Majin Boo's (lack of) presence in Daima

[Yuji]

I find it odd how a story following the Boo arc, using the events of the Boo arc as its catalyst, with an antagonist that shares Boo's DNA, set in a world that seemingly admires and fears Majin Boo, has somehow just... omitted the character entirely, as if he were not part of the cast.

We saw Boo for one second, after he was turned Mini. Ignoring how that is in itself odd (and how they didn’t take the opportunity to bring back Pure Boo's design in a remix perhaps), the character's reputation is being appropriated for the plot whereas the character himself is being sidelined.

Unless the plot takes to Earth again, I don't see how they can reintroduce Boo now, which just comes across to me as a bizarre decision.

[AliTheZombie13]

Now that you mention it, yeah.
Majin Boo SHOULD have been prominently featured in Daima, as much as Shin is.
This is about their origins, so why the hell is he not there?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Because he's not a very interesting character - too overpowered and his personality consists of being a giant baby. Sometimes I think Toriyama regrets keeping the Fat Boo alive.

[JulieYBM]

Majin Buu on the trip and Shin giving him the side-eye the entire trip would have been hilarious lol

[Koitsukai]

Because he is not the main focus of the story, Buu already got an arc of his own. Clearly, the writers, all of them, never found anything meaningful to do with him, not even in GT... except for Toyo, I guess.
Not to mention Buu, just by being there, would instill terror on a realm they are trying to approach in a stealthy way.

While it's odd to sideline him in every arc and movie, I don't see why he needs to be in this one, the arc came up with its own Buu anyway.

I agree with GS123, Buu being kept alive looks like a problem Toriyama was not expecting. Daima works best with Buu being dead.

[Majin Buu]

I agree with GS123, Buu being kept alive looks like a problem Toriyama was not expecting.

I personally think he kept Buu alive simply because he enjoyed the character too much to kill him off, and because the Buu arc was meant to be Dragon Ball's final arc, there wouldn't be any future stories he would need to be thinking ahead to at that time.

Keeping Buu alive is being framed as a mistake on Toriyama's part, but people seem to be forgetting the context here: As far as Toriyama was concerned, there wasn't going to be anything after the Buu arc, at least not from him; so this criticism reads as people faulting Toriyama (a very burnt-out Toriyama at that) for not being clairvoyant.

That being said: As much as I love Buu, I'd rather him not be here if they don't have anything for him to do. I'd rather not have another Future Arc Vegetto situation where it feels like the character is only here for fanservice and is otherwise superfluous to the story.

Lastly, I'd argue he has enough presence through his reputation and legacy alone. And frankly, Buu himself is so simple-minded and carefree that I don't get the sense that he even knows or cares about how infamous he is.

[AliTheZombie13]

"Dragon Ball Character has expired their relevance card and is now relegated to just hang around and do nothing forever."
Is a trope I wish Toriyama had never invented. If he wanted to get rid of Boo, then get rid of Boo. Have Daima open with Gomah killing him or something.

[Yuji]

Boo was a villain for an entire arc - a long arc, at that. To claim the character isn't interesting when he carried 100 chapters through serious and comedic tones is insane to me.

[AliTheZombie13]

I don't know, but... "Boo finds out who's his real father (or mother in this case), what he actually is, what that means to his life, how that changes his perception of his new friends, especially Mr. Satan, and whether he accepts or denies his heritage" sounds like a HELL of an interesting concept to me.

But I know I'm gonna get people telling me that Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be that deep or serious or melodramatic or whatever and they should not do anything interesting with it, ever.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball is cheap sentimentality from a guy who otherwise just drew what he wanted while also taking notes from other people who had a product to sell. It's why we keep getting these older characters coming back for cheap scenes that add nothing and all blend together.

A serious story for Majin Buu would require anyone involved with this franchise being allowed to think about the characters and what can and should be done to freshen the series up at all. Instead, they're all playing by very strict and arbitrary rules that ultimately just limit the kind of stories that can be told.

[Yuji]

I don't know, but... "Boo finds out who's his real father (or mother in this case), what he actually is, what that means to his life, how that changes his perception of his new friends, especially Mr. Satan, and whether he accepts or denies his heritage" sounds like a HELL of an interesting concept to me.

