"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Saiyan007]

After Daima's episode today i would say this is pretty accurate. If base Goku could survive for some time against Tamagashi it would seem he's a lot stronger than he lets on

[Magnificent Ponta]

Haven't seen this noted here, so I thought I would relay it for anybody's interest:

Apparently Victory Uchida and Toyotarou will be panel guests at Jump Festa, and Toyotarou will be doing a Goku illustration live.

Though he's done a number of pieces for key art and display year on year, I don't recall Toyotarou being a panel guest at Jump Festa before (by all means correct me if this recollection isn't right, I'm speaking offhand); speculatively, it seems an obvious opportunity to drop at least a hint about what future the Super Manga might have, since V-Jump is still taking the trouble to say it's on hiatus.

If literally nothing relevant comes out of this then the chances of a "proper" return probably take a pretty sharp dive - though perhaps they might not want to tread on Daima while it's still going, so that still might not be the end of it (unless, of course, they come out and say it is ). But if Goku Day 2025 passes without anything being mentioned at all, I'd say the chances of anything more for the Super Manga (apart from maybe something like a special epilogue one-shot somewhere down the line) probably dip to around zero.

That would be fine - I think Chapter 103 is as fine an ending on the page as might have been hoped for, despite being unplanned - but it would be a bit of a whimper.

[Noah]

They are waiting for Daima to finish. After that, i think in March, they will probably continue with the manga.

How about continue the anime too? Even though I used to joke a lot about Toei ignoring Moro and Granola, I think it's finally time for those arcs to get animated. If they ignore them after Daima, maybe it's because they never took Toyotaro and his stories seriously (like I always thought)

[Vegard Aune]

Wasn't there something about the ongoing rights dispute making it so that they literally can't touch the manga-exclusive content? Because I feel like if they can get that resolved, Moro and Granollah will absolutely get animated. For the simple and extremely cynical reason that it's more content that's already been written and that Toriyama had at least some hand in. From a marketing perspective it just makes sense. And like... the people making those calls? The marketing perspective is the only perspective they care about.

[SupremeKai25]

With animation, voice acting, and well-written Toei original content, the Moro arc will be peak animated Dragon Ball.

It's got everything. Lore and mystery, varied settings (not just the same desert wasteland all the time), fan-service for the side characters, a fulfilling and impactful climax, and Moro himeslf, a well-written and well-thought villain, with an interesting gimmick and charismatic personality.

It's so funny how the first and last Super original villain on the screen was Zamasu over 8 years ago.

I really want the Moro arc to be animated. I was very, VERY critical of this arc at first, but over the years, I have re-evaluated both Moro the villain and his arc.

The Granolah arc can be skipped though, LOL!

[Zephyr]

The rights dispute certainly isn't preventing manga stuff from making it into games (which, as I understand it, were also on Iyoku's radar for Capsule Corp. Tokyo). Given that, Toyble's manga not being animated could be due more to a lack of interest than rights limbo.

[sangofe]

The rights dispute certainly isn't preventing manga stuff from making it into games (which, as I understand it, were also on Iyoku's radar for Capsule Corp. Tokyo). Given that, Toyble's manga not being animated could be due more to a lack of interest than rights limbo.

Oh yeah? Is there lists for what from the Super manga has been implimented into Sparking Zero?

[AtlasFlame18]

The rights dispute certainly isn't preventing manga stuff from making it into games (which, as I understand it, were also on Iyoku's radar for Capsule Corp. Tokyo). Given that, Toyble's manga not being animated could be due more to a lack of interest than rights limbo.

I'm fairly certain it's a rights issue since Dokkan Battle, Legends and Heroes which has no issues pulling from every other part of the franchise do not have any of the characters or transformations from the manga only arcs.

[Zephyr]

The rights dispute certainly isn't preventing manga stuff from making it into games (which, as I understand it, were also on Iyoku's radar for Capsule Corp. Tokyo). Given that, Toyble's manga not being animated could be due more to a lack of interest than rights limbo.

Oh yeah? Is there lists for what from the Super manga has been implimented into Sparking Zero?

Not sure if anyone's compiled a list, but off the top of my head I know that one of Goku Black's attacks is from the manga, "Black Bind" (not sure if that's the official name or not).

