Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 2 - Official Discussion Thread

[Yuji]

What?

The dragon balls function on white and black magic rules, as established in episode 1. Deaging someone yields a positive result, adding lifespan, so it's considered white magic. Reverting the wish would be aging someone forward and therefore shortening their lifespan, a negative result, black magic.

When I first read this it made sense to me, but after sleeping on it I wonder if it really is so black and white (no pun intended). Wouldn't a person's intentions impact whether the magic is considered black or white? The reason I suggest this is because if they used the dragon balls to wish everyone back to their normal age then by your definition that would be black magic.

Gomah's intentions were negative and nonetheless the wish was granted. I think it just has to do with the outcome.

[JulieYBM]

So, the voice replacements are only for the DAIMA anime or are they permanent?

That remains to be seen. These recasts were done because these actors are able to sound younger easier than their older actors. Unless the adult version's voice actors pass away these younger voice actors are likely only for these child versions of the characters.

[jjgp1112]

The problem with GT's first arc is that you can absolutely tell that Toriyama did not have a hand in that project.

Seriously, y'all need to learn to enjoy things.
Toriyama seemed at best optimistic, at worst indifferent about GT, so why should anyone care?

Pretty sure his point is that the elements that Toriyama brought to DB that gave it its charm were absent from GT from the very beginning, not "Toriyama didnt work on it therefore bad"

Nobody need to "learn to enjoy things" if they're...not enjoying the thing

[AliTheZombie13]

Welp, now that Toriyama is no longer with us, "Toriyama Charm " is gonna become a huge issue, I guess.
Y'all are gonna have to learn to either let go, or let Dragon Ball die.

[JulieYBM]

Instead of doing something more useful with my time, my ADHD sent me on a quest to compare the ages of the adult voice actors with the ages of the child voice actors for Dragon Ball Daima.

Adult (Birth Year) | Mini (Birth Year)
Bulma: Hisakawa Aya (1968) | Nakahara Mai (1981)
Vegeta: Horikawa Ryou (1958) | Mino Yudai (unknown)
Piccolo: (1946) | Yamaguchi Tomohiro (1987)
Kuririn: Tanaka Mayumi (1955) | Kanada Aki (1983)
Chi-Chi: Watanabe Naoko (1959) | Ai Kakuma (1988)
Kamesennin: Satou Masaharu (1946) | Kanemitsu Nobuaki (unknown)
Trunks: Kusao Takeshi (1965) | Yonaga Tsubasa (1984)
Dende: Hirano Aya (1987) | Goto Erina (unknown)
Mr. Popo: Kawazu Yasuhiko (1966) | Saitou Kimiko (1977)
Kibito: Aomori Shin (1941) | Handa Yuusuke (unknown)
Mr. Satan: Ebara Masashi (1953) | Sakurai Tooru (1987)
Majin Buu: Shioya Kouzou (1955) | Amuro Shiho (unknown)

[kemuri07]

Welp, now that Toriyama is no longer with us, "Toriyama Charm " is gonna become a huge issue, I guess.
Y'all are gonna have to learn to either let go, or let Dragon Ball die.

Not really? I'm also someone whose pretty adamant that Super very much proved that Toriyama could do bad on his own. So it's not even that I think Toriyama has this magic touch, especially when I think that by the time Super came out, Toriyama had long since past his prime.

I don't like the idea that I have to accept Dragon Ball as it is just because I like the franchise. No I don't. In fact, I am actively hard on Dragon Ball because it's one of my favorite anime of all time. I'm not going to settle just because "at least we're getting something."

And yes, I would more than okay with letting Dragon Ball die a dignified death rather than its corpse be paraded about just because it makes people money.

[AliTheZombie13]

Not really? I'm also someone whose pretty adamant that Super very much proved that Toriyama could do bad on his own. So it's not even that I think Toriyama has this magic touch, especially when I think that by the time Super came out, Toriyama had long since past his prime.

I don't like the idea that I have to accept Dragon Ball as it is just because I like the franchise. No I don't. In fact, I am actively hard on Dragon Ball because it's one of my favorite anime of all time. I'm not going to settle just because "at least we're getting something."

And yes, I would more than okay with letting Dragon Ball die a dignified death rather than its corpse be paraded about just because it makes people money.

