Do you think GT Goku and Vegeta are stronger than their Super counterparts?

[Shintoki]

Better to struggle against giant space worms, than to struggle against a giant snake on earth. There are many place unexplored in space.

The only thing GT and DBS in common is their statement about Boo and Vegito, other than that it is impossible to compare.
Although here is my guess:

DBS Goku > GT Goku (except in brains)
DBS Vegeta > GT Vegeta
DBS Gohan > GT Gohan
GT Goten > DBS Goten
GT Trunks > DBS Trunks
GT Pan > DBS Pan (no surprise since she is a small kid)
GT Oob > DBS Oob (no surprise since he is a small kid)

is this the SS4 Goku & super vegetto comparison?

More like how suppressed base form Rildo compares to Boo and Bebi Vegeta 2nd form compares to Vegito.
When Rildo transforms, he gains a lot of power, so I have him beyond Boohan and Kid Boo. When Bebi Vegeta transforms into his 2nd form, I have him beyond Vegito. Then Bebi Vegeta has 2 more transformation.

They're not compared to these characters in any specific way tho, these are but interpretations of these general statements

for example, I take the Buu Goku was referring to as Mr. Buu since that makes the most sense, he’s the one others would most likely understand and be familiar with in that comparison. Unless Goku was somehow talking to himself, which doesn’t really click for me.

As for Goku’s line about Baby Vegeta, Goku never includes himself in such comparisons. another example would be with janemba cuz even tho goku was stronger, he said he never felt a ki like his, excluding himself, let alone including far stronger extensions of himself like the fusions in there

e.g

tho that's ur personal take and you're entitled to it

[super michael]

is this the SS4 Goku & super vegetto comparison?

More like how suppressed base form Rildo compares to Boo and Bebi Vegeta 2nd form compares to Vegito.
When Rildo transforms, he gains a lot of power, so I have him beyond Boohan and Kid Boo. When Bebi Vegeta transforms into his 2nd form, I have him beyond Vegito. Then Bebi Vegeta has 2 more transformation.

They're not compared to these characters in any specific way tho, these are but interpretations of these general statements

for example, I take the Buu Goku was referring to as Mr. Buu since that makes the most sense, he’s the one others would most likely understand and be familiar with in that comparison. Unless Goku was somehow talking to himself, which doesn’t really click for me.

As for Goku’s line about Baby Vegeta, Goku never includes himself in such comparisons. another example would be with janemba cuz even tho goku was stronger, he said he never felt a ki like his, excluding himself, let alone including far stronger extensions of himself like the fusions in there

e.g

tho that's ur personal take and you're entitled to it

Even if Rildo is being compared to Mr Boo, that is still base suppressed Rildo. Rildo has 2 transformation after that.
Goku needed his Super Saiyan powers against him when Rildo transformed.

Bebi Vegeta in his first form is stronger than everyone such as Goku, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, etc. Then later Bebi Vegeta says he obtained the greatest Saiyan power. The only Saiyan to have greater power is Vegito.

Goten and Trunks was able to compare SSJ3 Gotenks powers to Ultimate Gohan in the Boo Saga. I don't see why Bebi Vegeta and Goku wouldn't compare Vegito to Bebi Vegeta.

[ankokudaishogun]

Also: even if Mr. Buu would be somehow the weakest Buu, he'd still need a Buu-Saga Super Saiyan 3 to be defeated at the very least.

...which would fit GT Goku, which was supposed to be Buu-saga SS3 in base, needing to transform to fight Rildo's powered up forms.

[Shintoki]

More like how suppressed base form Rildo compares to Boo and Bebi Vegeta 2nd form compares to Vegito.
When Rildo transforms, he gains a lot of power, so I have him beyond Boohan and Kid Boo. When Bebi Vegeta transforms into his 2nd form, I have him beyond Vegito. Then Bebi Vegeta has 2 more transformation.

