Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 2 - Official Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

I like to think the one-wish for unknown first-timers was just Shenron screwing with them. I mean, when the Frieza Force use the Dragon Balls to wish Frieza back to life, he doesn't limit them to one wish. He does make up this rule about the dead being restored to the state they were in before death, though, so he brings Frieza back in pieces. I think Shenron has a sense of humor. lol

Pilaf was the one who summoned Shenron so I guess that counts for getting 3 wishes.

[Jord]

SS Goku, SS Vegeta and Piccolo(Super Namekian) all look great in these shots from the opening

Spoiler:

Actually the eye focus is off on the shot of SS Goku.

GT's first arc was a mess, and this seems much more tightly written and focused so far.[/list]

That's just like your opinion. GT's first arc is my favorite one because of being adventure driven after all the lengthy fight arcs of Z. I don't see it as being any mess at all.

Yeah, it felt refreshing after the (too) long Buu fight. We get to know the 3 main characters a bit better at this stage in their lives.
Actually, the first two episodes parallel Daima as that both use a space ship that houses 3 people and they depart at the end of the second episode. The difference is that GT gave us less of an exposition dump.

[ZeroNeonix]

Pilaf was the one who summoned Shenron so I guess that counts for getting 3 wishes.

I guess technically, the new rule doesn't contradict anything if it's the person who does the summoning who counts, even though the Frieza Force were the ones making most of the wishes, but it does seem like the dragons can be as pedantic or generous as they please. I still think it would have been more consistent if when the Frieza Force attempted to make a second wish, Shenron would have been like, "I don't know you. You only get one. Pilaf can make another wish, though." But even then, there was more than one Frieza Force member there, and more than one demon in Daima, so why couldn't one of them make a wish? Ugh.

Of course, I doubt Toriyama had Daima's rule in mind when writing for Resurrection F. I doubt he even remembers all of the rules he came up with over the years. I saw this video as a refresher on the rules of the Dragon Balls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfVsMETBODU

There are some rules I didn't understand properly. Like, it was a common misconception that Dende's balls had only two wishes, but actually, it's just that wishing for multiple people to come back to life took two wishes instead of one.

While it seems like dragons are compelled to grant the wishes of whoever summons them, it does seem like they have some agency in how those wishes are fulfilled. For example, when Krillin was revived, him being brought back in one piece was apparently a special favor. Originally, a body would have to be preserved for them to be revived, and I'm not sure if that rule was ever actually contradicted. Then there was the time Shenron gave Piccolo that "little extra" power, allowing him to become Orange Piccolo. He definitely could have put Frieza back together in one piece, but he was like, "I don't like you guys. You get Frieza back in chunks."

[kemuri07]

The problem with GT's first arc is that you can absolutely tell that Toriyama did not have a hand in that project. I appreciate what GT tries to do, and agree that it's the right choice after the Buu arc, but man GT is absolutely a dud. I tried doing a rewatch a couple of years back after re-reading the original Dragon Ball, and I couldn't make it past the 5th episode. Unfortunately, GT more than earns its reputation even if I do have some nostalgia for it.


For Daima it's hard to say where it lands since not only do we only have about two episodes, but those two episodes havent' really done much to tell us what we're exactly in for. And I do buy the idea that these first couple of eps were probably meant to be one long episode to set the audience up for this story. That being said, I think there's a lot of potential to this series as it could finally do the thing and take this franchise in uncharted territory.

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

Fuck the notion that Daim needs to connect itself to that anime.

I honestly have no idea why people are obsessed with having this "one true Timeline" when no one working DB cares about it. In fact I think it's detrimental to that potential if Daima has to focus on also lining itself with Super so that it "makes sense." Screw that. If it makes things any easier, just see this as an alternate universe retelling. There. Now it doesn't matter if anything is canon.

[DBFanGuy]

Kaioshin needing a spaceship to reach this Universe implies he's born in another realm - very much like the Demon Real I presume -, then dispatched to whatever place he'll be working?

Hope they clarify.

It’s always weird that these deities and demons need ships lol

[Hellspawn28]

I don't know why they don't go to Namek and use the Namekian Dragon Balls to undo all of this?

