Do you think GT Goku and Vegeta are stronger than their Super counterparts?

[JulieYBM]

I'm only going to say 'yes' because Dragon Ball GT takes place years after the events of Dragon Ball Super. At the end of the day, I'm just not sure what the point is of thinking about it, though. I think the big failure of that fight between Super Saiyan Blue Gokuu and Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu in Super Dragon Ball Heroes was that that fight didn't have a story to it. "They show up and fight for a second, coming to a stalemate." Yeah, okay, so what? Honestly, I'd have loved to put those two characters together to have to interact and come into conflict over something for a bit before finally fighting. That would have at least been entertaining.

[AliTheZombie13]

I'm only going to say 'yes' because Dragon Ball GT takes place years after the events of Dragon Ball Super. At the end of the day, I'm just not sure what the point is of thinking about it, though. I think the big failure of that fight between Super Saiyan Blue Gokuu and Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu in Super Dragon Ball Heroes was that that fight didn't have a story to it. "They show up and fight for a second, coming to a stalemate." Yeah, okay, so what? Honestly, I'd have loved to put those two characters together to have to interact and come into conflict over something for a bit before finally fighting. That would have at least been entertaining.

GT Goku: "YOU FORGOT YOU HAD A GRANDDAUGHTER????"
Super Goku: "Uuuuhhhh so what? It's Gohan and Chichi's job to take care of her isn't it? I don't care, let's fight!!!!"
GT Goku: "..." (starts beating the shit out of Super Goku)

[JulieYBM]

I'm only going to say 'yes' because Dragon Ball GT takes place years after the events of Dragon Ball Super. At the end of the day, I'm just not sure what the point is of thinking about it, though. I think the big failure of that fight between Super Saiyan Blue Gokuu and Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu in Super Dragon Ball Heroes was that that fight didn't have a story to it. "They show up and fight for a second, coming to a stalemate." Yeah, okay, so what? Honestly, I'd have loved to put those two characters together to have to interact and come into conflict over something for a bit before finally fighting. That would have at least been entertaining.

GT Goku: "YOU FORGOT YOU HAD A GRANDDAUGHTER????"
Super Goku: "Uuuuhhhh so what? It's Gohan and Chichi's job to take care of her isn't it? I don't care, let's fight!!!!"
GT Goku: "..." (starts beating the shit out of Super Goku)

I want Emo Gokuu who had the Gokuu-ness torn out of him by something tragic to contrast with Dragon Ball Super Gokuu. That would be so much more fun lol.

[Peach]

I'm only going to say 'yes' because Dragon Ball GT takes place years after the events of Dragon Ball Super. At the end of the day, I'm just not sure what the point is of thinking about it, though. I think the big failure of that fight between Super Saiyan Blue Gokuu and Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu in Super Dragon Ball Heroes was that that fight didn't have a story to it. "They show up and fight for a second, coming to a stalemate." Yeah, okay, so what? Honestly, I'd have loved to put those two characters together to have to interact and come into conflict over something for a bit before finally fighting. That would have at least been entertaining.

That's why I lean towards GT being stronger. More time has passed. That's more experience and training.

I know the universe quakes when Beerus and Goku punch each other, but still. It doesn't really "feel" like that much of a leap from Cell who can blow away a solar system or Buu & Gottenks who can open holes in dimensions.

[Koitsukai]

Yes. It seems like God, Blue, Blue Evolution are just forms slightly stronger than 3. I never got the impression that they were as strong as people hype them up to be.

You mean SS Goku not being able to make Jiren even budge, then SSG Goku just making him use one finger, and SSB requiring Jiren to actually fight back gave you the impression that it’s all pretty much the same?
So, not moving, using one finger and then having to use the entire body, not to mention SSBE is at least a 20x boost on top of SSB, all of this is only a slight increase in power from SS3? ok...

In any case the hyping up comes from Toei not from "people".

[Yuji]

Any time Goku goes from 3 to God in the manga, it's a huge difference. In the Zeno Exhibition, the Gods acknowledge his power. He one shots SS3-tier Trunks with it. Goku starts destroying the Galactic patrol base as soon as he starts transforming.

It's always been portrayed as a different realm of power.

