Dragon Ball Daima Strength Discussion Thread

[Almighty Majin]

My personal power rankings so far:

Spoiler:

Tamagami #1
SSJ3 Goku | Tamagami #2
Kraken
SSJ2 Goku | SSJ2 Vegeta | Tamagami #3
Majin Kuu
SSJ Goku | SSJ Vegeta | Piccolo (Full Power)
Gomah
Glorio
Nahare | Degesu | Dr. Arinsu
Marba
Base Goku | Base Vegeta | Weighted Piccolo
King Kadan's General
Gendarmerie Soldiers
Werewolf & Bird Guy
Neva
Demon World Thugs
Panzy

[Yuji]

My personal power rankings so far:

Spoiler:

Tamagami #1
SSJ3 Goku | Tamagami #2
Kraken
SSJ2 Goku | SSJ2 Vegeta | Tamagami #3
Majin Kuu
SSJ Goku | SSJ Vegeta | Piccolo (Full Power)
Gomah
Glorio
Nahare | Degesu | Dr. Arinsu
Marba
Base Goku | Base Vegeta | Weighted Piccolo
King Kadan's General
Gendarmerie Soldiers
Werewolf & Bird Guy
Neva
Demon World Thugs
Panzy

Where would you slot in Namek Freeza and Cell and Boo's other forms for reference?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So what’s the consensus on Goku vs Glorio? Just Toei giving base forms a show as usual? It looks close, but Goku doesn’t truly win the fight until he goes SSJ.

[Yuji]

So what’s the consensus on Goku vs Glorio? Just Toei giving base forms a show as usual? It looks close, but Goku doesn’t truly win the fight until he goes SSJ.

If Glorio is stronger than Shin, then I don't see how Glorio can be weaker than base Goku. Shin was portrayed as being able to damage SS tier beings and even Kibito was implied to be on the base Saiyans tier.

Demons seem to get a battle power boost when they use magic, however.

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t think this is necessarily a case of Toei overrating Goku’s base form since there is a contextual explanation to why Goku thought he could take on Glorio without fighting seriously. As with Dabra and Boo, Goku doesn’t know how or can’t properly gauge an opponent that uses magic, so it’s easy for him to underestimate majins’ true potential by using only ki sensing as his tool for assessment.

[ZombieVito]

So what’s the consensus on Goku vs Glorio? Just Toei giving base forms a show as usual? It looks close, but Goku doesn’t truly win the fight until he goes SSJ.

It's either that or Shin really got affected by the wish and became weaker than base Goku.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don’t think this is necessarily a case of Toei overrating Goku’s base form since there is a contextual explanation to why Goku thought he could take on Glorio without fighting seriously. As with Dabra and Boo, Goku doesn’t know how or can’t properly gauge an opponent that uses magic, so it’s easy for him to underestimate majins’ true potential by using only ki sensing as his tool for assessment.

But Goku says he suspects Glorio > Kaioshin even before they fight.

If Glorio is stronger than Shin, then I don't see how Glorio can be weaker than base Goku. Shin was portrayed as being able to damage SS tier beings and even Kibito was implied to be on the base Saiyans tier.

Demons seem to get a battle power boost when they use magic, however.

What SSJ tier folk did Shin damage? I don’t remember him fighting in Daima.

[Yuji]

I don’t think this is necessarily a case of Toei overrating Goku’s base form since there is a contextual explanation to why Goku thought he could take on Glorio without fighting seriously. As with Dabra and Boo, Goku doesn’t know how or can’t properly gauge an opponent that uses magic, so it’s easy for him to underestimate majins’ true potential by using only ki sensing as his tool for assessment.

But Goku says he suspects Glorio > Kaioshin even before they fight.

If Glorio is stronger than Shin, then I don't see how Glorio can be weaker than base Goku. Shin was portrayed as being able to damage SS tier beings and even Kibito was implied to be on the base Saiyans tier.

Demons seem to get a battle power boost when they use magic, however.

What SSJ tier folk did Shin damage? I don’t remember him fighting in Daima.

Shin held down SS2 Gohan and Dabra in the future and knocked Boo away. I don't see a base Saiyan capable of that.

[Almighty Majin]

Where would you slot in Namek Freeza and Cell and Boo's other forms for reference?

