Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 10 - Official Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

It stuck out to me when I was first watching the episode that Piccolo's parent is mentioned several times throughout the episode. Normally, I though think that he was referring to Daimaou, but since he's referring to a parent who might have once lived in the Second Demon Realm, it makes me wonder...do we think that God/Daimaou/Piccolo might actually be a direct descendant of Neva?

It was implied that Neva’s lifespan has been extended beyond his limits (likely using the lifespan taken from 3rd demon world majins), so he could be a direct ascendent of Piccolo’s parent, Katatz.

[JulieYBM]

It stuck out to me when I was first watching the episode that Piccolo's parent is mentioned several times throughout the episode. Normally, I though think that he was referring to Daimaou, but since he's referring to a parent who might have once lived in the Second Demon Realm, it makes me wonder...do we think that God/Daimaou/Piccolo might actually be a direct descendant of Neva?

It was implied that Neva’s lifespan has been extended beyond his limits (likely using the lifespan taken from 3rd demon world majins), so he could be a direct ascendent of Piccolo’s parent, Katatz.

I completely forgot that Katatz was Piccolo's parent lol. Okay, Neva being his grandparent would still work, though.

Well, unless Katatz took a different name for some reason.

[Koitsukai]

respectful snip

Was Zalama ever referenced in-universe? now that you mention it, I feel they (watch out, the biggotry army is coming) were namedropped when Super Shenron was introduced, but I'm not sure. If they were, then I guess Zalama is a descendent of Neva. In any case, we were wanting to see Zalama and we got someone even older.


About the Kaioshin, I'm not completely certain, but I think it goes like this:
-Rymus created the multiverse as per request of that Supreme Daimao, and appointed Glinds as gods (I guess the Hakaishin came later since they are mostly not demons and are absurdly strong, way stronger than any demon sans Rymus I pressume).
-Since we don't know how long ago that was, perhaps Ro Kaioshin was drafted many eons later, or maybe right off the bat.
-Fifteen generations later, Nahare is born, is appointed, the Tree is dying, Buu rampages on the Dai Makai and forces them to leave (IIRC, previously it was said Buu forced them away). Buu's rampage was said to happen 5 millon years ago, I believe.

So, I think there were two Glind exodus, the Rymus Draft and the one forced by Buu, which probably coincides with the Tree dying off. I don't know I'm still somewhat confused, I hope someone compiles it all after everything is said and done.

[Mr Baggins]

Was Zalama ever referenced in-universe?

Zuno calls him the "Dragon God" (龍神 – swap the kanji and you get "Shenlong" – hence the debates as to whether Zalama is Super Shenron himself or just the creator) and mentions he created the Super Dragon Balls in Divine Calendar Year 41 and then trademarked their refractive structure in Year 42; implying it was very early on in the history of the universe/multiverse.

Assuming this is one continuity, Neva would have to be extremely, ridiculously ancient to predate Zalama.

[Saimaroimaru]

Rymus using they/them pronouns is awesome, actually. I hope it sticks.

Please stick to the topic instead of woke politics.

If you're using terms like "woke" in a serious way, you most likely never completed preschool. Not good ethos. Not to mention, we had characters who don't have a gender in Dragon Ball. This is nothing new.

Namekians being male presenting, but also having the power to reproduce(asexually at that) should turn off people like that from the franchise. Dragon Ball has no issues creating characters & races who differ in that aspect. Yes, this franchise has a bunch of muscle bound idiots who scream to power up, but that is just a surface level reading or watching of the media.

respectful snip

Was Zalama ever referenced in-universe? now that you mention it, I feel they (watch out, the biggotry army is coming) were namedropped when Super Shenron was introduced, but I'm not sure. If they were, then I guess Zalama is a descendent of Neva. In any case, we were wanting to see Zalama and we got someone even older.


About the Kaioshin, I'm not completely certain, but I think it goes like this:
-Rymus created the multiverse as per request of that Supreme Daimao, and appointed Glinds as gods (I guess the Hakaishin came later since they are mostly not demons and are absurdly strong, way stronger than any demon sans Rymus I pressume).
-Since we don't know how long ago that was, perhaps Ro Kaioshin was drafted many eons later, or maybe right off the bat.
-Fifteen generations later, Nahare is born, is appointed, the Tree is dying, Buu rampages on the Dai Makai and forces them to leave (IIRC, previously it was said Buu forced them away). Buu's rampage was said to happen 5 millon years ago, I believe.

