Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 9 - Official Discussion Thread

[Extreme_kai]

I'm just going to straight up say that this episode sucks and displays every issue I have with Daima. All this pointless conflict with fodder goons, another stolen plane. What is it with Daima and stolen planes? Why even have them lose the plane only for them to get it back minutes later? What was the pointless reunion about if Goku and the others didn't have room on their plane? Not to mention they got their plane back 2 seconds later. The best word I can use to describe this episode is pointless. Let's not even get started with the letdown of a Majin reveal. I wasn't expecting Android 21 like some people were thinking, I even heard Jenemba being thrown around. I thought this new Majin would have been a female-like Majin Buu or something cooler than what we got. The design isn't anywhere near as interesting as the original Buu, he just looks like a less cool Nuova shenron. The only good part about this episode is that it revealed that Saibamen are from the demon realm. 2/10

[Extreme_kai]

That's not the main villain, is it? That would be one more thing GT and Daima have in common: ugly and forgettable main villains, lol!

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Baby Vegeta and Omega Shenron are some of my favorite Dragonball designs. Majin Kuu looks like a basic grunt. Even regular Saibamen are better designed than he is.

[The Monkey King]

Right, he's ugly. Y'know, if I didn't know any better, I'd say he almost looks like he was meant to be some unholy magical scientific abomination created from Buu's and Saibaman's DNA, or something!

An "ugly" design doesn't have to be boring, uninspired and generic. Kuu manages to be all three.

An "unholy magical scientific abomination" should be interesting to look at at the very least.

[VegettoEX]

There are a whole lot of weird assumptions going around. Who says this is what Koo will look like for the rest of the series? Who says he's the final big bad? He was on screen for, like, 20 seconds so far.

I legitimately have no insight whatsoever into what's to come (or not?) for him, but holy cow y'all. Let's let him do something and say more than two words.

I also see more commentary about "bad pacing"... but we literally had productive moves from four distinct different groups of characters this episode. None of it lingered too long, and none of it sped by. I don't know what else you could ask for. You not liking the individual events that comprise those scenes doesn't mean it's "bad pacing"; it means you didn't like the content.

That said... there continues to be absolutely bizarre direction going on here. The literal fade to black and back for Vegeta's bar scene fight was... cheap? Amateur? Hilariously terrible? I don't even have a reaction. I'm kinda speechless about it. This isn't an original thought, but the "let's meet up only for literally nothing to happen" scene between the two Earthling groups was also mind-bogglingly terrible. I've been saying* that they have no idea how to end episodes (or... like... even individual scenes), and this episode was just another showcase for that.

(*mostly on our Saturday night streams, so if you want commentary pre-podcast, that's the place to go! )

And yet I still come away with a smile on my face each episode, enjoying the journey each step along the way.

[nato25]

There are a whole lot of weird assumptions going around. Who says this is what Koo will look like for the rest of the series? Who says he's the final big bad? He was on screen for, like, 20 seconds so far.

I legitimately have no insight whatsoever into what's to come (or not?) for him, but holy cow y'all. Let's let him do something and say more than two words.

I also see more commentary about "bad pacing"... but we literally had productive moves from four distinct different groups of characters this episode. None of it lingered too long, and none of it sped by. I don't know what else you could ask for. You not liking the individual events that comprise those scenes doesn't mean it's "bad pacing"; it means you didn't like the content.

That said... there continues to be absolutely bizarre direction going on here. The literal fade to black and back for Vegeta's bar scene fight was... cheap? Amateur? Hilariously terrible? I don't even have a reaction. I'm kinda speechless about it. This isn't an original thought, but the "let's meet up only for literally nothing to happen" scene between the two Earthling groups was also mind-bogglingly terrible. I've been saying* that they have no idea how to end episodes (or... like... even individual scenes), and this episode was just another showcase for that.

(*mostly on our Saturday night streams, so if you want commentary pre-podcast, that's the place to go! )

And yet I still come away with a smile on my face each episode, enjoying the journey each step along the way.

Glad you enjoyed it Mike but can't say I agree with all your takes however we clearly focus on different things. The fade for Vegeta's scene didn't even register as an issue for me lol.

