Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 1 - Official Discussion Thread

[Cipher]

There's a lot I like regarding the new characters, the art style, the focus on the villains at the beginning. But I admit most of what I came away thinking in regard to this episode was how poorly paced it was. I just could not believe this episode had to be a staggering 32 minutes (and without any traditional opening sequence, traditional recap, preview, etc. to eat into that time) but still have so little real content. I get needing to refresh audiences and get them up to speed, but that does not justify a full third of the episode being us watching villains watching The Boo Arc. As good as it looks, that's insane. So much of this is just Wiki editor lore dumps: this trinket, this character's father, this set of Dragon Balls, this revelation about this species, this detail about Saiyan biology. The Dragon Team is barely in this, which would be fine given that the villains seem to be interesting enough to carry this. But when we finally see them (20 minutes in), they contribute absolutely nothing except for more lore factoids: Trunks is 9, add that to the Wiki! Saiyans get a growth spurt when they're 15, add that to the Wiki! Boo's bad air is back, baby, so add that to the Wiki!

Because of all that padding, it takes a full 32 minutes to actually *start* to get the characters de-aged. I mean, say what you will about Dragon Ball GT, but that show has Goku back to being a kid before the act break, leaving half the episode to play with the concept! Actually, this reminds me of DBZ episode 1 and how padded it is, and how FUNimation (correctly) cut out most of it. This could have been cut down to 15 minutes easily, and it would have been a lot better for it.

Still, there's just enough intrigue there to keep me going. I think the ideas are all there for a good, fun, interesting series. It just boggles my mind why they would pace this episode so poorly.

Continuing the proud Dragon Ball tradition of having terribly paced first episodes. (Outside of '86 and maybe GT.)

[BWri]

There's a lot I like regarding the new characters, the art style, the focus on the villains at the beginning. But I admit most of what I came away thinking in regard to this episode was how poorly paced it was. I just could not believe this episode had to be a staggering 32 minutes (and without any traditional opening sequence, traditional recap, preview, etc. to eat into that time) but still have so little real content. I get needing to refresh audiences and get them up to speed, but that does not justify a full third of the episode being us watching villains watching The Boo Arc. As good as it looks, that's insane. So much of this is just Wiki editor lore dumps: this trinket, this character's father, this set of Dragon Balls, this revelation about this species, this detail about Saiyan biology. The Dragon Team is barely in this, which would be fine given that the villains seem to be interesting enough to carry this. But when we finally see them (20 minutes in), they contribute absolutely nothing except for more lore factoids: Trunks is 9, add that to the Wiki! Saiyans get a growth spurt when they're 15, add that to the Wiki! Boo's bad air is back, baby, so add that to the Wiki!

Because of all that padding, it takes a full 32 minutes to actually *start* to get the characters de-aged. I mean, say what you will about Dragon Ball GT, but that show has Goku back to being a kid before the act break, leaving half the episode to play with the concept! Actually, this reminds me of DBZ episode 1 and how padded it is, and how FUNimation (correctly) cut out most of it. This could have been cut down to 15 minutes easily, and it would have been a lot better for it.

Still, there's just enough intrigue there to keep me going. I think the ideas are all there for a good, fun, interesting series. It just boggles my mind why they would pace this episode so poorly.

I remember hearing that this was originally a much shorter web series with episodes around half the length before it was extended into a full anime. I think that's where the Mystery Science Theater-esque rewatch of the Buu arc may have been extended to a full fledged recap of that arc. Someone correct me if I'm spouting nonsense. I didn't mind the recap though. Buu saga never looked so good!

[Gashaponista]

I understand that it is something totally subjective, but I can't believe all these pacing comments.

I just watched the episode for the second time and I feel that every second is well spent, it is a total enjoyment... The timing and development feels cinematic, well constructed to place us in the story and introduce new and old characters.
The ending left me totally hooked in a good way, I'm ready to keep watching this episode until the second one premieres

Maybe new generations need some tiktok speed, I don't know

[AliTheZombie13]

Maybe new generations need some tiktok speed, I don't know

I'm 30 years old, thank you.
I read somewhere that, when coming up with the idea of an ideal anime for TV, Osamu Tezuka said each episode must tell a complete story of a grander narrative. It must have a clear beginning, middle and end. This was like, what, nearly 70 years ago?