So, I think there were two Glind exodus, the Rymus Draft and the one forced by Buu, which probably coincides with the Tree dying off. I don't know I'm still somewhat confused, I hope someone compiles it all after everything is said and done.

Maybe Buu's rampage is part of the reason why the Glind trees are dying?

I don't see the new godly hierarchy as a problem. Being the ruler =/= creator. Also it adds a interesting dichotomy. The demon races are responsible for creation, but treated as evil. The gods, via Zeno & the Gods of Destruction, have only been shown to look for reasons to destroy & kill, are treated as good. The Supreme Kai seem less like overseerers trying to keep the Universes alive & thriving, and more like farmers raising livestock for their employers & colleagues.

[goku the krump dancer]

If nothing else, Namekians being from the Demon Realm helps gives Piccolo Daimaoh some credibility to his name lol.

[Thouser]

It stuck out to me when I was first watching the episode that Piccolo's parent is mentioned several times throughout the episode. Normally, I though think that he was referring to Daimaou, but since he's referring to a parent who might have once lived in the Second Demon Realm, it makes me wonder...do we think that God/Daimaou/Piccolo might actually be a direct descendant of Neva?

It was implied that Neva’s lifespan has been extended beyond his limits (likely using the lifespan taken from 3rd demon world majins), so he could be a direct ascendent of Piccolo’s parent, Katatz.

I completely forgot that Katatz was Piccolo's parent lol. Okay, Neva being his grandparent would still work, though.

Well, unless Katatz took a different name for some reason.

Not sure about every time it was mentioned, but at least at one point the official subs had Piccolo saying that “my father” was from the 2nd Makai and not himself, but in Japanese it sounded like he actually said not “father” but Oya-tachi (親達), so “parents” or forefathers/ancestors, plural. Of course Namekians have only one “parent” in the specific sense, so I guess it could be that Piccolo wasn’t saying that the 2nd Makai was where specifically Katattsu was from but just his forebears/the Namekku-jin in general.

[AtlasFlame18]

It stuck out to me when I was first watching the episode that Piccolo's parent is mentioned several times throughout the episode. Normally, I though think that he was referring to Daimaou, but since he's referring to a parent who might have once lived in the Second Demon Realm, it makes me wonder...do we think that God/Daimaou/Piccolo might actually be a direct descendant of Neva?

What if Piccolo's big fight in the climax of the series is against Neve, his parent?

I believe the parent he is referring to is Katas.

[Thouser]

It was implied that Neva’s lifespan has been extended beyond his limits (likely using the lifespan taken from 3rd demon world majins), so he could be a direct ascendent of Piccolo’s parent, Katatz.

I completely forgot that Katatz was Piccolo's parent lol. Okay, Neva being his grandparent would still work, though.

Well, unless Katatz took a different name for some reason.

Not sure about every time it was mentioned, but at least at one point the official subs had Piccolo saying that “my father” was from the 2nd Makai and not himself, but in Japanese it sounded like he actually said not “father” but Oya-tachi (親達), so “parents” or forefathers/ancestors, plural. Of course Namekians have only one “parent” in the specific sense, so I guess it could be that Piccolo wasn’t saying that the 2nd Makai was where specifically Katattsu was from but just his forebears/the Namekku-jin in general.

I double checked the episode. This is what I think Piccolo says around the 18 minute mark:

「ブルマにも言ったら　俺が生まれたのは親達がここを抜け出してからだ」

“I already told Bulma. I was born after my parents/ancestors broke free from here.”

In the earlier scene with Bulma he only says oya (parent), without the -tachi, so he could be talking about Katattsu there.

[Omori]

The 達 (tachi) in "親達 (oya-tachi) should refer to the people who were with Katatz at that time (basically "my parent and the others").
Judging by Neva's comment in EP1 ("I haven't seen a Namekian in tens of thousands of years") we can assume that this refers to Katatz age as well. So far we assumed Namekians live like 500 years, but that all sounds much longer. Same goes for the Namekian Grand Elder probably.

Curious around what time the Namekians actually settled on Planet Namek (and Cereal / U6 Namek etc). Maybe even much earlier and the events only describe the last ones leaving?

The timeline for the universe creation could also be something...
So probably something like this?
+100M years ago: Rymus creates the universes, some Glinds get appointed as Kaioshin
75M years ago: Old Kai gets sealed by Beerus
10M years ago: Daikaioshin vs. Moro
possibly in-between: Marba creates Buu who rampages around, Abura limits the use of Warp-sama, Nahare escapes and becomes Kaioshin
5M years ago: Buu attacks the Kaioshin Realm

Let's see if everything works out at the end

[Thouser]

The 達 (tachi) in "親達 (oya-tachi) should refer to the people who were with Katatz at that time (basically "my parent and the others").

