Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 1 - Official Discussion Thread

[Saiya6Cit]

It was amazing to watch DBZ MajinBuu key parts of the saga in HD animation, for the first time ever. I think I never even imagined that possibility in my lifetime, it blew my mind, it was well done, it did not feel forced or an abuse of nostalgia at all. At least not to me. I enjoyed it, it felt like a kiss on the cheek and, as someone who watched DB original's broadcast, it feels like a well earned one. I am glad they did not go cheap on the animation. It looks like DB Heroes' episodes, but even in better quality.

It feels great the fact that they are doing what Sonic did when they released a horrible design and then they changed it: they listened to the fans. When many of us complained of the low quality of several DBSuper Anime episodes. This Daima animation gives me satisfaction.

My hopes for Daima were high since the beginning. I was conviced it would be same as with windows: good version, bad version, good version... Super was the bad one, and this was already looking great!

It was engenging, I will totally keep on watching it.

Hopefully the potara thing serves to exemplify how this series is writing a diverging universe from the main story everyone assume's to know. Remember how they use to say: "Super cancels GT"? Well, thanks to the potara thingy, we san safely say that Daima cancels DB Super.
If the previous statement irritates you enough as to not to accept it, you may do what I did when they said that about GT: It does not cancel it, it just happens on a different universe. Have you heard of the multiverse theory, from marvel universe? something similar. The scenario has been explored before by DBHeroes. Even by the videogames. We should all accept there are different universes. With constants and variants. But all that happens in a copyrighted story (coming from manga, videogame, movie or anime) is what is canon. For that universe.

[Noah]

Well, I do commend you for apologizing. You're free to believe Super is the main unequivocally true continuity of Dragon Ball. Though, with all things that contradict the manga that preceded it, I prefer to just treat it as a separate thing. Until somebody comes along and officially tells us, "DB/Z -> Daima -> Super is the real continuity of DB, all others don't matter!" To each their own.

In fact, neither Super nor Daima is considered canon; Dragon Ball (1984) is a complete work that concluded with its 42nd volume 29 years ago. Everything that has followed consists of adaptations and sequels that may or may not be regarded as such by us fans.

As much as I love the new lore and how it tied with the Granolah arc, I'm baffled by the recap. Surely it wouldn't be needed if the 40th anniversary project was not ignoring 10 years worth of content for no reason so they need to recontextualize where the series is even placed.

What are you talking about?

[JulieYBM]

Canon is fake. It's not real. It can't beat you up and steal your lunch money, nor can it marry you stay by your side while you pass away from old age surrounded by your loved ones.

It doesn't matter. Just enjoy the stories as they come, or don't enjoy them! Just...don't apply more meaning to something silly like canon that clearly nobody making these works are all that concerned with.

[Rafa Fast]

Well, thanks to the potara thingy, we san safely say that Daima cancels DB Super.

No we can't, I mean, how? For now, there's nothing that indicates that, Daima so far shows interest in connecting itself to Super by using two concepts introduced in that series, the two explanations regarding the potara given by Daima and Super can coexist, there's nothing that says that Daima was made to cancel Super.

(Also, Super doesn't cancel GT)

As much as I love the new lore and how it tied with the Granolah arc, I'm baffled by the recap. Surely it wouldn't be needed if the 40th anniversary project was not ignoring 10 years worth of content for no reason so they need to recontextualize where the series is even placed.

What are you talking about?

He's saying how he's baffled by the recap showing Boo Saga and that it wouldn't be necessary for that recap to be made if Daima was placed after Super, but since that's not the case, they need to show us where this is placed in the timeline.

[No9tro]

Demons are supernatural beings and always evil.

Since when was that a rule? It certainly isn't one Toriyama plays by.

[mecha3000]

Have to say, I really admire Dragon Ball's ability to constantly expand its world. I didn't think it'd be able to go bigger than the multiverse, but they found a way with the Demon Realm, which Toriyama has hinted at for years with the Makaioshin. That's really fascinating creatively. Like, once Goku became the strongest on EARTH, Toriyama introduced SPACE travel, then TIME travel, then the MULTIVERSE and now different REALMS. That's something I'll never get tired of with Dragon Ball, it's ability to always change the status quo.

I wonder what the next addition to the mythos would be. Personally, I want a series where Time Patrol Trunks is canon and he recruits Goku and the others to look for Chrono Dragon Balls across seven different timelines or something like that. Maybe, Mira and Towa are in it too? Now, that I think about it, though, they could play into Daima considering it deals with Dabura and the Demon Realm.

[Rafa Fast]

Demons are supernatural beings and always evil.

Since when was that a rule? It certainly isn't one Toriyama plays by.

Maybe he's not counting Daima and that was officially stated somewhere before? I don't know, just a guess, but the trailers show us that Glorio and Pansy are going to help Goku and friends, and I think they are supposed to be majins.
Unless they plan to betrayal in the end, we can assume by their characters that not all majins and people from makai are evil.