[ZombieVito]

I guess technically, the new rule doesn't contradict anything if it's the person who does the summoning who counts, even though the Frieza Force were the ones making most of the wishes, but it does seem like the dragons can be as pedantic or generous as they please. I still think it would have been more consistent if when the Frieza Force attempted to make a second wish, Shenron would have been like, "I don't know you. You only get one. Pilaf can make another wish, though." But even then, there was more than one Frieza Force member there, and more than one demon in Daima, so why couldn't one of them make a wish? Ugh.

Of course, I doubt Toriyama had Daima's rule in mind when writing for Resurrection F. I doubt he even remembers all of the rules he came up with over the years. I saw this video as a refresher on the rules of the Dragon Balls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfVsMETBODU

There are some rules I didn't understand properly. Like, it was a common misconception that Dende's balls had only two wishes, but actually, it's just that wishing for multiple people to come back to life took two wishes instead of one.

While it seems like dragons are compelled to grant the wishes of whoever summons them, it does seem like they have some agency in how those wishes are fulfilled. For example, when Krillin was revived, him being brought back in one piece was apparently a special favor. Originally, a body would have to be preserved for them to be revived, and I'm not sure if that rule was ever actually contradicted. Then there was the time Shenron gave Piccolo that "little extra" power, allowing him to become Orange Piccolo. He definitely could have put Frieza back together in one piece, but he was like, "I don't like you guys. You get Frieza back in chunks."

Sorbet and Tagoma never attempt to do another wish though, they just talk about it between themselves but then Shu and Mai beat them to the punch.

It's not perfect but it fits well enough for me.

[JulieYBM]

I've made this comparison before, but one thing that I hope that Dragon Ball Daima employs is giving character development to other characters, even if Son Gokuu still gets the big fight at the end of the story. Something that Pocket Monsters did a lot before finally letting Satoshi become the Alola Region Champion and the World Champion was having each region have a secondary protagonist of sorts that we could see grow and change. In Advanced Generation that was Haruka and her rivals. In Diamond & Pearl that was Hikari and her rivals, but perhaps even more surprisingly, it was Shinji—Satoshi's main rival for the series. Heck, in XY we even got to see Alan grow across his own four episode mini-series before joining the main series and eventually becoming the winner of the Kalos League—something that none of Satoshi's prior main rivals had managed to do before.

I think that this is a notion that Dragon Ball Daima would learn from. Insofar, the story has focused both directly and indirectly on Shin. I'm really curious after these first two episodes whether or not we'll see Shin continue to get more central focus as a character, because I think that he could be the real heart of the series. If Son Gokuu is now like Satoshi and can not 'progress' or 'change' as a character, but must still remain the guy who has the big fight at the end, at least soften that by giving Shin a story and character arc that sees him face adversity and change and grow to counter-balance Gokuu.

Like, it'd honestly be a real let down if after all the stuff with Gomah, Degesu, Dr. Arinsu, Glorio and Shin in these first two episodes none of them really got followed up on.

I honestly have no idea why people are obsessed with having this "one true Timeline" when no one working DB cares about it. In fact I think it's detrimental to that potential if Daima has to focus on also lining itself with Super so that it "makes sense." Screw that. If it makes things any easier, just see this as an alternate universe retelling. There. Now it doesn't matter if anything is canon.

I don't particularly care about timeline nonsense, but I do think it's really silly how fans feel a need to insist that these projects 'pick a side' or whatever. I don't think that Dragon Ball Super is anywhere nearly as good as it could have been, but I'm not going to disregard it because it was clearly made with a lot of passion from a staff that was constantly trying to build a railroad with two hands tied behind their back and an on-coming train barreling down the fuckin' thing.

I also don't think that Dragon Ball Daima needs to connect to Dragon Ball Super, but the idea of expecting it to go out of its way to contradict Dragon Ball Super is also pretty dumb. These first two episodes don't contradict Dragon Ball Super in any meaningful way—nor do they appear to be setting out to do so—and are literally improving on big issues I had with it and I hope that it continues down this path.

[AliTheZombie13]

The problem with GT's first arc is that you can absolutely tell that Toriyama did not have a hand in that project.

Seriously, y'all need to learn to enjoy things.
Toriyama seemed at best optimistic, at worst indifferent about GT, so why should anyone care?

[tonysoprano300]

I wonder Chiaotzu looks like Given that he’s a grown man who looks like a kid.

There's a gay in there where Chaozu just doesn't look any different just waiting to happen.