But I know I'm gonna get people telling me that Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be that deep or serious or melodramatic or whatever and they should not do anything interesting with it, ever.

Even if Boo's role in GT served as nothing more than a powerup for Oob, I did like his arc there. He seemed to have developed into a wiser figure after spending some time on Earth.

[LoganForkHands73]

I agree with GS123, Buu being kept alive looks like a problem Toriyama was not expecting.

I personally think he kept Buu alive simply because he enjoyed the character too much to kill him off, and because the Buu arc was meant to be Dragon Ball's final arc, there wouldn't be any future stories he would need to be thinking ahead to at that time.

Keeping Buu alive is being framed as a mistake on Toriyama's part, but people seem to be forgetting the context here: As far as Toriyama was concerned, there wasn't going to be anything after the Buu arc, at least not from him; so this criticism reads as people faulting Toriyama (a very burnt-out Toriyama at that) for not being clairvoyant.

That being said: As much as I love Buu, I'd rather him not be here if they don't have anything for him to do. I'd rather not have another Future Arc Vegetto situation where it feels like the character is only here for fanservice and is otherwise superfluous to the story.

Lastly, I'd argue he has enough presence through his reputation and legacy alone. And frankly, Buu himself is so simple-minded and carefree that I don't get the sense that he even knows or cares about how infamous he is.

Yeah, Toriyama apparently loved writing Buu and keeping his good persona alive was a heartfelt gesture to end the original manga on, but he had no plans beyond that and it just so happens most of the ideas he's had (or been prompted to develop) for modern Dragon Ball have had little to do with Buu and instead focused on other characters or parts of the setting. I don't think there's any particular slight against Buu, especially since his arc is so frequently referenced throughout Super and even more so in Daima.

I think Toriyama simply views Fat Buu as more of a comedic prop than compelling protagonist material. He was more interested in showing Buu as a naïve, literal-minded dunce with no concept of good and evil who could simultaneously restore a blind boy's sight while feeding him milk made of dead human matter, before merrily flying off to eradicate another civilisation. His redemption arc was surprisingly poignant, but even that was a vehicle for more wacky antics with Mr. Satan.

Tellingly, the only parts of the arc where Fat Buu is unambiguously heroic is when he goes up against his own evil halves, and in both instances, he pretty much gets annihilated.

The few times in Super where Buu stepped up to fight were undeniably fun, but only because they took advantage of Buu's lighthearted nature and left you wanting more. Trying to force him to become "plot relevant" is seemingly a fool's errand because his whole characterisation is based around him being an idiot who'll maybe beat up the bad guy for a Scooby Snack, if he feels like it. It's hard to portray him as just another one of the good guys because it takes away a big part of his appeal.

In Daima, his reputation looms over the plot heavily, so I don't feel his absence very much at all. Though perhaps I've come to terms that Buu's time in the spotlight is long over and don't care for him being there for the sake of being there.

I don't know, but... "Boo finds out who's his real father (or mother in this case), what he actually is, what that means to his life, how that changes his perception of his new friends, especially Mr. Satan, and whether he accepts or denies his heritage" sounds like a HELL of an interesting concept to me.

But I know I'm gonna get people telling me that Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be that deep or serious or melodramatic or whatever and they should not do anything interesting with it, ever.

There are ways of doing interesting stuff with Buu, but I don't buy that he would give even a single shred of a shit about who his creator is or isn't, or his heritage, or anything high minded like that. The guy has the IQ of tap water temperature and if he can't fight or eat something, how do you expect him to care? Has he ever spared a thought about Bibidi or Babidi?

Stuff like this sounds great on paper but it doesn't take the actual characters into consideration. There are some characters like Vegeta and Piccolo who have big enough "internal worlds" to incorporate headier material into their storylines, but Buu ain't one of them.

[AliTheZombie13]

There are ways of doing interesting stuff with Buu, but I don't buy that he would give even a single shred of a shit about who his creator is or isn't, or his heritage, or anything high minded like that. The guy has the IQ of tap water temperature and if he can't fight or eat something, how do you expect him to care? Has he ever spared a thought about Bibidi or Babidi?