I've fully avoided leaks thus far like yourself, however the design of Majin Koo, final form or not, is just bad. Worse than bad, it's boring. That common 'good design trope' where a silhouette of a character should be recognisable, I don't think this is going to pass the test. And mentioning it's only been 20 seconds, first impressions are important. So many villains have had impressive intros, as far back as King Piccolo to Goku Black, that let you get a bit of character personality as well. All I will think of my first impression of Koo is... yuck (and why did Saibaimen need to be involved). Plus I think commentary on a characters intro is more than valid, I definitely haven't condemned this character in my mind to horrible yet, I'm still keen to see what he does I guess I just won't enjoy the design of the character doing those things.

The groups meeting up was definitely terrible. This should have been an epic "our split cast is all back together wooo" moment, and it just fell so flat.

Not only did the meeting not make any sense (Vegeta's group was going there to get picked up by the Princess, in a ship they couldn't fit in... so they just left them there...) but did Goku or Supreme Kai even interact with anyone really? Did Goku even acknowledge Piccolo? And now the joke about Pansy's junk filling up the ship is causing legit story issues and overstaying it's welcome. Why is Glorio covering for her in this case. It was actually just awful in hindsight.

[FortuneSSJ]

The disco visuals stood out.
Arinsu deciding to test Kyu against Temagami 1 was surprising

The fact that we are still getting scenes from the trailers in episodes 9 tells you how good the production was. DBS trailers only had footage from the first 2 episodes.

However, Daima just like a videogame proves that no how matter how good the visuals are, there's still more things needed that make a good product. The pacing is trash, the story not that interesting and to be honest, so far I don't think it has much rewatch value.

Episode 8 was the only one that was solid form the beginning to end, and looking to NEP, the next one doesn't give me hope either.

And of course Toriyama kept recycling villains until the very end. Now we have a hybrid Kid Buu Saibaman. Toyotaro was a madman to come up with a design as original as Moro.

[Mr Baggins]

An "ugly" design doesn't have to be boring, uninspired and generic. Kuu manages to be all three.

I dunno, man. He's just a mix of Boo and Saibaman.

Is that the most inspired Dragon Ball design? Obviously not by a long shot, but I'm not getting the impression he's supposed to be. I just find it odd that people are losing their minds over this guy when we have no idea what kind of role he's going to play, or if Arinsu's plan is even gonna go off without a hitch. He was basically not much more than a footnote this episode.

Let's let the story play out first.

[JulieYBM]

This episode would have worked a lot better if Team Gokuu wasn't in it at all and the entire runtime was devoted to Team Vegeta and their antagonists to better set up and pay off a battle between those thieves at the end. Like, I'm just not sure what it is I'm supposed to care about in this episode? Where are the characters at right now in their personal arcs, where are they going? How are their external obstacles relating to their internal arcs?

It just feels like stuff is happening, without really being exciting or building up to anything. That's why the series just feels like its moving along very slowly, even though 'things' are technically happening.

Like, you can write a timeline of events that happen in a story's inner world, but that doesn't mean that you're writing a television episode or a series. Those things have structure and specific framing, not just showing a step-by-step list of things happening.

[LightBing]

What sour to me was how Bulma's group shenanigans were exactly the same as Goku's in previous episode. Bar fight, stolen ship and another bout. I like these adventures but they just copied previous writing.
The stolen ship gag however was on purpose for sure, the writers are very aware and just messing with us.

Majin Koo design isn't flattering at first glance, hope it has Saibaiman like abilities to differentiate.

I think the biggest elephant in the room for me so far is the necessity for all these covert operations. There has been no reason why they have to hide and travel in secrecy at all. Why can't Goku just blow shit up and solve the problem by punching people? That's what he's already doing with extra steps.

And decisively count me out on this interpretation of Goku. This is chapter 1 Goku, not chapter 519 turned into a child.

Ignoring that it wouldn't make for a very interesting story.