That’d be perfect

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

While checking the character web page of the official English DB Daima website, I noticed that the page uses the name "Kamesennin" instead of "Master Roshi".

Could this mean that Toei (or Crunchyroll) is going to retire the use of the "Master Roshi" name… or not? The official English versions of Dragon Ball games still use that name.

The subtitles for this episode used both.
"Muten Roushi" was "Master Roshi", and then "Kamesennin" was left untranslated.

I also noticed "Flying Nimbus" was used once and then "Kinto'un" for the rest of the episode.

Modern English Dragon Ball subs are very inconsistent.

Anyways, I enjoyed this episode. Few more lore dumps but it wasn't as ubiquitous as the first episode and I liked that they felt more natural during the scenes they were dropped.

Funnily enough it gave me the same feeling the end of GT episode 2 did with Goku leaving the Earth for a new adventure, which seems like it will be fun.

Looking forward to next week's episode and exploring the Demon Realm.

[JulieYBM]

The problem with GT's first arc is that you can absolutely tell that Toriyama did not have a hand in that project.

Seriously, y'all need to learn to enjoy things.
Toriyama seemed at best optimistic, at worst indifferent about GT, so why should anyone care?

I mean, I wouldn't trust Toriyama's judgement even if he did like Dragon Ball GT. The series lacks a clear creative vision and is obviously influenced most by a producer looking to sell shit or push a bigoted agenda at the expense of telling a good story. There's a ton of good work to play around with in these to make a better series, but that first arc is really slow and doesn't make all the connections of making the characters really learn or grow from the experience of facing a capitalist hellscape like that.

It's like eating a pizza where you took it out of the oven after only five minutes.

[tonysoprano300]

The problem with GT's first arc is that you can absolutely tell that Toriyama did not have a hand in that project. I appreciate what GT tries to do, and agree that it's the right choice after the Buu arc, but man GT is absolutely a dud. I tried doing a rewatch a couple of years back after re-reading the original Dragon Ball, and I couldn't make it past the 5th episode. Unfortunately, GT more than earns its reputation even if I do have some nostalgia for it.


For Daima it's hard to say where it lands since not only do we only have about two episodes, but those two episodes havent' really done much to tell us what we're exactly in for. And I do buy the idea that these first couple of eps were probably meant to be one long episode to set the audience up for this story. That being said, I think there's a lot of potential to this series as it could finally do the thing and take this franchise in uncharted territory.

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

Fuck the notion that Daim needs to connect itself to that anime.

I honestly have no idea why people are obsessed with having this "one true Timeline" when no one working DB cares about it. In fact I think it's detrimental to that potential if Daima has to focus on also lining itself with Super so that it "makes sense." Screw that. If it makes things any easier, just see this as an alternate universe retelling. There. Now it doesn't matter if anything is canon.

I think the premise is a little more interesting here because we’re getting to explore the demon realm which is something that has always existed in DB ( I believe ever since Piccolo Daimo was introduced?) but has remained a total mystery, so it really feels like we’ll get an expansion of the universe by exploring an entirely different realm from both the living world and the afterlife. I also think Goku’s limitations don’t feel quite as arbitrary here, I do wish that they took this opportunity to shine light on some of the cast members that need it. I love that Shin is involved but I think id rather see Goten being brought along instead of Vegeta. I feel like they really need to flesh out Goku’s relationship with his son because he really feels like he’s second fiddle at this point lol

So that’s an area where I feel like GT was clearly better

[nato25]

The problem with GT's first arc is that you can absolutely tell that Toriyama did not have a hand in that project. I appreciate what GT tries to do, and agree that it's the right choice after the Buu arc, but man GT is absolutely a dud. I tried doing a rewatch a couple of years back after re-reading the original Dragon Ball, and I couldn't make it past the 5th episode. Unfortunately, GT more than earns its reputation even if I do have some nostalgia for it.


For Daima it's hard to say where it lands since not only do we only have about two episodes, but those two episodes havent' really done much to tell us what we're exactly in for. And I do buy the idea that these first couple of eps were probably meant to be one long episode to set the audience up for this story. That being said, I think there's a lot of potential to this series as it could finally do the thing and take this franchise in uncharted territory.

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

Fuck the notion that Daim needs to connect itself to that anime.

