Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 10 - Official Discussion Thread

[Xeogran]

Also...am I wrong or did Goku say that he's not strong enough to beat a Kraken? That's pretty crazy. Kraken > super saiyan 3/majin boo

I'm thinking that Goku doesn't feel as if he can turn Super Saiyan 3 in this body just yet.
It's still crazy enough for the Kraken to be SS2 tier

[SupremeKai25]

Rewatching the episode, I just noticed Rymus chose Shin to be the Kaioshin of Universe 7... What??? What happened to the other 5 Kaioshins who lived with him??? What happened to the Old Kaioshin who preceeded him 15 generations past??????!!!!

I think them not creating new one-off designs is messing with the visual representation, he then says afterwards that he didn't immediately leave and was chosen as a Supreme Kai later.

So Gowasu and the other Kaioshins from Super are not canon?

No... why would you even come to this conclusion? They literally appear in this episode, all of them, who were also at the Tournament of Power:

[JulieYBM]

Gowasu and other Kaioushin are literally in this episode of Daima, though?

As a visual representation only, apparently.
If that's the case, Redgic is canonically a part of the Freeza Force. GT can still happen

Nahare's dialogue specifies that Rymus chose Glinds and sent them out to be Kaioushin and monitor the various universes. Nahare's monologue is there supporting and building up who Gokuu and friends will later meet in Dragon Ball Super. The decision to visually represent Gowasu and the other Kaioushin would have been up to Series Director Yashima Yoshitaka, who storyboarded the episode himself. There's no greater authority on the subject than Yashima.

[StaticMania]

This was a pretty good episode.

First off, for Majin Kuu...

The animation in general and his actual mannerisms are saving this "initial" design extremely hard. His fight with Tamagami #1 was pretty interesting, got some interesting moves.

Though I am very much waiting for him to show off the acid attack, the Saibaiman additive is not showing its relevance yet...I really want to see that. Otherwise, this was nice...and it works as a sneak peak (kind of) for Tamagami #1. The guardian itself doesn't do much of interest.

---

The first threat of this new world is a Space Ship fight. That's something that Dragon Ball hasn't really done in earnest before...there was filler during the flight to Namek and GT had a video game scene showing Ship to Ship combat. Even from the Red Ribbon Army...air combat was only ever targeted to the exposed, non-ship non-piloting Goku.

And since Glorio isn't some experienced air fighter, he has no ability to fight back with their own guns. So as a result...we get Red Ribbon Army type situation where the exposed Goku goes around destroying their ships easily with his Power Pole.

But the first REAL threat being a giant Kraken is cool and expected. Stuff like that honestly hasn't even presented much of a danger to the characters before. I like how Goku even tells Vegeta that they aren't powerful enough to fight it.

And it destroys their ship...but that's ok. I was genuinely confused as to what Panzy was going back for...and I feel dumb for not realizing it was the Dragon Ball before Shin brought it up.

Also really surprising...Glorio's genuine concern and look of relief when it seemed Goku & Panzy were eaten & then escaped. He's been pretty lowkey in his expressiveness so far even when overwhelmed during his fight with Goku. Seeing him actually look panicked and happy is not something I was expecting.

---

They visit the Namek home world...just as a resting stop I guess because they don't do much here. Interesting they bring up that the Nameks actually brought plants and stuff from their original planet to make residence at the actual planet Namek from the series.

There is a reason for that and it serves as a reminder of why New Namek would look different (in the manga anyway).

When it was mentioned that nobody was there, I thought Goku was going to sense that were some remaining stragglers...but he just sensed his friends. An odd thing to come of that is the reveal that Neva was there, it makes sense if he still lives there or just occasionally visits for personal reasons...but it's weird that Goku didn't sense him.

The 2 groups meet up Again (!)...for real this time though. Goku's just being a real team player, he shows up to signal them of danger and nothing else.

And it looks like that whoever made the joke prediction that "soon it'll be revealed everything is from the Demon Realm" is pretty much correct.

---

Character interactions were strong this episode. That's another thing that's been a little lacking...but this was great.