This is a new World with magic. Just in this episode Majin were able to steal the Dragon Ball using trickery.
A random guy can show up use the taiyoken, steal their Dragon Ball and disappear into the wasteland.
There's a bunch of things that can happen.

Dragon Ball writes itself into a corner a lot. I'm glad they're trying to counter that to make things interesting, even if is with reasons like heavy atmosphere.

There are a whole lot of weird assumptions going around. Who says this is what Koo will look like for the rest of the series? Who says he's the final big bad? He was on screen for, like, 20 seconds so far.

Even if Koo changes, it's design can still looked at in isolation. Everyone has their preferred Freeza and Cell forms for example.

If Koo is the final villain, it's design is what matters the less. Personality and actions matters most, I agree that being disappointed based on design only isn't reasonable.
With only 20 seconds, this Majin already shows more potential than Pure Boo since it doesn't speak only in onomatopoeia.

[D.R.]

And Majin Kuu is going straight after Tamagami #1. And Hybis apparently has the third demon eye. And hopefully nobody stole the Dragon Ball again while Goku fell asleep. This is anything but "telegraphed"; we generally have no idea where things are going.

Well, yeah, but that's expected in such an easygoing series, not impressive. Majin Kuu's involvement is the only thing with a set goal being foreshadowed that you listed. The third demon eye is just one of the other dozen worldbuilding clues to sit on the backburner until further notice, and Goku giving the game away again is just completely predictable. This doesn't convince me anymore than the previous episodes that anything interesting will happen.

Not only that, but some of the praise you list is just weird. Glorio giving Panzy some forgettable little fist bump is "meticulous character growth"? Huh...? That's like the most bare minimum show of respect. What is cunning about Arinsu's plan? That's the only chance she gets to try and catch up, and that's not even the point of the scene she declares it. Neither is Vegeta's parallels with Goku the point of his scene with the thieves. That's entirely your inference. Whatever difference they show at the beginning of the fights doesn't matter because they each have different circumstances. I'm sure if the thieves just ready'd up for a brawl after stealing Goku's ship he'd bedown at that very moment too.

That is to say, are you just making these points of praise up as you go?

[StaticMania]

Their fist bump did seem weirdly out of place...

Would've been more apropro if the "protect/retrieve Dragon Balls from thieves" thing was a bigger focus like the preview suggested...

If that moment was supposed to suggest that she was proving her worth anyway.

[Gogetason]

I think the biggest elephant in the room for me so far is the necessity for all these covert operations. There has been no reason why they have to hide and travel in secrecy at all. Why can't Goku just blow shit up and solve the problem by punching people? That's what he's already doing with extra steps.

And decisively count me out on this interpretation of Goku. This is chapter 1 Goku, not chapter 519 turned into a child.

Agreed. Its like they dont know how to make goku entertaining outside of fighting, so they just keep trying to replicate (and even failing this)scenes from early dragon ball (or luffy from one piece) but the obvious problem here is Goku, mentally, is not an inexperienced, ignorant little boy anymore. Some might find it funny because hes in his kid body but just imagine he had his adult body how would that scene look?

[Mr Baggins]

Well, yeah, but that's expected in such an easygoing series, not impressive.

I'm not sure you really understood the context behind that paragraph. A few people have been almost routinely claiming that it's telegraphed, or worse, that it's somehow bad "pacing". I'm saying that's clearly not the case. I think I made that pretty clear in the statement you quoted.

It wasn't an attempt to impress you. You are under no obligation to be persuaded by anyone's posts.

Glorio giving Panzy some forgettable little fist bump is "meticulous character growth"? Huh...?

Uh, yeah. Did I stutter?

Glorio has been completely detached from the group for 8 whole episodes and hasn't so much as bothered to give them a second glance, nevermind any direct acknowledgement, outside of the brief smile he gave Goku after beating the Tamagami. This is easily far and away the most progression we've seen him display in the entire series so far; now we're seeing him gradually warm up to the group, and we can get the sense that this will inevitably cause repercussions later.

You calling it "forgettable" doesn't make it so. I didn't think it was forgettable at all, and what happened this week served to show more of Panzy's utility as well. It's a sign of our protagonists getting closer. The fist bump wouldn't have happened without this dilemma.

