of Goku’s fight with Frieza. After he meets Trunks, he says he learned how to go SSJ at will on Yardrat, meaning he didn’t have control on Namek. However, we see him power down and then retransform during his fight with Frieza. So while it wasn’t full control, he must have been learning the beginnings of how to consciously use SSJ.

But doesn’t that mean his multiplier would have been decreasing? Yes, but look at his muscles. Compare SSJ Goku’s musculature when he first fights Frieza to later in the fight; he gets bulkier as the fight goes on. Almost like he was using Grade 2 (or a proto-Grade 2) to keep his power up to offset the decrease coming from his fledgling conscious control.

This would also explain how he suddenly pulled Grade 2 out of nowhere when he and Gohan were training in the Time Chamber: he didn’t. He just bulked up the same way he did back when he was fighting Frieza.)

[Yuji]

I have a different take. Something I call the “Grade Zero” theory.

There’s a problem with Grade 1 and Grade 4 both being x50: what about Grade 2?

I don't think that's true. It's clear that Super Saiyan multipliers can vary. In Super we see Trunks matching SS3 with SS2. There's a reason SS2 and SS3 are described as x2 SS and x4 SS2 respectively rather than x100 or x400 base.

There's no reason for us to believe that Grade 4 isn't just a x100 multiplier and SS2 is 2x on top of that. It'd be hard to believe Goku and Gohan were able to get over twice as strong as Vegeta in their base forms as well if Vegeta is later able to catch up in the Boo arc. It makes more sense if the only thing he needed to catch up was to master the form rather than double his natural battle power during a period where he wasn't training.

[TobyS]

I have a different take. Something I call the “Grade Zero” theory.

There’s a problem with Grade 1 and Grade 4 both being x50: what about Grade 2?

I don't think that's true. It's clear that Super Saiyan multipliers can vary. In Super we see Trunks matching SS3 with SS2. There's a reason SS2 and SS3 are described as x2 SS and x4 SS2 respectively rather than x100 or x400 base.

There's no reason for us to believe that Grade 4 isn't just a x100 multiplier and SS2 is 2x on top of that. It'd be hard to believe Goku and Gohan were able to get over twice as strong as Vegeta in their base forms as well if Vegeta is later able to catch up in the Boo arc. It makes more sense if the only thing he needed to catch up was to master the form rather than double his natural battle power during a period where he wasn't training.

Trunks is just a hybrid and stronger in the same form like Gohan would have been if he kept training after Boo. I don't think the multipliers are different.

The only possible exception is Vegetas weird power in SS2, perhaps Trunks is doing that same mutated SS2.

[Yuji]

I have a different take. Something I call the “Grade Zero” theory.

There’s a problem with Grade 1 and Grade 4 both being x50: what about Grade 2?

I don't think that's true. It's clear that Super Saiyan multipliers can vary. In Super we see Trunks matching SS3 with SS2. There's a reason SS2 and SS3 are described as x2 SS and x4 SS2 respectively rather than x100 or x400 base.

There's no reason for us to believe that Grade 4 isn't just a x100 multiplier and SS2 is 2x on top of that. It'd be hard to believe Goku and Gohan were able to get over twice as strong as Vegeta in their base forms as well if Vegeta is later able to catch up in the Boo arc. It makes more sense if the only thing he needed to catch up was to master the form rather than double his natural battle power during a period where he wasn't training.

Trunks is just a hybrid and stronger in the same form like Gohan would have been if he kept training after Boo. I don't think the multipliers are different.

The only possible exception is Vegetas weird power in SS2, perhaps Trunks is doing that same mutated SS2.

There's also Vegeta stating Cabba is equal to him in base and then taking zero damage from his attacks once they both turn Super Saiyan, which makes sense if Vegeta's form multiplier is higher due to being mastered while Cabba has just now accessed Grade 1.

[LightBing]

Just looking at Grade 2, seems pretty obvious it's slower. Bigger muscles, less speed is a common trope. Grade 3 was just the extreme example.
Goku says SSJ is the most balanced form, so grade 2 has a flaw(s) even if they are not directly mentioned.

Plus the fact nobody else ever used it again, not even Vegeta and Trunks at the Cell games is the nail in the coffin.

[Hugo Boss]

I think the greatest flaw of Grade 2 is probably the high energy consumption that accompanies the form. Speed doesn’t seem to be an issue until it’s upgraded to Grade 3. Grade 4, while technically inferior to those in power, has the best cost benefit of power, stamina and speed.

With that said, Grade 4 has probably the best overall performance, but, if we’re talking about speed, it probably goes like this: Grade 4 > Grade 2 > Grade 1 > Grade 3.