They're not compared to these characters in any specific way tho, these are but interpretations of these general statements

for example, I take the Buu Goku was referring to as Mr. Buu since that makes the most sense, he’s the one others would most likely understand and be familiar with in that comparison. Unless Goku was somehow talking to himself, which doesn’t really click for me.

As for Goku’s line about Baby Vegeta, Goku never includes himself in such comparisons. another example would be with janemba cuz even tho goku was stronger, he said he never felt a ki like his, excluding himself, let alone including far stronger extensions of himself like the fusions in there

e.g

tho that's ur personal take and you're entitled to it

Even if Rildo is being compared to Mr Boo, that is still base suppressed Rildo. Rildo has 2 transformation after that.
Goku needed his Super Saiyan powers against him when Rildo transformed.

Bebi Vegeta in his first form is stronger than everyone such as Goku, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, etc. Then later Bebi Vegeta says he obtained the greatest Saiyan power. The only Saiyan to have greater power is Vegito.

Goten and Trunks was able to compare SSJ3 Gotenks powers to Ultimate Gohan in the Boo Saga. I don't see why Bebi Vegeta and Goku wouldn't compare Vegito to Bebi Vegeta.

Trunks and Goten specifically made that comparison between Gotenks vs. Ultimate Gohan to let us know how they compare to each other, whereas when Goku states that someone's ki is stronger than anything he has felt, he doesn't include himself in that equation, as demonstrated earlier—such as how he was stronger than Janemba, for example.

So, that comparison would include anything Goku felt up to that moment. Baby Vegeta and his combined energy would be more than Buuhan, which makes sense since Goku, even at SS3, could not defeat Baby, albeit he was handicapped due to his child body, so take that as you will. This puts Baby Vegeta as above Buuhan, which I agree with, as it took SS4 Goku to defeat him.

that's how i view it for GT.

[Hugo Boss]

GT and Super operate on different storytelling philosophies. GT emphasizes a return to the adventurous roots of Dragon Ball while exploring Saiyan history. Super focuses on divine hierarchies and breaking mortal limits. These thematic differences make direct comparisons tricky, since each series prioritizes different aspects of power progression.

GT portrays Goku and Vegeta focusing on prolonged physical training, while Super emphasizes unconventional methods, such as Whis’ guidance in god ki mastery and Ultra Instinct.

GT Goku and Vegeta potentially surpass their Super counterparts in raw physical strength due to the significant training time between Dragon Ball Z and GT. In another hand, Super introduces a broader range of transformations which rely heavily on godly ki and divine techniques rather than raw training alone. The power scaling in Super makes these transformations far more efficient for significant power boosts in shorter periods.

SS4 combines Super Saiyan and Oozaru. It's a natural evolution of the Saiyan transformation tree, but Super Saiyan Blue represents mastery over god ki, which operates on an entirely different level of energy manipulation. So, while SS4 has impressive physical strength and endurance, Super’s forms grant immense energy control and destructive capabilities that go beyond brute force.

SS4 Gogeta is undoubtedly one of the strongest entities in GT. However, Gogeta Blue has demonstrated power capable of shaking dimensions. It’s subjective to determine which fusion is stronger, but Super’s depiction of power scaling leans heavily on qualitative increases from god ki.

So, while GT Goku and Vegeta may indeed display incredible power due to their long-term training, Super’s god ki and transformations fundamentally alter the power hierarchy. Hence, GT has an edge in showcasing raw strength, but Super’s characters likely outpace GT’s in terms of overall destructive capability and energy control.

Perhaps the answer may be found in how they will evolve further in the Super storyline, since Vegeta suggests focusing solely on the body won't make them formidable fighters if they don't manage energy correctly. We will see how that will impact in their future matches.

[The Monkey King]

Super and GT are in different timelines/continuities

GT has no feats, characters still boast about being planet level

Meanwhile Super got Universe level feats in the first arc

SSJG Goku solos GT with ease.

[Thani]

Still. Super made Goku weaker in a lot of ways even though it polished up his martial arts skills.