Neither is Vegeta's parallels with Goku the point of his scene with the thieves. That's entirely your inference.

Bro, the name of the episode is 'Thieves'. What, do you think it's just purely an extradiegetic coincidence that Vegeta so happened to encounter more of the same demon thugs Goku's group encountered earlier in the same episode? That's not an "inference", it's the sole narrative focus and thesis of the episode.

That is to say, are you just making these points of praise up as you go?

What does that even mean?

I post my impressions of my experience. I watch/read an episode or chapter of a series, see whether I enjoyed it, then attempt to articulate why I did or did not enjoy it.

It's not rocket science. I'm enjoying what I'm seeing immensely and that's all there is to it. If other people aren't, that's their loss.

Would've been more apropro if the "protect/retrieve Dragon Balls from thieves" thing was a bigger focus like the preview suggested...

I thoroughly disagree.

Half an episode is more than enough runtime to justify the interaction between these characters and properly convey what happened at the hotel. Every Daima episode thus far has generally been divided into two parts, and I think that has served its story structure very well. Nothing has overstayed its welcome.

[StaticMania]

I agree that nothing has overstayed its welcome...

But that also leads to certain things..."conflicts" becoming non-issues the moment they're introduced, which did kind of happen in the original as well, not to this extent though.

[D.R.]

It wasn't an attempt to impress you. You are under no obligation to be persuaded by anyone's posts.

Of course I'm not. Instead, I'm going out of my way to tell you that it isn't what you think it is. Again, not impressive considering your list only conveys one potentially unpredictable element.

You calling it "forgettable" doesn't make it so. I didn't think it was forgettable at all, and what happened this week served to show more of Panzy's utility as well. It's a sign of our protagonists getting closer. The fist bump wouldn't have happened without this dilemma.

If I call it forgettable, then it's forgettable. That's what an assertion is. You're just stating the obvious.

And none of this points to Glorio's growth being "meticulous", just rare. It doesn't register because it's the most generic form of showing respect. Maybe if more unique gestures were spread out during those eight episodes you'd be on to something, but there aren't.

Bro, the name of the episode is 'Thieves'. What, do you think it's just purely an extradiegetic coincidence that Vegeta so happened to encounter more of the same demon thugs Goku's group encountered earlier in the same episode? That's not an "inference", it's the sole narrative focus and thesis of the episode.

What...? It's called "thieves" because it involves two separate thief encounters, not that it suggest anything about Goku and Vegeta's dynamic. Again, this isn't the point of those scenes. If they handle them differently, chock it up more to the different circumstances leading up rather than some parallel that's never hinted at.

What does that even mean?

I post my impressions of my experience. I watch/read an episode or chapter of a series, see whether I enjoyed it, then attempt to articulate why I did or did not enjoy it.

It's not rocket science. I'm enjoying what I'm seeing immensely and that's all there is to it. If other people aren't, that's their loss.

It means you're reaching to make it seem better than it is. What else?

If it comes natural to you, then congrats: you have an eye for things that don't actually exist in the show. Review your thoughts before asserting such odd claims about the series.

[sangofe]

I really liked Goku's hat. Loved that Goku and his crew didn't have space for Vegeta & co. Vegeta in the bar was really funny. Cool angles during Vegeta's fight. Hibis is still as fun. Very intrigued by Majin Kuu and that the base as Saibaman. And even more surprised that he's after the tamagami. Also really funny scene with Gowasu and Goma. A great episode in its on sense. Why can't people just sit down and enjoy? Stop being critical and just enjoy and you'll feel better.

Lol because the episode wasn't enjoyable. That's not Gowasu by the way that is the universe 11 old supreme kai, this is Degesu.

Even Hybis humour felt a bit flat for me, least funny he's been for me.

At least I made you laugh hahaha. Seriously, I think you got my point. I was commenting widely. And I'm bad remembering names lol

Daima don't miss, baby!