There's no excuse for Daima's plot to be this incomplete in its very first episode. I still have no idea what the motivations for nearly every single character involved are, and that is a problem.

[Gaffer Tape]

Maybe new generations need some tiktok speed, I don't know

Obviously to each their own, but as someone who can't really stand TikTok or short videos, I think I'm pretty safe in asserting that a desire for that is not my issue. If anything, this first episode's problem seems achingly modern, akin to that of the prestige streaming television series where the goal is to stretch out a narrative to keep the audience following to the next episode. Again, Dragon Ball GT's first episode has plenty of time to play with the concept of Goku as a child. Obviously it takes a few more episodes to get the ball rolling (Dragon Ball has always been a serialized narrative after all), but it manages to introduce its inciting incident within the first few minutes.

Ultimately, there's no hard and fast rule to pacing. It depends on the situation. I think a lot of this episode was good, albeit far more concerned with lore and dropping nuggets of trivia than with its own story. When it's not doing that, it's quite enjoyable, and its pacing is quite adequate. My main issue is that I didn't come to an exciting, brand-new Dragon Ball series to spend a third of that time watching reruns from 30 years ago. That's the episode's biggest sin. Hopefully the series won't be nearly as self-indulgent going forward because it definitely has a lot of exciting potential.

tl;dr It's not that it goes too slow. It's that it wastes its time on pointlessness.

[Gashaponista]

Maybe new generations need some tiktok speed, I don't know

I'm 30 years old, thank you.
I read somewhere that, when coming up with the idea of an ideal anime for TV, Osamu Tezuka said each episode must tell a complete story of a grander narrative. It must have a clear beginning, middle and end. This was like, what, nearly 70 years ago?

There's no excuse for Daima's plot to be this incomplete in its very first episode. I still have no idea what the motivations for nearly every single character involved are, and that is a problem.

To avoid unnecessary fights with other users, maybe my choice of words wasn't the best.
I said it feeling old myself, I know it's just a subjective thing.

[JulieYBM]

As someone with unmedicated ADHD and depression: I can't sit through older Dragon Ball anymore, but I thought that the pacing of this episode kept up really well. The facial expressions and layouts kept my engaged the entire time, which is something that Dragon Ball of old—even Super—really struggled with.

The whole 'younger generation' comment is really unnecessary.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

I watched it with my brother. We both really enjoyed it. It was a slow burn with a lot of exposition dumping, but I guess they had to give a preamble for new viewers and to set up the villains. Here's to hoping it gets better from here.
As for the wish making them the age of "first graders" I'm guessing that puts them between the ages of 6-7 by western logic, (I don't know what age Japanese first graders would be) which makes Stephanie Nadolny's casting even weirder. If anything Colleen Clinkenbeard's voice (not that she's my ideal casting either) would be much more fitting for a kid that age than Nadolny's scratchy nasally voice.

[Banduck]

I like the animation, but I'm not a fan of all the color changes.
Kibito looks very weird. Goku’s skin tone has changed again for the third time. Apparently, now all Saiyans, even the half-Saiyans, have the same skin tone as Vegeta. I just wish they'd finally make up their minds and stick with one color palette.

Also, I noticed they removed the blood that was shown in the trailer:

Spoiler:

[FiReFTW]

Maybe new generations need some tiktok speed, I don't know

There's no excuse for Daima's plot to be this incomplete in its very first episode. I still have no idea what the motivations for nearly every single character involved are, and that is a problem.

Which is how all great shows do it, theres something called build up, mystery, unknown etc.... maybe you just aren't for complex series that are deep, you want simple action, stuff happening all the time, which is fine, but you need to watch series like that then... Game of Thrones was very slow paced but was one of the best series in history precisely for it.

[Vegard Aune]

What the heck a wish made fat buu good?