I see, so it would be like when someone says something like Gokuu-tachi/Goku and co.

[Lord Beerus]

Majin Kuu's goofy and unorthodox fighting style kinda makes up for his hideous design. He was a lot of fun to watch.

Panzy continues to be the best character in the show and I pray that Daima is not the last time we see her.

Hybis deadpan style of humour is really starting to grow on me.

The final five minutes though... DAMN... it was just lore bomb after lore bomb after lore bomb, so much so, I had to rewatch that section of the episode just to take everything in. I will give Daima a massive amount of credit for its willingness to shake up the status quo, at the very least from a cosmology sense. And although I'm more of a "Characterisation first, lore second" kinda guy, even I have to admit that I'm very impressed and quite enamoured with Daima going all out in trying to make the universe(s) as unique as possible. It is certainly swinging for the fences at the very least and that has to be commended.

The main cast is finally together... which means we're probably at the halfway point of the story already.

Fantastic episode.

[Almighty Majin]

Majin Kuu's design kind of grew on me, but I never really hated it to begin with. Kuu's character is really funny and cool to see. He has way more personality than Buu and I hope he sticks around. Hybis is hilarious as usual. The lore drops were insane. Rymus is probably the final piece of the creator-destroyer-angel trinity for Zeno and the Grand Priest. I wonder if this lore will become relevant later whenever Super returns. On a similar note, I wonder if that Supreme Demon King is still around, just residing in another realm as the true ruler of all reality. Also the Good Supreme Demon King looks like the final boss from Dragon Quest VIII.

Tamagami #1 is badass btw.

[lancerman]

I have to imagine that, with how lore focused this has been, Piccolo's status as a reincarnation is kept in mind, with Piccolo Daimao not actually being his father.

He's still the Nameless Namekian, the son of Katas.

Makes me wonder if Katas will actually be explored here.

Isn't current Piccolo in a bit of a weird spot regardless because he merged with Kami. So he's like half of the Nameless Namekian and half the son/reincarnation of Piccolo Daimao. So it sort of works either way.

[MCDaveG]

So the lore gets more complicated in “supposed midquel” and I love it (lot of contradicting things unless resolved and then they drop shot of Kaioshin from Universe 10). I have to watch it as a separate series tho.

Hybis… damn man, I kinda like the guy, he’s on edge.
Majin Kuu is mischievous nutjob.

I really enjoyed the episode and can’t wait to see it all played out

[Thani]

So the lore gets more complicated in “supposed midquel” and I love it (lot of contradicting things unless resolved and then they drop shot of Kaioshin from Universe 10).

Not just Gowasu, they dropped a shot of all the Kaioshin from Super!

[Galan007]

So did Rymus also create Zen-Oh and GP when he whipped up the multiverse?

[FinalForumPodcast]

The lore stuff here, as someone who doesn't really care about lore or lore discussions or canon, I could kinda take or leave. If you're into it, cool, and I think it can be fun to try to unspool and piece all this together as a thought exercise, it's just not for me.

The character work stuff...I think is aces. How Toriyama is it to build up a character (Kuu) and draw a direct line from him to a super strong warrior, and then have him be a doof who loses his first battle? Delightful.
Hybis being the king of dry wit and humor is the highlight of the show for me.

Neva is going to turn out to be sort of like, the manipulative force for good, I think. That lingering shot of him at the end of this trying to make him seem like a possibly antagonistic presence...I think we're gonna ultimately reveal that he went along with Goma's initial plan and everything specifically to make sure that Goku and his friends came to the demon world, to defeat the evil people who have been ruling for so long, and return the Demon Realm to its former glory days of freedom.

Certainly an uptick episode from 9, in my opinion. Which was the weakest one of the show for me, this one felt like it was doing things, and had some great character moments, and felt propulsive in some ways for the actual narrative. Continuing to hope the show makes it all worthwhile in the end, but the journey has overall been a fun enough time to keep me firmly on board.

[Majin Buu]

So did Rymus also create Zen-Oh and GP when he whipped up the multiverse?

On the Rymus/Zeno speculation: My personal theory is that Zeno is a successor that's either Rymus' offspring, distant descendent, or reincarnation.

[Hugo Boss]

My take is that Rymus represents the origin of all things, while Zeno symbolizes the ultimate power left to oversee the multiverse. This alpha and omega setup provides a layered connection between Daima and Super cosmologies, shaping the balance between creation and destruction.