[theherodjl]

My own headcanon is that SSJG is SSJ multipled by SSJ, or 50 times 50. I just came up with that because Goku was still able to challenge Beerus with SSJ after SSJG's time ran out, but he maintained SSJG's power within SSJ, effectively making it a power up contained within a power up in that fight. Goku would be 2,500 times stronger than his base with SSJG, which is 6.25 times stronger than SSJ3. I think that would also fit with the manga's SSJG's depiction being thoroughly superior to SSJ3.

[Peach]

Yes. It seems like God, Blue, Blue Evolution are just forms slightly stronger than 3. I never got the impression that they were as strong as people hype them up to be.

You mean SS Goku not being able to make Jiren even budge, then SSG Goku just making him use one finger, and SSB requiring Jiren to actually fight back gave you the impression that it’s all pretty much the same?
So, not moving, using one finger and then having to use the entire body, not to mention SSBE is at least a 20x boost on top of SSB, all of this is only a slight increase in power from SS3? ok...

In any case the hyping up comes from Toei not from "people".

No.

It used to be a ritual that caused Goku to absorb the power of a god into his natural form. It was implied that the blue hair was just what super saiyan looked like when after they absorbed the power of a god.

That all changed when they moved over to an ongoing series for TV. Super Saiyan God just became another form after 3 instead of a power that Goku naturally absorbed. Super Saiyan Blue is no longer a saiyan with the power of God using Super Saiyan - It's just the second form after 3. And no matter how strong Goku and Vegeta get now, they're never as strong as Beerus. They're just doomed to be between 3 and Beerus forever.

The lifting strength of Vegeta against Magetta is pathetically low, Goku & Vegeta struggling to lift those vests when Champa came to visit, Goku getting damaged by a bullet, Goku Black nearly dying to a bullet against Mai, Goku nearly dying from a common Frieza Force laser, Goku and Vegeta getting knocked unconscious be Merus' stun gun, Android 17 catching up so easily, and Super Saiyan 2 Trunks not dying instantly to Black Goku. These things and more make me realize that people greatly exaggerate their strength in DBS. These Super forms just seem to enhance their martial arts abilities and fighting skills, but not their actual raw power beyond Z too much.

I'm willing to say GT is stronger because again, it's a more experienced Goku further in the timeline and he had enough power to "light up a galaxy" just by powering up in base. Plus, there's just tons and tons of feats suggested by dialog alone. A random thug in the machine mutant saga that is Buu level somehow being challenged by Pan, who seems weak as heck compared to Goku and completely inexperienced in fighting.

[Hellspawn28]

GT may take place after Super, but they are still set in different continuities. So you can't really power scale them.

[Grimlock]

Those examples just highlight how terribly written Dragon Ball Super is. It was very noble of Toriyama to have Goku lose to Beerus out of respect in Movie 14, but unless they slack off, Goku and Vegeta should surpass Beerus eventually. Because that's what they train and fight for, to get stronger. The problem is that Beerus is a moving goalpost. For out-of--universe reasons, they are adamant in keeping him stronger than Goku and Vegeta, so no matter how strong they get, Beerus will be stronger automatically.

Trunks, Freeza, Android 17, Piccolo and to some extent Gohan getting anywhere near Goku and Vegeta level without a proper training with Whis is beyond reason, but it is what plot demands. Cheap shortcuts so that the characters can perform their roles and to somehow catch up to Goku and Vegeta.

It also doesn't help that the villains will always have their power level adjusted to the time they appear, instead of something more realistic, like Abo and Cado, who were said that because they appeared late in the story, they didn't pose any threat (there should have been more villains that are way too weak and too strong). So it is to be expected any unbelievable leap in power, or a lack thereof.

"Goku getting almost killed by a gun" is okay, though. In the very movie where it happens, Whis says that no matter how powerful one can be, if they aren't aware of their surroundings, if they let their guards down, they can get in serious trouble. So having problems with it is also beyond reason. That thing happened almost ten years ago, time enough for people to accept it already (it's also curious how people ignore certain lines characters say, but not others, more controversial or contradictory ones...).

[Peach]

GT may take place after Super, but they are still set in different continuities. So you can't really power scale them.

Still. Super made Goku weaker in a lot of ways even though it polished up his martial arts skills.

Bullets, laser guns, and stun guns hurting Goku. Vegeta not being able to lift a tin man. Really? Come on now.

This tells me that they move with the elegance, technique, perception, skill, and speed of a god. But their actual raw power leaves a lot to be desired…

[JonSnowFan17]

Yes. It seems like God, Blue, Blue Evolution are just forms slightly stronger than 3. I never got the impression that they were as strong as people hype them up to be.