Namek Freeza is stronger than the base Saiyans, but weaker than the 3 Glinds. Marba is above Babidi and Bibidi. Whether or not Freeza is above the magicians is up to you. I personally think that they have the magical prowess to defeat him despite being massively weaker in terms of raw strength and Ki.

Cell at his peak is above SSJ Goku and Vegeta (and Piccolo), but I have him below any of the Tamagamis and below Majin Kuu. We don't quite know much about Majin Kuu's power except that he could not do anything against Tamagami #1. He could be weaker than all Tamagamis or just weaker than #1. To be safe I say he is weaker than all of them, but he should not be too far from #3 in this case.

Good Buu and Evil Buu are below SSJ3 Goku and consequentially below Tamagami #2 (if he is indeed SSJ3 level, which I am predicting for now). SSJ3 Goku, Kid Buu, and Tamagami #2 would then be relative to each other.

It is likely that when Kid Buu rampaged through the Demon Realm that either: 1) the Tamagamis did not exist yet or 2) they only fight when challenged for the Dragon Ball which Bibidi did not attempt to do using Buu.

Tamagami #1 will definitely require teamwork to defeat, unless it is NECESSARY that it be a 1v1 match. If that turns out to be the case, then a fusion may be required to fight Tamagami #1. Depending on how strong Tamagami #1 is, he could be above Super Buu. Alternatively, all 3 Tamagamis are below Kid Buu and #1 is pretty much on par.

Tamagami power analysis:

Spoiler:

Low-ball:
#3 = Cell
#2 = Good Buu
#1 = Kid Buu

High-ball:
#3 = SSJ2
#2 = SSJ3
#1 = Fusion level threat

Additional notes:
Neva is the strongest Namekian elder. He is above the likes of Kami, Dende, Moori, and Monaito. He is stronger than King Piccolo.
I want to say that the Gendarmerie are relative to the average Freeza Soldier (maybe the ones with blasters).
Not sure how strong King Kadan's army actually is since enough of them ganging up on Goku managed to make him briefly flash SSJ so they must have some decent amount of strength to them. Maybe these guys are also relative to Freeza's army? Their general (the lady with the trumpet) looks really cool and while we have not seen her fight, she is clearly Kadan's strongest soldier. I want to say she is bare minimum Raditz level, but she could be much stronger than that especially if you think that Kadan's average soldier is much stronger than they look.

[ZombieVito]

Where would you slot in Namek Freeza and Cell and Boo's other forms for reference?

Namek Freeza is stronger than the base Saiyans, but weaker than the 3 Glinds. Marba is above Babidi and Bibidi. Whether or not Freeza is above the magicians is up to you. I personally think that they have the magical prowess to defeat him despite being massively weaker in terms of raw strength and Ki.

Cell at his peak is above SSJ Goku and Vegeta (and Piccolo), but I have him below any of the Tamagamis and below Majin Kuu. We don't quite know much about Majin Kuu's power except that he could not do anything against Tamagami #1. He could be weaker than all Tamagamis or just weaker than #1. To be safe I say he is weaker than all of them, but he should not be too far from #3 in this case.

Good Buu and Evil Buu are below SSJ3 Goku and consequentially below Tamagami #2 (if he is indeed SSJ3 level, which I am predicting for now). SSJ3 Goku, Kid Buu, and Tamagami #2 would then be relative to each other.

It is likely that when Kid Buu rampaged through the Demon Realm that either: 1) the Tamagamis did not exist yet or 2) they only fight when challenged for the Dragon Ball which Bibidi did not attempt to do using Buu.

Tamagami #1 will definitely require teamwork to defeat, unless it is NECESSARY that it be a 1v1 match. If that turns out to be the case, then a fusion may be required to fight Tamagami #1. Depending on how strong Tamagami #1 is, he could be above Super Buu. Alternatively, all 3 Tamagamis are below Kid Buu and #1 is pretty much on par.