[AliTheZombie13]

Whether Gowasu and the other Kaioshins from Super exist in this continuity, whether Daima is connected to Super at all, the truth is... I really just don't care lol
Thing is, I will take every opportunity I get to mock the concept of "canon" in Dragon Ball. Sorry. (✿◡‿◡)

[SupremeKai25]

So, looks like Zeno is the child of this Rymus. There were many theories about how Zeno acts like a spoiled brat, which is unfit behaviour for a King.

I guess Zeno is just a Nepo Baby and that's how he got the job from his daddy lol. The Grand Minister must have been appointed by Rymus to serve as Zeno's Guardian/Regent.

This also means that there's even more universes out there, as well as Rymus of course. Rymus' power seems to be unlimited. Why would he stop at 18 Universes?

Since Rymus can create entire universes at his whim, it's no surprise that Zeno and the Grand Priest did not hesitate to hit the "reset" button on those 12 Universes at the Tournament of Power.

In my opinion, this episode contains the most important lore drop in the entire history of the Revival.

[AliTheZombie13]

Back to speaking seriously:
Super explicitly states Zen'O is the ultimate authority of the multiverse.
Daima explicitly states Rymus is the ultimate authority of the multiverse.
Both shows present information that contradict each other.

I don't accept fan head-canon justifications for what I perceive to be obvious inconsistencies and plot holes, so I'll wait until the show clarifies further, or doesn't, in which case I keep treating Daima and Super as separate continuities. And this is the last I'll say about the subject.

[StaticMania]

Sounds like an annoying mindset for discussion.

But it is what it is.

[Grimlock]

Finally some heavy lore info episode, which means I have something to say, I've been much absent from these episode threads than I'd like to be:

• Wanting to expand the Demon Realm is Towa's goal in Dragon Ball Heroes (and in Xenoverse 2, if I'm not mistaken). So some connection there.

• It turns out I was right in alerting everyone that just because Zeno is the ruler of the Multiverse and can erase them, doesn't mean he also create them. Creating and destroying are separated concepts (hence Gods of Creation and Gods of Destruction), so it only makes sense there to be another god who created the Universes.

• Kaioshin of East knows about the creation of the Multiverse and even who its creator is, but he has never heard of Zeno before. If he was told of all this, why wasn't he told of Zeno too?

• The shared position of "highest authority" is similar to Marvel, One Above All and One Below All also hold it. Though in Marvel's case, they are the same entity. Dragon Ball Daima also "subvert expectations" by making the creator of the Multiverse hailing from the "lowest plane of existence".

• After learning who Rymus is, why didn't Goku, Vegeta and Bulma bring him up when they meet Zeno for the first time? And again when Beerus and Whis expand a little bit more on him in later episodes? It sounds like something they should ask about upon meeting someone that comes with the "he holds the highest authority" tag.

• Bulma asks if every single being is a descendant of the Majins, to which Kaioshin of East replies that not everyone is. The thing is, Gurindojins, at least those who become Kaioshins, are the Gods of Creation, so, in a way, they are all indeed connected to the Majins. "Descendant" might just not be right word for it.

• When Glinds become extinct, there will not be Kaioshins, which means there will not be Gods of Creation anymore. So the Dragon Ball Multiverse, and therefore the Dragon Ball franchise as a whole, is fated to die at one point ("Sugoi nah!" - Hybis, 2024).

• Multiverse is once again mentioned in the presence of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo and Bulma. It's unlikely all four of them would have forgotten about this "detail" in Dragon Ball Super.


I still want an explanation as to why the other Universes didn't have five Kaioshins like Universe 7 had. Though I like that we finally have an explanation as to why the other Kaioshins weren't replaced after they were killed by Buu.

[AtlasFlame18]

Back to speaking seriously:
Super explicitly states Zen'O is the ultimate authority of the multiverse.
Daima explicitly states Rymus is the ultimate authority of the multiverse.
Both shows present information that contradict each other.