I honestly have no idea why people are obsessed with having this "one true Timeline" when no one working DB cares about it. In fact I think it's detrimental to that potential if Daima has to focus on also lining itself with Super so that it "makes sense." Screw that. If it makes things any easier, just see this as an alternate universe retelling. There. Now it doesn't matter if anything is canon.

I couldn't disagree more. This series is my favourite because of the world building and all the new lore that stacks on top of each other. To me it would suck if everything else was just disregarded.

Trying to fit into super would be so barely limiting, you just have to be slightly careful, there should be someone on staff who knows the series like the back of the hand, checks the scripts and then says all good or actually this has already been explained so just change this line. So far we just need Kibito Kai to fuse again and Goku to put the nyoibo back. Now that we're off to the demon realm hopefully there won't be anymore small oddball details.

Deep lore enriches the story, look how far Piccolo has come or how when you see Popo with horns and you're like I've never seen him like that before! When established things are contradicted it really takes me out of it.

[Yuji]

I don't know why they don't go to Namek and use the Namekian Dragon Balls to undo all of this?

Deaging = expanding lifespan = white magic
Aging = shortening lifespan = black magic

[Soba Mask]

I don't know why they don't go to Namek and use the Namekian Dragon Balls to undo all of this?

Deaging = expanding lifespan = white magic
Aging = shortening lifespan = black magic

What?

[Yuji]

I don't know why they don't go to Namek and use the Namekian Dragon Balls to undo all of this?

Deaging = expanding lifespan = white magic
Aging = shortening lifespan = black magic

What?

The dragon balls function on white and black magic rules, as established in episode 1. Deaging someone yields a positive result, adding lifespan, so it's considered white magic. Reverting the wish would be aging someone forward and therefore shortening their lifespan, a negative result, black magic.

[AliTheZombie13]

I mean, I wouldn't trust Toriyama's judgement even if he did like Dragon Ball GT. The series lacks a clear creative vision and is obviously influenced most by a producer looking to sell shit or push a bigoted agenda at the expense of telling a good story. There's a ton of good work to play around with in these to make a better series, but that first arc is really slow and doesn't make all the connections of making the characters really learn or grow from the experience of facing a capitalist hellscape like that.

It's like eating a pizza where you took it out of the oven after only five minutes.

I mean, the moment Toriyama said, "Dragon Ball isn't making enough money, how can I make it make more money? Oh, I know, I'll add a whole bunch of things and change its entire genre to make it more popular and appealing." I really don't care about the pretense behind GT's creation. It was a cashgrab, but eh, many things are.

Despite its most problematic aspects, I do find a lot of substance in that show. It has problems, but still, "GT sucks because Toriyama didn't write it" is one argument I wish would cease to exist. Whether it fails or succeeds, it does so regardless of Toriyama.

[SHINOBI-03]

Where was this Shenlong from the original series? Giving him a personality is one of the best thing to come of the new era.

And Mr. Popo with Oni horns was the least thing to expect under his turban.

And I know, having Muten Roshi looking like Kuririn is a callback to his first appearance but couldn't they make him a little more distinguished besides the sunglasses?

Glorio appearing out of nowhere with a mission to our heroes? Clearly suspicious.

[JulieYBM]

I mean, I wouldn't trust Toriyama's judgement even if he did like Dragon Ball GT. The series lacks a clear creative vision and is obviously influenced most by a producer looking to sell shit or push a bigoted agenda at the expense of telling a good story. There's a ton of good work to play around with in these to make a better series, but that first arc is really slow and doesn't make all the connections of making the characters really learn or grow from the experience of facing a capitalist hellscape like that.

It's like eating a pizza where you took it out of the oven after only five minutes.

I mean, the moment Toriyama said, "Dragon Ball isn't making enough money, how can I make it make more money? Oh, I know, I'll add a whole bunch of things and change its entire genre to make it more popular and appealing." I really don't care about the pretense behind GT's creation. It was a cashgrab, but eh, many things are.

Despite its most problematic aspects, I do find a lot of substance in that show. It has problems, but still, "GT sucks because Toriyama didn't write it" is one argument I wish would cease to exist. Whether it fails or succeeds, it does so regardless of Toriyama.

But I'm saying that GT sucks because it's not being fully written at all. It's a commercial project as much as the original comic, but Toriyama at least got to be creative. GT is bad because it's staff is restrained by commercial interests outside of their control.