Stuff like this sounds great on paper but it doesn't take the actual characters into consideration. There are some characters like Vegeta and Piccolo who have big enough "internal worlds" to incorporate headier material into their storylines, but Buu ain't one of them.

Boo acted like a baby during the Boo arc because he was... You know... a baby. He had just been born.
And another great part of his appeal, one that you seem to be actively trying to erase here, is that the story explicitly frames Boo as a misguided child who only caused destruction and despair because he was raised by evil people. Then he starts meeting and socializing with good people instead and grows into a good person.

You're trying to act like the Boo from the end of the manga is exactly the same Boo at the start of his arc, who thought it was okay to turn people into milk/candy and commit genocide for fun. After that point, he learns compassion, he develops, whereas the Boo you're describing wouldn't have given two fucks if Bee or Mr. Satan had died, like he should not have any sort of character development and should remain a callous idiot forever because that's apparently what you think his character is all about, when a large part of his arc is all about his relationship with Mr. Satan and his growth.

[Jord]

I don't know, but... "Boo finds out who's his real father (or mother in this case), what he actually is, what that means to his life, how that changes his perception of his new friends, especially Mr. Satan, and whether he accepts or denies his heritage" sounds like a HELL of an interesting concept to me.

But I know I'm gonna get people telling me that Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be that deep or serious or melodramatic or whatever and they should not do anything interesting with it, ever.

Even if Boo's role in GT served as nothing more than a powerup for Oob, I did like his arc there. He seemed to have developed into a wiser figure after spending some time on Earth.

He had a small part in GT but it was meaningful. I also liked his interaction with Uub during the next tournament. It beats "Buu is asleep", which Super tried and failed with.

To me, it seems that Toriyama simply had no idea on how to write Buu after Z. Such as shame, since he's an interesting character, with a unique personality and unique powers. The fight he did have in Super, against one of the wolves, was awesome. Such a shame that they did nothing with him afterwards. I would love to have seen him in the ToP.

[LoganForkHands73]

Boo acted like a baby during the Boo arc because he was... You know... a baby. He had just been born.
And another great part of his appeal, one that you seem to be actively trying to erase here, is that the story explicitly frames Boo as a misguided child who only caused destruction and despair because he was raised by evil people. Then he starts meeting and socializing with good people instead and grows into a good person.

You're trying to act like the Boo from the end of the manga is exactly the same Boo at the start of his arc, who thought it was okay to turn people into milk/candy and commit genocide for fun.

Buu never really stopped being a baby, he's just pacified into no longer being actively malevolent. There's no indication he actually felt guilty for his crimes, or introspected about anything at all. Mr. Satan simply told him that killing was bad and he accepted it because Satan was kind to him.

All that is to say, why would discovering his creator profoundly bother him and why would he suddenly face a dilemma about his love for Mr. Satan? Like, he already knows he's a demonic monster created by an evil sorcerer, now he knows he's made by a different evil sorcerer. Nothing really changes.

I'm really not trying to pooh-pooh your idea here, but it just doesn't feel cogent with the character. Nothing we've been shown about Buu indicates he's a big picture thinker (or a thinker at all). He's still mentally a child who cares only about his own selfish desires, except now he doesn't get kicks from murdering random people.

After that point, he learns compassion, he develops, whereas the Boo you're describing wouldn't have given two fucks if Bee or Mr. Satan had died, like he should not have any sort of character development and should remain a callous idiot forever because that's apparently what you think his character is all about, when a large part of his arc is all about his relationship with Mr. Satan and his growth.

Yes, Buu is a callous idiot and my point is that seems to be the way Toriyama preferred him, because he found that more amusing than having him become just another strong member of the gang.

[LightBing]

In-universe there's not many reasons to take Boo. Only Nahare knew all the connections and even he doesn't know all the recent developments, only us the viewers do.

Plus Boo already faced his master(beheading him) and faced more than one version of himself. We would just be repeating the Boo arc.