I don't accept fan head-canon justifications for what I perceive to be obvious inconsistencies and plot holes, so I'll wait until the show clarifies further, or doesn't, in which case I keep treating Daima and Super as separate continuities.

Zen'Oh is the current king of all. Rymus was the creator of the multiverse. These are two different positions within the cosmology. You can hate Super but don't push a false narrative that it's not in Continuity. The fact that every Supreme Kai from Super appeared in this episode proves that they are sticking to Super being in Continuity.

[AliTheZombie13]

Zen'Oh is the current king of all. Rymus was the creator of the multiverse. These are two different positions within the cosmology. You can hate Super but don't push a false narrative that it's not in Continuity. The fact that every Supreme Kai from Super appeared in this episode proves that they are sticking to Super being in Continuity.

There's no but's, no if's, no "He only created it, he doesn't rule it"'s here.
Shin explicitly states Rymus is still the highest authority in the universe.
What does that make of Zen'O?

Sure, you can theorize Rymus died and Zen'O replaced him somehow, but nothing in the show has said that yet.
And considering Daima's habit of lore dumpings that go nowhere, I'm not even sure it will.

[goku the krump dancer]

I halfway thought Arinsu was gonna destroy Kuu on the spot after he turned out to be nothing more than a jobber lol.

The Rymus stuff is REALLY interesting and is actually the only lore dump so far that feels important enough to have some sort of pay off later on. (I hope so).

The Pacing of the episode was fantastic, Tamigami 1 and Kuu get right to it, Goku and co make it to the 2nd Demon World with no stupid antics slowing them down and they quickly meet up with Vegeta and the others! Vegeta Fights Tamigami 2 next episode and well hopefully build on the important stuff from there.

I haven’t been this excited since episode 2!!

[nato25]

It can't be coincidence how similar the designs are between rymus and zen oh. Blue skin and exact same colour clothes. Has to be a connection there.

[Makaioshin]

The Kraken introduced in this episode is the most powerful and worthy adversary yet much like the worms from GT. Mostly speaks to the lack of a threat posed by anyone in this show so far despite it being halfway to completion.

Pretty good episode overall. Mix of meaningful action/comedy with Koo vs Tamagami 1 and, what the shows loves to do, more lore dump exposition. I wonder how much of the latter will connect to the end. Is Gomah's aim to become a Super Majin or could he already be one? I know it is typical for DB but I feel like the timeline with Katas being from Makai doesn't add up but we may hear more about that.

[fadeddreams5]

Once again, an episode with 80% fluff, and some lore dump. First of all, I predicted Majin Kuu would be a dud and lose to the tamagami, and i was right, but the fact that he is not killed and used as comic relief just shows the difference in tone between this and the original manga. If this was DBZ, the tamagami would have sliced him into pieces and blown up the remains, ala Trunks. That, or his "master" would have blown him up.

Secondly, the lore dump claims Shin was chosen as the supreme kai. No, he was not. Did Toriyama forget that there were other kaioshin in universe 7, including the Grand Supreme Kai? Shin was never chosen. He was a Kaioshin by default after Majin Buu eradicated all of them.

Zen'Oh is the current king of all. Rymus was the creator of the multiverse. These are two different positions within the cosmology. You can hate Super but don't push a false narrative that it's not in Continuity. The fact that every Supreme Kai from Super appeared in this episode proves that they are sticking to Super being in Continuity.

There's no but's, no if's, no "He only created it, he doesn't rule it"'s here.
Shin explicitly states Rymus is still the highest authority in the universe.
What does that make of Zen'O?

Sure, you can theorize Rymus died and Zen'O replaced him somehow, but nothing in the show has said that yet.
And considering Daima's habit of lore dumpings that go nowhere, I'm not even sure it will.

I'm actually a little confused over this because the sub says "they're" still the highest authority while referring to Rymus. So was that an error, or does he mean his species (including Zeno)? And if he's the highest authority, how could the previous demon king "order" him to do anything?

[AliTheZombie13]

I'm actually a little confused over this because the sub says "they're" still the highest authority while referring to Rymus. So was that an error, or does he mean his species (including Zeno)? And if he's the highest authority, how could the previous demon king "order" him to do anything?