Bullets, laser guns, and stun guns hurting Goku. Vegeta not being able to lift a tin man. Really? Come on now.

This tells me that they move with the elegance, technique, perception, skill, and speed of a god. But their actual raw power leaves a lot to be desired…

I mean... Super Saiyan 4 Goku being cut with regular glass, struggling to lift a building... It's not like what you said is anything new to Super.

About the question itself? Like everybody said, it's a different continuity. Super works with a greater power scale than GT. In base, GT Goku is stronger than anyone from Super, that's a given. But counting the God forms, Ultra Instinct/Ego and what not, Super is definitely ahead.

This is why these discussions are always stupid. The rules will inevitably be two things: too rigid to write a fun story or too inconsistent and be obvious.

Well... yeah. Can't argue against that.

[JonSnowFan17]

The reason the whole “debate” is pointless is because certain people like to ignore certain transformations(hello Ultra Instinct and even Ultra Ego if you include the manga) to make their baseless points of SSG/B being equal or weaker than SSJ4 with no absloutely no evidence backing any of it except power disperancy in Super when people already mentioned power disperancies being present in all DB series, Raditz stopping a bullet with his bare hands at the beginning of Z was supposed to be so impressive when we already saw Tao Pai Pai stopping a bullet with his shoe back in the original DB and the series is full with stuff like this, it seems like OP has a certain vendetta against Super for some reason so they need to make up things or omit certain details to fit their narrative, it’s disingenous !

[ZombieVito]

No.

Base DBGT Goku was around Kid Boo's power while base DBS Goku demolishes SS3 Gotenks after the first arc.

[Saiyan007]

No they aren't the first arc of super has feats that outscale the entirety of GT and even if you somehow come to the conclusion Omega Shenron has a feat just like that(he doesn't) DBS Goku has multiple other forms he can call on

There's just no way one could say GT characters are stronger

[SupremeKai25]

The only way someone can argue that SSB Goku and SS4 Goku are equal is by bringing up the videogames/Heroes, where they're usually established as rivals. Because in terms of feats, SSB Goku clearly leaves GT Goku in the dust.

But what about UI Goku? What about Ultra Ego Vegeta? Or what about the SSB Evolution form that Vegeta got in the ToP?

While SS4 is GT Goku's ultimate form, SSB isn't Super Goku's ultimate form, you know...

[ankokudaishogun]

DBHeroes has the Xeno characters a power-up form with Super Full Power Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker, which is portrayed on the same level as Ultra Instinct-Sign while specifically having a different balance: sturdy enough to tank UI-Sign blows and mighty enough to be a serious threat if he manages to land one blow.
I suppose we could compare it to Anime Jiren.

Goku:Super did manage to defeat Xeno at the last second by going full UI.

[SupremeKai25]

DBHeroes has the Xeno characters a power-up form with Super Full Power Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker, which is portrayed on the same level as Ultra Instinct-Sign while specifically having a different balance: sturdy enough to tank UI-Sign blows and mighty enough to be a serious threat if he manages to land one blow.
I suppose we could compare it to Anime Jiren.

Goku:Super did manage to defeat Xeno at the last second by going full UI.

SSJ2 Kefla literally did all of that lol.

If those are the only feats of that form, then it's fodder to Moro arc Goku.

[ankokudaishogun]

SSJ2 Kefla literally did all of that lol.

Not really.
She went against a weaker version(Goku's UI-Sign getting stronger each use was pointed out) which was also running on fumes.
That was called out explicitly.

Goku:Xeno went against a much improved version that was fully healthy and fully powered.

And we are talking about Anime Jiren-level here: he's on a completely different level than Manga Jiren.

If those are the only feats of that form, then it's fodder to Moro arc Goku.

Only if he goes full Ultra Instinct, but there is very little that doesn't get fodderized by that.

[JulieYBM]

If the animated series' staff wanted us to think that Kefla was only doing that well against Gokuu because he wasn't at full stamina they would have outlined it more strenuously. The Tournament of Power arc made it pretty clear that Gokuu was 'recovering his stamina' and then finally did when using Ultra Instinct against her.