Loved the first half of this episode because the conflict with the thieves and how they resolved it adds an evolving pathos to our main group. All the hotel scenes were great. Not only is Panzy now showing that she's a useful asset, Glorio is slowly growing a bond with everyone and doesn't even seem to realize it yet. This all definitely looks to be setting up some internal conflict later, which wouldn't be remotely as impactful without episodes like this one. Very meticulous character growth and buildup throughout the whole show, despite the episodic format or how quickly the group moves from one area to the next.

Also got a real kick out of Goku reuniting with Vegeta only to leave Vegeta's group behind again anyway. And Majin Kuu is going straight after Tamagami #1, further displaying Arinsu's cunning while deviating from wherever we expect the protagonists to end up next. And Hybis apparently has the third demon eye. And hopefully nobody stole the Dragon Ball again while Goku fell asleep. This is anything but "telegraphed"; we generally have no idea where things are going. The next episode's preview literally showed us nothing, and as much as I like longer previews, I lowkey love that shit.

Vegeta making quick work of the thieves nicely contrasts with Goku's handling of the thieves in the first half. The latter's first resort isn't violence, while the former doesn't think twice. Longtime fans might already be familiar with their dynamic, but the intended demographic and first-time DB viewers are not, which works for me.

Lastly, I just want to reiterate once again that animated serialized Dragon Ball hasn't been this consistently funny since... um, ever, actually. The constant intermingling of gags and character flaws every week is top notch. So glad that Goku is just Goku and nothing like his GT counterpart. Probably the only running gag that isn't landing perfectly with me are the ship problems, but all things considered, that's fine.

P.S. Who the fuck invited Bojack Horseman???

Very fun stuff.

Couldn't agree more, man.

[supershonen]

I didn't get bore nor did i ever check how many more minutes are left for the episode to end. This is how i judge any episode and none of this happened when i was watching this episode or any other episode. All daima episodes have been interesting for me.

The biggest gripe? Goku struggling against 2 furries. Till now daima has done a good job in showcasing how stronger goku is against thugs and even against tamagami 3. It was embarrassing to see goku getting dunked on.

Majin kuu seems interesting, could the design have been better? Yes, but this could not be the final design, heck, kuu might be a fodder, build up for a better buu so i can understand his design being lackluster. But to be fair it still is faithful to the majin buu thematically.

[Mr Baggins]

But that also leads to certain things..."conflicts" becoming non-issues the moment they're introduced, which did kind of happen in the original as well, not to this extent though.

It couldn't feasibly have led to that in any circumstance.

The theft of their Dragon Ball didn't become a non-issue the moment it happened and actually required cooperation between the group before they could retrieve it. I genuinely can't think of anything more to add to that half of the episode that wouldn't just be padding after a certain point.

Pretty much every locale or situation the protags have run into has been of sufficient, appropriate length.

If it comes natural to you, then congrats: you have an eye for things that don't actually exist in the show. Review your thoughts before asserting such odd claims about the series.

"Congrats: you are incapable of engaging critically with the show at worst and being intentionally obtuse at best. Review your thoughts before asserting such odd claims about my posts."

...is what I could say, if I was engaging in the same accusatory rhetoric you're using in basically every quote reply you've thrown at me. But that's boring, overly hostile, and needlessly dismissive. There's nothing either of us could add to the conversation at this point.

Again, you are under no obligation to find what's being said persuasive or agreeable. I'd say there's been a number of indications in the past few episodes that Glorio is increasingly letting his guard down, but I can't say I'm interested in discussing it with someone I don't believe is approaching this exchange in good faith.

You're more than welcome to post your own analysis of the episode rather than nitpicking someone else's, my man.

[SupremeKai25]

Toyotaro was a madman to come up with a design as original as Moro.

Speaking of which, I'm still waiting to get some crumb of lore about this guy.

This show is all about Demons and Magic and the Demonic Goat-man Warlock is not going to get even a mention? Meh!

Feels like you could easily connect this show to Super if you wanted to. Even the Heeters look kind of Demonic and have POINTY EARS.

[omegalucas]

• "Majin Kuu" is a name that’s gonna be awkward for us Brazilian DB fans lol

Majin (Doo)Kaan incoming