Nahare development was the best choice and already encompasses much of what Boo might contribute. The latter already had an actual arc and development, while Kaioshin really needed to be given stories.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I find it interesting (and maybe a bit peculiar?) to see a number of takes about Toriyama 'not knowing what to do with writing Buu' when the man himself said he would have made him a central character if he were to write "another Dragon Ball". Seems he knew just what he'd do with the character. It's not even that there was necessarily a problem writing Buu into Dragon World in actual stories; Toriyama wrote him quite prominently into Neko Majin Z #4, in a series that also centred around creatures that are pretty much like Buu (in the sense that they, too, are very powerful and goofy Majin hanging around doing dopey gag stuff in Dragon World).

Of course, whether that approach really fits a story like Daima is another question.

I think that if Buu doesn't show up in Daima, my guess is that it's because of the way he is already present in an instrumental sense - the way in which his stolen essence is already directly aligned with the villains in the cast and the powerful Majin they're trying to create (possibly more than one? Marbah has two Saibaiman seeds, and she made a big deal of the correlation between depth of planting and increase in exposure to Buu's essence, so there's an opening for a still more powerful and more 'Buu-like' Majin than Kuu).

If the villains are already occupying all the 'Buu-ish' ground in the story, (re-)presenting what's 'relevant' about Buu in a particular way and leading the story in a particular direction as a result, then introducing the genuine article as well risks muddying things unless you intend to do something very clear and specific with him for the sake of the story. Sure he's his own character, but bringing him in just because he's theoretically personally relevant isn't enough.

[AliTheZombie13]

Buu never really stopped being a baby, he's just pacified into no longer being actively malevolent. There's no indication he actually felt guilty for his crimes, or introspected about anything at all. Mr. Satan simply told him that killing was bad and he accepted it because Satan was kind to him. [...] I'm really not trying to pooh-pooh your idea here, but it just doesn't feel cogent with the character. Nothing we've been shown about Buu indicates he's a big picture thinker (or a thinker at all). He's still mentally a child who cares only about his own selfish desires, except now he doesn't get kicks from murdering random people.

My big problem with this assumption is that Dragon Ball was supposed to end at the Boo arc, it was never really meant to continue, so whether Boo remained a baby or became a well-adjusted wiser adult was never really considered by Toriyama, at all. GT's writers sure assumed that with Satan guiding him, his character would become more than just a destructive baby, and I honestly prefer that direction over his character remaining so static.

It's the same effect of insisting that Vegeta should remain Goku-obsessed for the rest of his life like he does in modern Dragon Ball because that's apparently all his character is good for, being Goku's Rival, so he's forced to learn the same lesson all over again and is only ever allowed to develop at the very, very, very, very tail-end of the show.

[Chuquita]

While I would've liked for Buu to have joined the adventure for both comedic and plot reasons, I'm just glad that at least Piccolo's on one of the teams since this concerns him too. (I also still think that whenever the Daima dragon gets summoned they're gonna need someone who speaks namekian like they did on Planet Namek).

The more I look at this through the lens of what this was originally supposedly supposed to be (a DB web-series in the vein of that chibi Rock Lee spinoff) the more things about Daima make sense.

For better or worse, I don't think Daima's getting any deeper or bigger stakes than it is now. (Which probably would've leant well to having Buu along for the ride).

[Mr Baggins]

Even if Boo's role in GT served as nothing more than a powerup for Oob, I did like his arc there. He seemed to have developed into a wiser figure after spending some time on Earth.

Buu has no character arc in GT.

He shows up, immediately decides to merge and leave his life behind because "hey we're from the same dude, it's time", despite having no reason to care or any existing relationship with Uub that would compel him into doing so, then fucks off for basically the remainder of the show. This just isn't sincere character writing, nor is there any prior growth on par with his development in the original manga to justify that kind of plot contrivance that ultimately amounted to nothing anyway.

Drama can be good. Forced melodrama that requires suspension of disbelief and means nothing is never good, and that can be applied to most of GT as a whole.

For a better look at how Toriyama would have written this character post DB, look no further than his appearance in Neko Majin. Even reformed, Buu is just a simple-minded, endearingly innocent fellow that wants to have fun. To make him anything else would be inherently less interesting or complementary to the ethos of Dragon Ball, and his arc in the original story is already perfect.

As for his role in Daima, lemme just say what I've always said about ancillary characters – unless the writer wants to do something with him, he's owed absolutely nothing. This applies to all storytelling.