Have to say, I really admire Dragon Ball's ability to constantly expand its world. I didn't think it'd be able to go bigger than the multiverse, but they found a way with the Demon Realm, which Toriyama has hinted at for years with the Makaioshin. That's really fascinating creatively. Like, once Goku became the strongest on EARTH, Toriyama introduced SPACE travel, then TIME travel, then the MULTIVERSE and now different REALMS.

I understand what you meant to say here by your excitement, but I think the "correct" for what you're saying would be actually exactly the reverse XD "multiverse bigger than makai" and "then different realms, then multiverse", Dragon Ball actually already introduced us to different realms long before Daima and Super, the Spiritual World and the Kaioshin world themselves already were different realms, with Makai only being one more of them, the introduction to the Makai is actually the natural follow up to the introduction of the Kaioshins and their world, as these concepts are all stuck inside the self contained cosmos of Universe 7. Then the next step in that scaling would be Hakaishins and Multiverse, as Hakaishins are stronger than all of the previously introduced beings and Multiverse goes beyond the cosmos of a single universe, introducing us to other universes, each one with their own cosmos (then later Zeno)
I believe that could be one of the reasons why Toriyama thought that this story should take place before Super, he wanted for the Makai to be introduced first, and not Hakaishins & multiverse (though we already have multiverse introduced in Daima)
Though I personally still wouldn't mind if the Makai was introduced after the Hakaishins and Multiverse, or if Daima itself took place after the entirety of Super or even EoZ, but Toriyama seemed to be quite insistent in making Daima as a direct sequel to the Boo Saga, so there is a clear need for Daima to be set before Super coming from Toriyama.

I wonder what the next addition to the mythos would be. Personally, I want a series where Time Patrol Trunks is canon and he recruits Goku and the others to look for Chrono Dragon Balls across seven different timelines or something like that. Maybe, Mira and Towa are in it too? Now, that I think about it, though, they could play into Daima considering it deals with Dabura and the Demon Realm.

A few months ago I wrote this

Now, this may sound like a crazy theory, but I think it's very curious that after GT, for 10 years the only anime/manga DB series with absolute 0 involvement from Toriyama was Heroes, and coincidentally, right after the Eternal Toriless era of the franchise has pre-started, they decided to end Heroes, why? This tells me that Shueisha and the team behind the Heroes stories and concepts would've liked to have their ideias in the main Dragon Ball anime/manga stories, but given how Toriyama possible didn't like anything from Heroes, they had to make a separate series for it.
No, I'm not making a crazy conspiracy theory about Shueisha being evil and waiting for Toriyama to pass away, no, I'm just saying what seems very logical to me, Heroes is no more necessary if Shueisha really wanted to use that series' concepts and characters in the main series, that could explain why the trailer for Super Divers looked so generic, with no sign of original characters, stories and concepts like Heroes had, because they won't use those ideas in a separate production anymore.

I still think that is possible, specially because of some of Heroes' concepts coming from Toriyama, and DBOnline's story (which was made by him) has a lot to do with the Time Travel and Patrol, Heroes is over, Daima is Toriyama's last story, and we don't know if Super manga have any stories that were already planned before Toriyama died. Unless Superdivers plans to be a "Heroes Reboot" and its stories are going to use those concepts from DBO and DBH again, I can see story that uses these concepts being what could be coming after Super and Daima.

[tinlunlau]

Just gave the episode a good rewatch on Netflix with English subtitles this time and it sure is nice to see this commercial-free. My first viewing only had Chinese subs. It's going to be like this for the rest of the season.

[TechExpert2021]

Just gave the episode a good rewatch on Netflix with English subtitles this time and it sure is nice to see this commercial-free. My first viewing only had Chinese subs. It's going to be like this for the rest of the season.

Are the English subs of DB Daima on Taiwanese Netflix the same English subs as the official English Crunchyroll simulcast subs?

[Goten_jr]

I don't really get why people are so obsessed with the]
So as long as GT does not get chronologically overwritten

That would only happen if Toei decided to make a new sequel to the Z anime that ignores GT, that still has to happen.

it kinda stays there as the only official Storyline post EOZ in Animanga form, even though it got contradicted by Super and Daima.

GT wasn't contradicted by Super and Daima because the latter two aren't in the same continuity as the DB anime-Z Anime & Movies-GT continuity, GT continues being the untouched perfect ending for the 80/90's Toei anime continuity.

There is no official established "Original 90's Toei Anime Continuity" DB fans themselves created this because it makes sense and they fit together very well, but I mean GT got contradicted by Super and Daima in the sense that they can't fit together because of Logical In Universe reasons. But at the same time GT is still not overwritten from a Timeline perspective. And i have a feeling they will not go past the End of Z in general

[AliTheZombie13]

If I have to be dead honest, if fans can forgive all the things that happen in Super that contradict the EoZ, then GT can easily throw the same argument at them. "Well, who cares if they never use the new forms, Shin and Kibito are still fused, their new friends never show up again, and all this stuff they learned is never acknowledged? It still happened, I swear! They'll just find a magical way to undo all of it by the end!"