I'm completely neutral.
Toriyama did good, but I was already thinking he could do bad ever since Namek.
I didn't care then, I don't care now.

All I'm saying is, I'm not gonna automatically reject another author's take on his work just because this invisible defined-by-the-fandom charm is a thing. That's not what Toriyama would want me to do, anyway, if his statements about the Z movies and GT are to be taken seriously.

If the story is bad, I'll call it bad. If it's good, I'll call it good. That simple.
Though I agree, Dragon Ball should've stayed dead long ago.

[Soba Mask]

The dragon balls function on white and black magic rules, as established in episode 1. Deaging someone yields a positive result, adding lifespan, so it's considered white magic. Reverting the wish would be aging someone forward and therefore shortening their lifespan, a negative result, black magic.

You are aware that they will use the DB again to get back to normal? So why not using Porunga first instead of panicking how to get back?

They haven't mentioned they're using the dragon balls and even if they are, it's more likely the demon realm DBs function on black magic instead.

So headcanon... As if Goku and knew about white and black magic.

It's simply for the plot and it is stupid.

But let me guess... Everything will be explained like Kibitokai defusing stuff and Shin being from demon realm instead of a divine tree and some fruit.

Well but maybe I should let it go... And enjoy the show and forget the plot holes...

[jjgp1112]

Welp, now that Toriyama is no longer with us, "Toriyama Charm " is gonna become a huge issue, I guess.
Y'all are gonna have to learn to either let go, or let Dragon Ball die.

Okay.

[kemuri07]

Not really? I'm also someone whose pretty adamant that Super very much proved that Toriyama could do bad on his own. So it's not even that I think Toriyama has this magic touch, especially when I think that by the time Super came out, Toriyama had long since past his prime.

I don't like the idea that I have to accept Dragon Ball as it is just because I like the franchise. No I don't. In fact, I am actively hard on Dragon Ball because it's one of my favorite anime of all time. I'm not going to settle just because "at least we're getting something."

And yes, I would more than okay with letting Dragon Ball die a dignified death rather than its corpse be paraded about just because it makes people money.

I'm completely neutral.
Toriyama did good, but I was already thinking he could do bad ever since Namek.
I didn't care then, I don't care now.

All I'm saying is, I'm not gonna automatically reject another author's take on his work just because this invisible fandom-created charm is a thing. That's not what Toriyama would want me to do, anyway, if his statements about the Z movies and GT are to be taken seriously.

If the story is bad, I'll call it bad. If it's good, I'll call it good. That simple.
Though I agree, Dragon Ball should've stayed dead long ago.

What I mean is less that GT is bad because Akira Toriyama had nothing to do with it, and more that GT's attempt to imitate the earlier days of Dragon Ball is apparent, and ultimately doesn't work. It's a comparison the show makes itself so its near impossible to not view it within that lens. GT, Super, and Daima are all attempting to evoke specific moments in Dragon Ball's pass, so I take no issue with staking them against the heights of Dragon Ball. I'm all for writers doing their own thing and I almost always encourage it, but that's not what's been happening with this franchise.

For Daima, we'll see.

[PeteyVX]

The dragon balls function on white and black magic rules, as established in episode 1. Deaging someone yields a positive result, adding lifespan, so it's considered white magic. Reverting the wish would be aging someone forward and therefore shortening their lifespan, a negative result, black magic.

When I first read this it made sense to me, but after sleeping on it I wonder if it really is so black and white (no pun intended). Wouldn't a person's intentions impact whether the magic is considered black or white? The reason I suggest this is because if they used the dragon balls to wish everyone back to their normal age then by your definition that would be black magic.

Gomah's intentions were negative and nonetheless the wish was granted. I think it just has to do with the outcome.

You're right about the intentions, but if we insist that wishing for someone to increase in age (therefore shortening their lifespan) must be black magic then based on that understanding Shenlong wouldn't be able to return everyone to their normal age. Even though we can assume it's what most of them would want (I exclude Kamesennin cause he's the happiest character in the show right now) by your definition it would be black magic.

You are aware that they will use the DB again to get back to normal? So why not using Porunga first instead of panicking how to get back?

They haven't mentioned they're using the dragon balls and even if they are, it's more likely the demon realm DBs function on black magic instead.