Tamagami power analysis:

Spoiler:

Low-ball:
#3 = Cell
#2 = Good Buu
#1 = Kid Buu

High-ball:
#3 = SSJ2
#2 = SSJ3
#1 = Fusion level threat

Additional notes:
Neva is the strongest Namekian elder. He is above the likes of Kami, Dende, Moori, and Monaito. He is stronger than King Piccolo.
I want to say that the Gendarmerie are relative to the average Freeza Soldier (maybe the ones with blasters).
Not sure how strong King Kadan's army actually is since enough of them ganging up on Goku managed to make him briefly flash SSJ so they must have some decent amount of strength to them. Maybe these guys are also relative to Freeza's army? Their general (the lady with the trumpet) looks really cool and while we have not seen her fight, she is clearly Kadan's strongest soldier. I want to say she is bare minimum Raditz level, but she could be much stronger than that especially if you think that Kadan's average soldier is much stronger than they look.

My only problem with this is that Piccolo can't be that high in the Super Saiyan tier.

He still needs to be weaker than a rusty Super Saiyan Gohan 4 years later.

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t think this is necessarily a case of Toei overrating Goku’s base form since there is a contextual explanation to why Goku thought he could take on Glorio without fighting seriously. As with Dabra and Boo, Goku doesn’t know how or can’t properly gauge an opponent that uses magic, so it’s easy for him to underestimate majins’ true potential by using only ki sensing as his tool for assessment.

But Goku says he suspects Glorio > Kaioshin even before they fight.

That’s because Glorio probably has battle power greater than Nahare, which is what Goku can sense. Going purely by this metric Base Goku is stronger than both, but he is outmatched by them when magic is involved.

[dragonball0900]

I think the whole Base Goku vs Glorio fight isn't really the same as other Toei scenes of Base Saiyans doing better than usual, the reason is because unlike those, Base Goku's showings here are backed up with statements, such as Goku saying he will use one hand, Shin wanting Goku to fight seriously to see Glorio's full strength, etc.

[Mystic-han]

So how strong do you think Bulma currently is? She was fine walking around in a child body in the so called "thick Heavy atmosphere" of the demon realm which apparently limit Goku flight

[Hugo Boss]

So how strong do you think Bulma currently is? She was fine walking around in a child body in the so called "thick Heavy atmosphere" of the demon realm which apparently limit Goku flight

Apparently walking doesn’t have any significant impact on how much energy they spend there. So, she should be as strong as a healthy young lady.

[Almighty Majin]

My only problem with this is that Piccolo can't be that high in the Super Saiyan tier.

He still needs to be weaker than a rusty Super Saiyan Gohan 4 years later.

RoF Gohan is rusty post-Z-Sword training Gohan so I think he is still stronger than SSJ Goku and Vegeta in terms of raw strength at this point, but his fighting instincts are dulled and he cannot maintain SSJ for long. The statement by Future Trunks in the Black arc about Gohan is more likely about his demeanor rather than his actual power imo. Also Gohan was already training again by that point (sparring with Piccolo in the anime and using the Gravity Room in the manga).

[ZombieVito]

My only problem with this is that Piccolo can't be that high in the Super Saiyan tier.

He still needs to be weaker than a rusty Super Saiyan Gohan 4 years later.

RoF Gohan is rusty post-Z-Sword training Gohan so I think he is still stronger than SSJ Goku and Vegeta in terms of raw strength at this point, but his fighting instincts are dulled and he cannot maintain SSJ for long. The statement by Future Trunks in the Black arc about Gohan is more likely about his demeanor rather than his actual power imo. Also Gohan was already training again by that point (sparring with Piccolo in the anime and using the Gravity Room in the manga).

Perhaps.

If Piccolo is relative to Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta in Daima then that's a way to have it make sense. Make post Z Sword Gohan a lot stronger than them.

[Saiyan007]

would love to see how people still think Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza after this episode

[Yuji]

would love to see how people still think Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza after this episode

What did this episode prove? Vegeta did poorly in base.

[LightBing]

would love to see how people still think Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza after this episode

Could you elaborate how this episode leans in that direction?

All I saw was Vegeta getting his ass handed to him, ultimately ending with a cliffhanger where he might be defeated.

Goku also started in Base against Tamagami 3 and had to go SSJ2.
It's clear that a steady progression, is the theme of fights in Daima. Or else both Tamagamis would have immediately ended the fight, since they are obviously holding back.

[Almighty Majin]

It is pretty clear that both Goku and Tamagami #3 were warming up and then progressively reached their full power by the end where #3 could hold off and deflect a full power Kamehameha from SSJ2 Goku and then defeated when his guard was down from deflecting said Kamehameha.