I'm fairly certain it's a rights issue since Dokkan Battle, Legends and Heroes which has no issues pulling from every other part of the franchise do not have any of the characters or transformations from the manga only arcs.

Yeah, it definitely could be a rights thing. Maybe techniques and attacks are a sort of grey area? Or maybe they're getting slipped in under the radar.

[AtlasFlame18]

The rights dispute certainly isn't preventing manga stuff from making it into games (which, as I understand it, were also on Iyoku's radar for Capsule Corp. Tokyo). Given that, Toyble's manga not being animated could be due more to a lack of interest than rights limbo.

Oh yeah? Is there lists for what from the Super manga has been implimented into Sparking Zero?

Not sure if anyone's compiled a list, but off the top of my head I know that one of Goku Black's attacks is from the manga, "Black Bind" (not sure if that's the official name or not).

I'm fairly certain it's a rights issue since Dokkan Battle, Legends and Heroes which has no issues pulling from every other part of the franchise do not have any of the characters or transformations from the manga only arcs.

Yeah, it definitely could be a rights thing. Maybe techniques and attacks are a sort of grey area? Or maybe they're getting slipped in under the radar.

I think moves are allowed since that's how Gamma Burst Flash got into Sparking Zero

[Grimlock]

The rights dispute certainly isn't preventing manga stuff from making it into games (which, as I understand it, were also on Iyoku's radar for Capsule Corp. Tokyo). Given that, Toyble's manga not being animated could be due more to a lack of interest than rights limbo.

You're absolutely right in thinking that the "rights dispute" has nothing to do with preventing manga stuff from appearing in games. We have plenty of evidences just in the Dragon Ball franchise alone (Neko Majin, Gine, Jaco... all appeared in games prior to their debut appearances in a series). Expanding to other franchises, we see the same thing, Naruto's Baryon Mode, Luffy's Gear 5... They all began to receive merchandising and appearing in games after their debut in the TV series.

This has always been a thing, with a few expections, they wait for the appearance in the anime before appearing anywhere else. For some reason, after this "right dispute" came out, everyone just simply associated one thing to another out of nowhere.

[Zephyr]

I think moves are allowed since that's how Gamma Burst Flash got into Sparking Zero

Right. But the notion that moves have a different sort of legal standing than forms or characters just seems a little odd. I mean, maybe they do and I don't know what I'm talking about. But I feel like anything original and unique to the manga should be in the same boat.

[AtlasFlame18]

I think moves are allowed since that's how Gamma Burst Flash got into Sparking Zero

Right. But the notion that moves have a different sort of legal standing than forms or characters just seems a little odd. I mean, maybe they do and I don't know what I'm talking about. But I feel like anything original and unique to the manga should be in the same boat.

I don't think we'll ever know the full story but seeing as Heroes was willing to take an obscure villain such as Majin Ozotto as their final boss while completely ignoring TUI, UE, Moro Corps, Granolah, Heeters, etc while adding in everything that showed up in the Super anime + movies leads me to believe that it has to be some type of legal technicality.

This is the same game that put in the fucking no name Barbarian from Universe 10 in its roster. They definitely would put in the new main villains if they could.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Tiny Spoiler if you haven't seen Daima Episode 10, I guess

Spoiler:

Interestingly a screenshot of (an apparently legitimate but now deleted) Threads Post by Toyotarou has surfaced on Twitter, in which he notes he designed several of the Kaioshin of the various universes (thus having an "indirect" link with Daima - 8 Kaioshin, all of whom appeared in Super, are shown in passing in Episode 10).

We already knew Toyotarou had collaborated with Toriyama in designing the various Gods of Destruction for the Tournament of Power arc, with some being entirely his design, but would this constitute the first direct confirmation that he actually designed some of the Kaioshin also? While he put up some Kaioshin design scribbles on his Twitter feed in 2017, they weren't any of the Kaioshin who appeared in the story, and I don't recall anybody previously noting that Toyotarou was responsible for any of the final Kaioshin designs.

If anybody knows of any earlier confirmation on this point, it'd be neat to see!

[Mr Baggins]

If anybody knows of any earlier confirmation on this point, it'd be neat to see!