I'm pretty sure it was meant more as "Made people see him as a good guy". Probably referring to the same briefly mentioned incident from the manga where half a year after the battle, they used the Dragon Balls to erase Boo from people's memories, only leaving the idea that Mister Satan had saved the world yet again from some sort of great evil. I would blame the translator, but really, even the Japanese wording was fairly imprecise here. But surely this story that starts off with an extensive recap of the Boo arc would not have forgotten that Fat Boo was already a "good guy" by the final battle? Surely even the ever-forgetful Toriyama would not forget that detail in a story that goes so far out of its way to say "Remember how the Boo arc played out, start to finish?!"

[Cold Cobra]

I had such a great time watching Episode 1, I'm sure if you could see me I had a smile on my face the whole time. Great animation and fun soundtrack, but most importantly new Dragon Ball characters! New lore! New story! That's all I really need, watching a new Dragon Ball show weekly along with everyone else is the world is an amazing feeling and it would have to work really hard for me not to like it.

[LightBing]

The long recap and intro isn't for us, long time readers of Dragon Ball; it's for the new folk.
Dragon Ball must be scary to get into with all the media fragmented into various series and movies.

The recap eases up the confusion, anchoring the set up with relevant information so that people will be invested and not completely lost.

[SHINOBI-03]

This was a great start. Yeah the recap of the Boo saga could've been shorter but I didn't mind it taking its time establishing everything we need before the wish is made.

[AliTheZombie13]

Which is how all great shows do it, theres something called build up, mystery, unknown etc.... maybe you just aren't for complex series that are deep, you want simple action, stuff happening all the time, which is fine, but you need to watch series like that then... Game of Thrones was very slow paced but was one of the best series in history precisely for it.

Or maybe I don't really like seeing:
*Character watches 20 minutes of video recap of things we've already seen before.* "Oh, I'mma write that down!"

Payoff:
Dende: *GASP!* "How did you know about the Dragon Balls?"
Character: "We watched a video!"

This isn't deep, chief. It's just time-stalling.
If you want a better example of things that are built up organically, add mystery, tension and interest to a story without felling like an exposition dump, Goku Black and Baby are great examples. This is not it.

[Mister_Popo]

Here it is at last, the anime we’ve been talking about for so long. Daima has had a solid start, in my opinion.

The flashback to the Buu saga could have been shorter, but I understand why they did it. It's a brand new series, and not everyone knows all the story arcs as well as we do in the hardcore fanbase. The story picks up before Super, so it made sense for them to do a more detailed recap. It also served as the perfect way to introduce the villains from the Demon Realm and set up Daima’s new plot.
This contributes to the slow start, but sometimes it’s not a bad choice to begin a story with a slow pace and then pick up the speed later on.

Gomah feels more like a comic relief character than the big villain of the series. Degesu and especially Dr. Arinsu seem to be the strategic masterminds, with Dr. Arinsu likely having her own agenda, different from Gomah and Degesu. She seems to be manipulating things behind the scenes.

Of all the ‘villains,’ Neva, the Namekian who created the Demon Realm’s Dragon Balls, comes across as the most threatening. He appears to have the strongest magical powers, at least for now. I’m not saying he’ll be the final villain, but given his connection to the Dragon Balls, I suspect he’ll play a key role later on in the show. That’s what I find most interesting about Daima: it seems like it will delve deeply into the lore of Universe 7, where I thought we’d already reached the limit and would need to look for stories in other universes. The Demon Realm feels like an entirely new universe on its own.

It was amazing to see our beloved characters back in 2D. And the twist with Kibito Kai’s defusion was hilarious to me. It was funny because some people still thought the story could take place after Super, and that the defusion might have happened due to a wish. But no, Buu himself was responsible.

The animation looks fantastic, and the Goku vs. Vegeta fight gave me some Broly movie vibes, with dynamic camera angles, high frame rates, and spectacular effects. If this is the benchmark for the rest of the show, which I expect it is, we’re in for a treat!

I'd love to discover more about Daima!

[TobyS]

Which is how all great shows do it, theres something called build up, mystery, unknown etc.... maybe you just aren't for complex series that are deep, you want simple action, stuff happening all the time, which is fine, but you need to watch series like that then... Game of Thrones was very slow paced but was one of the best series in history precisely for it.