Daima states Rymus is the creator of the multiverse and the highest authority of the universe.
That's exactly what it says.

What that implies, if Zen'O even exists in this continuity or will come to exist later to replace Rymus, if Shin is misinformed about who the highest authority of the universe/multiverse is, if Zen'O still exists and is the GoD to Rymus' Kaioshin despite Rymus never once being mentioned in Super at all is up for fan speculation.

But what the show is actually stating right now is exactly that.
Personally, I'm going with "Daima is a separate continuity and the multiverse works differently here."

[AtlasFlame18]

Once again, an episode with 80% fluff, and some lore dump. First of all, I predicted Majin Kuu would be a dud and lose to the tamagami, and i was right, but the fact that he is not killed and used as comic relief just shows the difference in tone between this and the original manga. If this was DBZ, the tamagami would have sliced him into pieces and blown up the remains, ala Trunks. That, or his "master" would have blown him up.

Secondly, the lore dump claims Shin was chosen as the supreme kai. No, he was not. Did Toriyama forget that there were other kaioshin in universe 7, including the Grand Supreme Kai? Shin was never chosen. He was a Kaioshin by default after Majin Buu eradicated all of them.

Zen'Oh is the current king of all. Rymus was the creator of the multiverse. These are two different positions within the cosmology. You can hate Super but don't push a false narrative that it's not in Continuity. The fact that every Supreme Kai from Super appeared in this episode proves that they are sticking to Super being in Continuity.

There's no but's, no if's, no "He only created it, he doesn't rule it"'s here.
Shin explicitly states Rymus is still the highest authority in the universe.
What does that make of Zen'O?

Sure, you can theorize Rymus died and Zen'O replaced him somehow, but nothing in the show has said that yet.
And considering Daima's habit of lore dumpings that go nowhere, I'm not even sure it will.

I'm actually a little confused over this because the sub says "they're" still the highest authority while referring to Rymus. So was that an error, or does he mean his species (including Zeno)? And if he's the highest authority, how could the previous demon king "order" him to do anything?

When Zen-Oh first appeared in the Universe 6 Arc Nahare explicitly did not who he was.

[No9tro]

Secondly, the lore dump claims Shin was chosen as the supreme kai. No, he was not. Did Toriyama forget that there were other kaioshin in universe 7, including the Grand Supreme Kai? Shin was never chosen. He was a Kaioshin by default after Majin Buu eradicated all of them.

That's not true at all though. Shin was one of the five Kaioshin when Majin Buu went on his rampage. Both the manga and the anime shows this. I don't see why we can't take Shin's word for it if he says he was chosen. It lines up just fine.

[JulieYBM]

Rymus using they/them pronouns is awesome, actually. I hope it sticks.

[fadeddreams5]

Secondly, the lore dump claims Shin was chosen as the supreme kai. No, he was not. Did Toriyama forget that there were other kaioshin in universe 7, including the Grand Supreme Kai? Shin was never chosen. He was a Kaioshin by default after Majin Buu eradicated all of them.

That's not true at all though. Shin was one of the five Kaioshin when Majin Buu went on his rampage. Both the manga and the anime shows this. I don't see why we can't take Shin's word for it if he says he was chosen. It lines up just fine.

Scratch what I wrote. I read the sub as he was chosen as "the" supreme kai. As in, one above all in his universe. It still bothers me that they did not show the other universe 7 kaioshin in the same frame with the other universe's kaioshin. In Super, each universe only has one, which leads me to believe Toriyama completely forgot about those other guys.

This lore dump completely fails to explain the link between them and gods of destruction too. If they're mere natives of the demon realm that escaped to the outside world, where do GoD come from? And why is only Nahare linked to his, but not the other Kaioshin that worked with him, or the Old Kai? Beerus trapped the Old Kai in a sword, so clearly he has existed for a very long time.

Rymus using they/them pronouns is awesome, actually. I hope it sticks.

It would make a lot of sense for them to be non-binary too.