You mean SS Goku not being able to make Jiren even budge, then SSG Goku just making him use one finger, and SSB requiring Jiren to actually fight back gave you the impression that it’s all pretty much the same?
So, not moving, using one finger and then having to use the entire body, not to mention SSBE is at least a 20x boost on top of SSB, all of this is only a slight increase in power from SS3? ok...

In any case the hyping up comes from Toei not from "people".

No.

It used to be a ritual that caused Goku to absorb the power of a god into his natural form. It was implied that the blue hair was just what super saiyan looked like when after they absorbed the power of a god.

That all changed when they moved over to an ongoing series for TV. Super Saiyan God just became another form after 3 instead of a power that Goku naturally absorbed. Super Saiyan Blue is no longer a saiyan with the power of God using Super Saiyan - It's just the second form after 3. And no matter how strong Goku and Vegeta get now, they're never as strong as Beerus. They're just doomed to be between 3 and Beerus forever.

The lifting strength of Vegeta against Magetta is pathetically low, Goku & Vegeta struggling to lift those vests when Champa came to visit, Goku getting damaged by a bullet, Goku Black nearly dying to a bullet against Mai, Goku nearly dying from a common Frieza Force laser, Goku and Vegeta getting knocked unconscious be Merus' stun gun, Android 17 catching up so easily, and Super Saiyan 2 Trunks not dying instantly to Black Goku. These things and more make me realize that people greatly exaggerate their strength in DBS. These Super forms just seem to enhance their martial arts abilities and fighting skills, but not their actual raw power beyond Z too much.

I'm willing to say GT is stronger because again, it's a more experienced Goku further in the timeline and he had enough power to "light up a galaxy" just by powering up in base. Plus, there's just tons and tons of feats suggested by dialog alone. A random thug in the machine mutant saga that is Buu level somehow being challenged by Pan, who seems weak as heck compared to Goku and completely inexperienced in fighting.

I love how you completely ignore Ultra Instinct Goku existing to make your irrational point of GT characters being stronger just because !

[ankokudaishogun]

No. They are somehow weaker.

Mostly because the only way we have to compare them is through Heroes, which has their Xeno version as roughly equal to the Heroes DBS-equivalent versions.

And the Xeno versions are the "strongest variant" of the GT versions, basically.(with the exception of Pan, most likely)

Still, the difference is not that large: Gogeta:Xeno got a good fight with Gogeta-Absorbed Fin(which was actually controlled by Gogeta the whole time)

We can headcanon the greater experience of the GT\Xeno versions did cover the gap in raw power... but it couldn't be that large in first place.

So, yeah. If Goku:Super is 100, Goku:GT is between 98 and 95 at worst.

[Thani]

GT may take place after Super, but they are still set in different continuities. So you can't really power scale them.

Still. Super made Goku weaker in a lot of ways even though it polished up his martial arts skills.

Bullets, laser guns, and stun guns hurting Goku. Vegeta not being able to lift a tin man. Really? Come on now.

This tells me that they move with the elegance, technique, perception, skill, and speed of a god. But their actual raw power leaves a lot to be desired…

I mean... Super Saiyan 4 Goku being cut with regular glass, struggling to lift a building... It's not like what you said is anything new to Super.

About the question itself? Like everybody said, it's a different continuity. Super works with a greater power scale than GT. In base, GT Goku is stronger than anyone from Super, that's a given. But counting the God forms, Ultra Instinct/Ego and what not, Super is definitely ahead.

[Hellspawn28]

GT Goku also had issues with fighting giant worms. Unless you want to think Giant Worms = SSj3 power.

[super michael]

GT Goku also had issues with fighting giant worms. Unless you want to think Giant Worms = SSj3 power.

Better to struggle against giant space worms, than to struggle against a giant snake on earth. There are many place unexplored in space.

The only thing GT and DBS in common is their statement about Boo and Vegito, other than that it is impossible to compare.
Although here is my guess:

DBS Goku > GT Goku (except in brains)
DBS Vegeta > GT Vegeta
DBS Gohan > GT Gohan
GT Goten > DBS Goten
GT Trunks > DBS Trunks
GT Pan > DBS Pan (no surprise since she is a small kid)
GT Oob > DBS Oob (no surprise since he is a small kid)

[Shintoki]

GT Goku also had issues with fighting giant worms. Unless you want to think Giant Worms = SSj3 power.