Or maybe I don't really like seeing:
*Character watches 20 minutes of video recap of things we've already seen before.* "Oh, I'mma write that down!"

Payoff:
Dende: *GASP!* "How did you know about the Dragon Balls?"
Character: "We watched a video!"

This isn't deep, chief. It's just time-stalling.
If you want a better example of things that are built up organically, add mystery, tension and interest to a story without felling like an exposition dump, Goku Black and Baby are great examples. This is not it.

You are underselling it, if it's not for you that's fine but it's a bit disengenuous.

Obviously dragonball has tonnes of casual fans that haven't seen anything, new fans and lapsed fans who don't remember everything, a recap makes total sense.

It wasn't just the pun of a video, it was really fun to see these characters react to these events and establish their personalities and why they came up with the plan, the fast forwarding out of imaptience was fun, the animation was a treat, it felt the coolest kind of retcon to know our heroes exploits are being watched from afar, it's a nice break from convention unlike Moro and others our heroes hear about first or both meet randomly, this time the villians have forewarning of our guys but not the other way around.

The whole thing was fun or pleasent they got all intros, recaps, premise and hook in one single episode I find that weird people are complaining about pacing I feel like I watched a packed movie.


----

My questions about the episode.

If the old namek is the last one left, the creator of those Demon realm dragonballs and the creator of those crazy powerful DB guards... why is he following these idiots orders and getting in the space ship with them, summoning the earth DBS and recharging them for the villians.

Why not just let them use the Demon Realm Dragonballs? If he won't why is he helping them use others. I don't really get it? Why can't he add to his own life with his own dragonballs?

What's this about 3 demon realms? I never saw this line. What was the context?

While it's obviously an excuse for the premise of the show, I like that he can't hurt or kill them with the dragonballs but restoring youth to nerf them indirectly is a bit of an exploit haha.

[AliTheZombie13]

"It's not for you, it's for a new audience!"
You can't imagine how many times I've heard the same line being thrown around to defend bad revivals from criticism.
I'm sorry, but I don't really give a pass to Daima's status as a sequel for what I perceive as poor storytelling.

I wish I could believe that this is gonna be an isolated incident to hook in new viewers, but Super took the 5 minutes of Namek and ran with it for its final arc, so I'm keeping my expectations low.

[LightBing]

If the old namek is the last one left, the creator of those Demon realm dragonballs and the creator of those crazy powerful DB guards... why is he following these idiots orders and getting in the space ship with them, summoning the earth DBS and recharging them for the villians.

Why not just let them use the Demon Realm Dragonballs? If he won't why is he helping them use others. I don't really get it? Why can't he add to his own life with his own dragonballs?

We don't know how these Dragon Balls work. Even as creator he might not have access to them. Perhaps he could in the past and was weakened by old age.

Plus with the new white and black magic concepts, assuming they use the latter. Their range of wishes might be completely different.
This is brand new territory, we can't assume anything previously established works the same way.

As for his motivations, who knows... He might be just a plot tool and not be explored much more.
However, the fact he's - apparently - the only remaining Namek while the others "escaped" set's up for a bit more.

So far he's the more unsettling character of the bunch to me.

[Lord Beerus]

I found the first episode to be very aesthetically stimulating, and it's evident that Toei made sure the animation for Daima would please people right off the bat. But narratively wise, this was a terrible first impression to give viewers. There were serious pacing issues in the episode to the point where you could honestly skip nearly half the episode and miss nothing. This is only the first episode, and a good chunk of it already feels disposable.

I know the recap was to ease in people who aren't familiar with Dragon Ball's story in some aspects, but it still could have been done in a more concise fashion so that the episode could focus more on laying the foundation for new storylines or character development

I did find myself intrigued by the Namekian lore.

As far as the potara retcon goes... who cares at this stage?

I know (hope) things will pick up in later episodes, but man, this episode felt like a drag at times with how much time it spent on Dragon Ball - The Greatest Hits: Vol. 2™.