While not exactly official confirmation, Toyotaro appeared on a segment of JUMPolice in late 2017 where some attentive viewers noticed a couple of unused Angel and Kaioshin designs pinned to his office wall. They weren't in isolation – many of the finalized Angel/Kaioshin characters, also clearly appearing to be drawn by Toyotaro, were on those same design sheets.

Either that video isn't available anymore (sadly) or I can't find it. But you can still dig up websites and tweets of people mentioning it, and I believe Herms briefly covered the segment too.

Edit: here's an old Kanzenshuu thread with two screenshots of the video at the bottom of the OP. So yeah, it looks like they collaborated on all the divine races in the US/ToP arc.

[SupremeKai25]

Uhm... is he not referring to the Supreme Kais who appeared in the Tournament of Power?

Yeah, quite clearly there is a DIRECT link between Super and Daima.

[Dragmobot12]

I genuinely enjoy when people create their own content to entertain the community—sometimes it's quirky, other times it's great. As Jump Festa approaches, there's a lot of content circulating that could be misleading, often intended to be humorous, like this particular one that's already making the rounds. There’s still no official information on it, but I'd love to know what’s going on here, maybe there's a hidden joke or something, so if someone knows the original source of this peace, please clarify. Anyway, thanks in advance!

Spoiler:

[Magnificent Ponta]

While not exactly official confirmation, Toyotaro appeared on a segment of JUMPolice in late 2017 where some attentive viewers noticed a couple of unused Angel and Kaioshin designs pinned to his office wall. They weren't in isolation – many of the finalized Angel/Kaioshin characters, also clearly appearing to be drawn by Toyotaro, were on those same design sheets.

Ah, thanks for this! So, apparently no official confirmation before now, but enough info out there for people to have pieced it together already so it doesn't come as much of a surprise now. Gotcha. Thanks again!

Either that video isn't available anymore (sadly) or I can't find it. But you can still dig up websites and tweets of people mentioning it, and I believe Herms briefly covered the segment too.

I believe this is the JUMPolice segment in question; I went searching for it a few months back for other reasons - no English subtitles on this video, alas (Malay, it seems?), but at least a version of the segment is still out "in the wild" in case anybody wishes to refer to it and/or save it for posterity.

Uhm... is he not referring to the Supreme Kais who appeared in the Tournament of Power?

Yeah, quite clearly there is a DIRECT link between Super and Daima.

The indirect link I am referring to is that between Toyotarou and Daima (as in, he didn't directly work on Daima but his work has found its way into it), not Super and Daima (which are, as you say, directly linked thereby). Apologies for any unclarity and confusion here.

[Mr Baggins]

No prob! Another thing that solidifies it for me is Whis, Vados, and Korn (the only Angels confirmed to have been designed by Toriyama) all being conspicuously absent from Toyotaro's design sheets in the video. I wonder if the one unused Angel shown there was replaced by Korn in pre-production.

It's kinda wild to think that Toyotaro actually designed most of the Angels, though I guess not terribly surprising. They definitely fit his style and approach.

[LoganForkHands73]

I've seen some discussions about Goku's characterisation in Daima, and it reminded me of some old debates/discussions about the Granolah arc. This is very much an exercise in dragging some dusty skeletons out of the closet, but here goes nothing.

So, back when the controversial plot point of Granolah using the Cerealian Dragon Balls to wish to become the strongest in the universe was first revealed, there were rumbling questions of why Goku or any of the previous wishers wouldn't use them for the same thing. I always argued that even if Goku knew it was an option, he probably wouldn't do it except in the very gravest of circumstances, because he hates to undermine his own well-earned strength. A counter-argument was that he and Vegeta reluctantly resorted to Potara Fusion despite understanding that it would be permanent.

Goku is a naturally curious guy. Even though permanent fusion wasn't ideal, he was excited by the prospect of seeing just how strong a combination of him and Vegeta would be. When he finds the fusion bugs in the Demon Realm, he's similarly interested in eventually using them. In general, he's enthusiastic about many things throughout the adventure, which is quite refreshing to see. Like the audience, Goku likes fusion because it's cool, even if it's not the most "honest" way to increase his power. He smiles each time he's about to become Gogeta or Vegetto, whereas Vegeta scowls his usual scowl.

Using the Dragon Balls to wish for more power is the opposite of cool. It's boring, unimaginative and there are too many potential drawbacks, as Granolah and Gas both discover.