I do like this as a possible explanation regarding the "wishing rules" we are attempting to understand. If you are correct that aging a person by wish must always be considered black magic, then one potential way to solve the problem would be to utilize a Dragon that grants black magic wishes (possibly the Dai-makai Dragon) but I'm not sure we have any evidence yet that that's how he works.

I'm also still not fully convinced that Shenlong couldn't wish everyone back to their previous age. Whether or not he will, however, is questionable.

[AliTheZombie13]

What I mean is less that GT is bad because Akira Toriyama had nothing to do with it, and more that GT's attempt to imitate the earlier days of Dragon Ball is apparent, and ultimately doesn't work. It's a comparison the show makes itself so its near impossible to not view it within that lens.

IMO, GT did enough to set it apart from the other shows.
The Pan/Giru/Goku development and the Baby arc in particular are well welcome in my book.
The Evil Dragons, albeit badly executed and mostly MotW, were a great ending.
Super 17 can go fuck itself, though.

GT, Super, and Daima are all attempting to evoke specific moments in Dragon Ball's pass, so I take no issue with staking them against the heights of Dragon Ball. I'm all for writers doing their own thing and I almost always encourage it, but that's not what's been happening with this franchise.

For Daima, we'll see.

I mean, Daima so far has enough similar beats to GT that y'all can't help but compare it to it all the time, so...

[Grimlock]

(besides my desire for Towa and Mira to be used in some way)

You know, the way Mira and Towa were taken out of the spotlight in Dragon Ball Heroes was a little bit abrupt, it's almost like as if...

[Yuji]

So headcanon... As if Goku and knew about white and black magic.

It's simply for the plot and it is stupid.

But let me guess... Everything will be explained like Kibitokai defusing stuff and Shin being from demon realm instead of a divine tree and some fruit.

Well but maybe I should let it go... And enjoy the show and forget the plot holes...

Obviously, it's all speculation. We're 2 episodes into the show. What the show has established is that "Dragon balls" function on white vs black magic rules. We make our inferences from there until more concrete information is provided. You can lay out your criticism against the show's contrivances and conveniences once everything is finished.

Anyway, regardless of whether or not Porunga or Shenlong can undo the wish, the fact is that rescuing Dende is the pressing issue at hand and there are no shortage of occasions in the series previously where characters have been single-minded and overlooked potential shortcuts.

[super michael]

So far I enjoy watching Dragon Ball Daima, they even explain why Shenron didn't grant the Demon King more than 1 wish and why the Z fighters are struggling to fly. I can't wait to see what their adventure will be like.

Plus we know that Bulma is reparing Kaioshin ship, so more fighters will be involved.

I wasn't expecting Dende to be a baby, I assume he is the same age like Gohan a teenager. Piccolo is only 4 years older than Gohan.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I have a prediction that Toyotaro will make a "Demon Realm arc" in the Super manga that tries to reconcile both series together somehow, basically retell the story of Daima with some occasional cutaways to whatever Beerus and Whis were up to at the time, but that will probably be the extent of it.

I mean, really, you'd have to think that Neko Majin is the perfect little gift sitting at the centre of the "Daima/Late Super-End of DB/Utilisable Toriyama Legacy Works" Venn Diagram, wouldn't you?

Pretty much the definition of Low Hanging Fruit, right there.

[TechExpert2021]

So I've seen the second episode and found it to be an improvement over the first episode in regards to the episode's pacing.

[super michael]

In GT for some reason they forgot abilities that they have such as flight and healing. The reason that Goku, Trunks and Pan lost the space ship, was because they only relied on IT but didn't think of just flying to the space ship.

Oob, KibitoKai, Majin Boo and Dende should be able to heal others.

Don't get me wrong I still like GT.

[TechExpert2021]

In GT for some reason they forgot abilities that they have such as flight and healing.

Goku in GT as a kid also couldn't properly use Shunkan Idou (teleportation).

[super michael]

In GT for some reason they forgot abilities that they have such as flight and healing.

Goku in GT as a kid also couldn't properly use Shunkan Idou (teleportation).

They explained why Goku couldn't use Shunkan Idou, but they never explained why Goku, Trunks and Pan couldn't just fly to the ship. Surely if they lost sight of the ship, they could just fly high to get a better view.

Why did they have to walk around only.