If anything, Xenoverse acknowledges GT as an alternate timeline where they never met Beerus and Whis and everybody else, and I think that's the way they're going to go with Super/Daima/whatever comes next.

[Rafa Fast]

There is no official established "Original 90's Toei Anime Continuity" DB fans themselves created this because it makes sense and they fit together very well, but I mean GT got contradicted by Super and Daima in the sense that they can't fit together because of Logical In Universe reasons. But at the same time GT is still not overwritten from a Timeline perspective. And i have a feeling they will not go past the End of Z in general

I'm not considering anything said by fans, Takao Koyama officially stated that GT is the sequel to the DBZ anime, while Super was oficially said by Toriyama to be a sequel to the DB manga (all versions, Anime, manga and movies)
And if you're talking about timeline logic, well, by watching them we can see that the productions themselves are in line whit what was said by Toriyama and Koyama, GT is a direct continuation to the Z anime as the last episode of Z shows a Next Episode Preview for GT ep 1, and GT has all the filler material presented in Z. While Super continues from the Boo Saga using the manga as basis, even though the Anime version contains a few references to the Z anime for some reason, but Toei doesn't care about these contradictions, still, what was stated was stated despite contradictions and inconsistences in-universe, I'm simply sharing what was officially stated, that's why I say that GT can't be overwritten by Super because both are sequels with different purposes, so they're officially considered as two separate sequels, it's not about in-universe that I'm talking about.
If GT is officially a sequel to Z anime then they are the same continuity, so a "Official 90's Toei Dragon Ball anime Continuity" exists : )
-
Now I wonder, what if Gohan is not in Dama because he ended the Boo Saga being the strongest character, and Toriyama didn't want for Gohan to be stronger than Goku in this story? Because I believe that Gohan would still be stronger than Goku in kid form.

[Majin Buu]

Demons and aliens aren’t the same thing. Demons are supernatural beings and always evil.

It's not complicated. You're just applying narrow standards to something this franchise has always played fast and loose with.

In Dragon Ball, demons and aliens aren't mutually exclusive.

Coming from a different planet doesn't exclude a character from also being supernatural in nature.

For example, Majin Buu comes from space and everyone refers to him as a majin (magical/demonic being) instead of an alien even though that technically makes him an alien.

[Rafa Fast]

It's just like how I said before, alien basically is any kind of person or creature who doesn't belong to Earth and wasn't born there, that includes the people from other dimensions like Makai, Kaioshin-kai, etc.
What changed is that Piccolo, Dende and the other Namekuseijins aren't mortals anymore, if their origin comes from another world and not the mortal world, then they can't be mortals, they're now supernatural beings, just like how Piccolo Daimao was originally supposed to be, they're now same kind of being as Dabura and Boo, just different race.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Bandai moved a blanked Vegeta figure from the February to June, so it looks like they are playing things pretty safe so can assume whatever they're hiding for Vegeta happens during the shows climax.

At this point it's looking pretty likely that Goku and or Vegeta will get new/different forms.

[Banduck]

Some people say Daima is connected to Super because Universe 7 was mentioned. But the different universes were already brought up in the DBZ movie Battle of Gods. So, there's still a chance that Daima ignores Super.

[JulieYBM]

Some people say Daima is connected to Super because Universe 7 was mentioned. But the different universes were already brought up in the DBZ movie Battle of Gods. So, there's still a chance that Daima ignores Super.

The Dragon Ball Z film and Dragon Ball Super film both take place more than six months after the events of the Majin Buu arc, so there's no difference there.

[AliTheZombie13]

Toriyama did say "Super" starts with the 2013 anime, that being BoG.

[Rafa Fast]

Some people say Daima is connected to Super because Universe 7 was mentioned. But the different universes were already brought up in the DBZ movie Battle of Gods. So, there's still a chance that Daima ignores Super.

Both Kami to Kami and Super introduced the Multiverse, all of Super continuities (Kami to Kami included) are sequels to the DB manga, and the manga has its own version of Kami to Kami, so that doesn't change anything.
I'm not saying Daima can't ignore Super, but just that this hasn't happened so far, Daima so far shows interest in connecting itself to Super.

Also, multiverse is not only thing from Super that was brought up in Daima, as the concept of Namekuseijins not coming from Namekusei but from somewhere else was introduced in Super Granolah Saga.

That makes me wonder about something, I remember reading that Daima was in production for 4 years, if it's true, 4 years ago we were in the ending of Moro Saga, so that would mean Toriyama told Toyotaro to adress that concept in Granolah Saga as he was alredy working in Daima and its ideas.

[SupremeKai25]

Some people say Daima is connected to Super because Universe 7 was mentioned. But the different universes were already brought up in the DBZ movie Battle of Gods. So, there's still a chance that Daima ignores Super.

This is just spitting hairs.

Come on... yes, it's technically a DBZ movie, but it's practically a Super storyline.

Like ask a random person if they consider Beerus to be a DBZ or Super character and they will undoubtedly answer "Super character".