Better to struggle against giant space worms, than to struggle against a giant snake on earth. There are many place unexplored in space.

The only thing GT and DBS in common is their statement about Boo and Vegito, other than that it is impossible to compare.
Although here is my guess:

DBS Goku > GT Goku (except in brains)
DBS Vegeta > GT Vegeta
DBS Gohan > GT Gohan
GT Goten > DBS Goten
GT Trunks > DBS Trunks
GT Pan > DBS Pan (no surprise since she is a small kid)
GT Oob > DBS Oob (no surprise since he is a small kid)

is this the SS4 Goku & super vegetto comparison?

[super michael]

GT Goku also had issues with fighting giant worms. Unless you want to think Giant Worms = SSj3 power.

Better to struggle against giant space worms, than to struggle against a giant snake on earth. There are many place unexplored in space.

The only thing GT and DBS in common is their statement about Boo and Vegito, other than that it is impossible to compare.
Although here is my guess:

DBS Goku > GT Goku (except in brains)
DBS Vegeta > GT Vegeta
DBS Gohan > GT Gohan
GT Goten > DBS Goten
GT Trunks > DBS Trunks
GT Pan > DBS Pan (no surprise since she is a small kid)
GT Oob > DBS Oob (no surprise since he is a small kid)

is this the SS4 Goku & super vegetto comparison?

More like how suppressed base form Rildo compares to Boo and Bebi Vegeta 2nd form compares to Vegito.
When Rildo transforms, he gains a lot of power, so I have him beyond Boohan and Kid Boo. When Bebi Vegeta transforms into his 2nd form, I have him beyond Vegito. Then Bebi Vegeta has 2 more transformation.

[JulieYBM]

GT may take place after Super, but they are still set in different continuities. So you can't really power scale them.

Still. Super made Goku weaker in a lot of ways even though it polished up his martial arts skills.

Bullets, laser guns, and stun guns hurting Goku. Vegeta not being able to lift a tin man. Really? Come on now.

This tells me that they move with the elegance, technique, perception, skill, and speed of a god. But their actual raw power leaves a lot to be desired…

I mean... Super Saiyan 4 Goku being cut with regular glass, struggling to lift a building... It's not like what you said is anything new to Super.

About the question itself? Like everybody said, it's a different continuity. Super works with a greater power scale than GT. In base, GT Goku is stronger than anyone from Super, that's a given. But counting the God forms, Ultra Instinct/Ego and what not, Super is definitely ahead.

This is why these discussions are always stupid. The rules will inevitably be two things: too rigid to write a fun story or too inconsistent and be obvious.

[SaulSkin]

goku trained with uub nonstop for striaght 5 years. thats insane amount of training. that was on top all the training he did prior to that after the buu saga. so,even if we assume gt is not the same cannon with super i think goku and vegeta might be way stronger in gt then in super including their god forms. its just that they had way way more time to train. and no i dont really think goku can beat beerus if he take it seriously and fight with full power, even after the TOP and even after the manga events. i think if beerus wanted he would still wipe the floor with goku.

It really depends on if Goku’s base is still SSJG level. Imo, his base hasn’t been SSJG level since Goku Black and debatably U6 Tournament with outliers.

If Super’s base is, then Super stomps, if Super’s isn’t, GT stomps.

baby was only stronger then goku because it was vegeta's body + all the power he absorbed from the others, vegeta probably trained as much as goku. vegeta base and ssj forms probably are way stronger then super's god forms.

While GT Goku and Vegeta’s bases are absurdly strong, I’m pretty sure SSJG has Base GT beat on feats and scaling, unless the Buuhan low multiversal feat isn’t solely hax.

now, if we drop fusion into the mix, i think there is no doubt that ssj4 gogeta is FAR FAR stronger then either gogeta blue OR vegito blue. with all the god ki praise and everything. i still think long training is more effective then just having different kind of ki and a fusion between such strong ssj4's will wipe the floor with any super character, minus maybe the gods of destruction or angels

Didn’t GT Perfect Files say SSJ4 Gogeta was only like tens of times stronger than SSJ4FP Goku or something? If that’s the case the Fusion Dance is pretty weak in GT. Although I could be misremembering.