Is it inconsistent with previous arcs' depictions of how one restores their stamina? Sure. Did the staff give a shit? No, they had a cartoon to make under certain circumstances and did their best and frankly, who gives a shit?

[SupremeKai25]

SSJ2 Kefla literally did all of that lol.

Not really.
She went against a weaker version(Goku's UI-Sign getting stronger each use was pointed out) which was also running on fumes.
That was called out explicitly.

Goku:Xeno went against a much improved version that was fully healthy and fully powered.

And we are talking about Anime Jiren-level here: he's on a completely different level than Manga Jiren.

If those are the only feats of that form, then it's fodder to Moro arc Goku.

Only if he goes full Ultra Instinct, but there is very little that doesn't get fodderized by that.

Again, Anime Jiren is outclassed come the Broly movie.

Even if you wanted to argue Anime Jiren = SSJ4 Goku, GT is still left in the dust by the heavy hitters of the Broly movie.

And decisively fodderized by Moro, lol!

[Shintoki]

DBHeroes has the Xeno characters a power-up form with Super Full Power Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker, which is portrayed on the same level as Ultra Instinct-Sign while specifically having a different balance: sturdy enough to tank UI-Sign blows and mighty enough to be a serious threat if he manages to land one blow.
I suppose we could compare it to Anime Jiren.

Goku:Super did manage to defeat Xeno at the last second by going full UI.

xeno goku is also not the same as Goku as he's a different incarnation of goku that's somewhat a composite version and have different lore and power levels to him.
SS4LB is also not compared to UI, CC goku had the upperhand in that fight against SS4LB and one shot xeno goku once he went MUI mode

[ankokudaishogun]

Again, Anime Jiren is outclassed come the Broly movie.

"Base" Jiren? Sure. But not Super Full power Jiren.
Extended media lore has (anime)Complete Ultra Instinct, Beast, Blue Fusions, Full Power Broly and Super Full Power (anime)Jiren on roughly the same level.

Not to say successive enemies might have not been stronger(Heroes has a few people stronger than Blue Fusion), but the lack of anime for them makes comparison quite difficult.

Even if you wanted to argue Anime Jiren = SSJ4 Goku, GT is still left in the dust by the heavy hitters of the Broly movie.

Anime Jiren circa UI-Sign circa Limit Breaker Saiyan 4.
Quite stronger than regular SS4, which is about as strong as Anime Blue.

[SupremeKai25]

Again, Anime Jiren is outclassed come the Broly movie.

"Base" Jiren? Sure. But not Super Full power Jiren.
Extended media lore has (anime)Complete Ultra Instinct, Beast, Blue Fusions, Full Power Broly and Super Full Power (anime)Jiren on roughly the same level.

When scaling Super, we need to talk about Super. In Super, the new antagonist is always stronger than the old antagonist.

Moro > Main fighters of the Broly arc > Main fighters of the ToP arc

That's how it goes in Toriyama's Dragon Ball.

Factually-speaking, Jiren is no longer a top-tier fighter. Hasn't been for half a decade.

Anime Jiren circa UI-Sign circa Limit Breaker Saiyan 4.
Quite stronger than regular SS4, which is about as strong as Anime Blue.

And what about Mastered UI and Ultra Ego?

[ankokudaishogun]

Anime Jiren circa UI-Sign circa Limit Breaker Saiyan 4.
Quite stronger than regular SS4, which is about as strong as Anime Blue.

And what about Mastered UI and Ultra Ego?

anime Complete UI is MUCH stronger.

Manga ToP UI is also stronger, though it's hard to say how much.
Giant Avatar UI is no doubt much stronger: still hard to tell how it scales to anime Complete UI because it was not used much.

Ultra Ego had too little showcasing to compare it as well: the Granolah Arc version I'd scale about higher than ToP UI but not yet at complete UI. It was a plot point it would get stronger over time and use though