Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 11 - Official Discussion Thread

[theherodjl]

Very cool concept with the varying levels of Majin Boo in these new characters. Apparently, Majin Koo is more Saibaman than 'Boo', and Majin Doo is more 'Boo' than Saibaman; establishing two brothers that are like an 'easy' & 'medium' to Majin Boo's 'hard'. I guess that would reflect in their strength being noticeably less than how strong Boo was, with Koo being a pushover to Tamagami #1, while Doo seems to be making it put forth some effort to win.
On another note, maybe we'll find out if the additional Glind/Kaioshin in U7 will be refugees from the demon realm, or even were some of the Kaioshin from the erased universes by Zeno?

[SHINOBI-03]

I like how just being slightly chubby is enough to make Duu a better design than his older brother...

Not just looking closer to Boo but also has better color arrangement than Kuu's.

[sangofe]

I laughed so much during the interaction between Majin Kuu and Majin Duu. Also, the comment from the Tamagami that Vegeta should go suck milk from boobs was priceless. Very interesting story development and perfect pacing. Nice buildup, even though I would have liked to get more from the fights I can't complain. Lots of intersting in this episode. And that N'cha. Wow, I'm loving Dragon Ball Daima so much. I am really savoring this series. It's a pity the Great Toriyama-sensei isn't with us anymore because who else can strike this perfect balance between humor, and action in Dragon Ball? I am not sure anyone can.

Good:
- Neva singing Makafushigi Adventure.
- Neva only pretending to be senile... I wonder if he'll turn out to be a traitor down the road. Good drama.

Bad:
- "That stupid Kakarot and that bad habit of his of not going all-out from the beginning. Let me repeat his mistakes while pretending I'm so much better!"
- If the next episode is to be believed, Vegeta just got defeated by a random giant sea monster... Without even going Super Saiyan... Daima stands for Goku Time!

Misc:
- I guess these Majins Xuu's are just the Gotenks of Daima. How many more of them until we get the real one? Are they even going to amount to anything?

Did you ever consider that this "giant monster" might be the case for Majin Buu and might not be weak? Look closely at what he looks like and what Majin Boo looks like.

[Ronin]

They should've made it where you need to speak an ancient dialect of Namekian that only Neva knows. Call it something like Old/Ancient/Original Namekian that's unrecognizable from the modern language. It's common for languages to evolve over time, so that could work.

Also, I just remembered (this could be anime filler, can't remember) that Namek was originally a lush paradise and that they were in the process of bringing back all the old flora that used to be there. If this is true, then why does the Namek in the Demon Realm look like the one in the mortal realm/universe 7 (or whatever you wanna call it)?

[FiReFTW]

They just always have to screw Vegeta huh? Thats what he is for it seems.

Facing challenges is good. Vegeta is facing a challenge and will likely overcome that challenge.

Thats true but knowing the track record so far I have a strong feeling they will do him dirty.

[goku the krump dancer]

They just always have to screw Vegeta huh? Thats what he is for it seems.

Facing challenges is good. Vegeta is facing a challenge and will likely overcome that challenge.

Thats true but knowing the track record so far I have a strong feeling they will do him dirty.

If Daima was a movie and not a series I’d say you’d have a 80/20 chance of being right but looking back at Z and Super Vegeta definitely has more than his fair share of W’s, so I wouldn’t be too concerned.

[Majin Buu]

Loved this episode.

So Neva isn't malevolent or senile. He's a neutral arbiter of sorts that pretends to be senile when it's convenient for him. Interesting. Though he's still kinda odd. He's established to not actually be senile, but while he was expositing about the Demon Realm's Dragon Balls on the ship, he noticeably wasn't looking at the people he was speaking too. He might not be senile, but he does come off like he has one foot in his own head. He seems to be under the assumption that the Nameks will return to the Demon Realm someday, citing keeping Original Old Namek safe for them as one of the reasons he stayed behind when they left. We know he's not senile so he either knows something we don't or that's just wishful thinking on his part since he did admit to sometimes feeling lonely living by himself. He also says he stayed behind because he likes it there. That makes sense. It's his home, he's attached to it.

Neva did indeed know Piccolo's parent and is a legend among their people. Those are cool details. That makes it fitting for Piccolo to be the one interrogating him. Neva noting that Piccolo's name sounds strange to him was interesting, he's speaking to Piccolo's status as a Namek that grew up outside of Namekian culture. I loved how Panzy pointed out that as the creator of the Tamagamis Neva could have defeated the Daimao himself only for Neva to state that Nameks can't use their powers for conflict, with everyone else annoyingly looking at Piccolo in response as if to say "that sounds familiar". It's a funny jab at Kami's tendency to be useless in ending conflicts despite having the power to do so because of some arbitrary rule. Piccolo has grounds for his defensive response.

I wasn't expecting Neva to join them as a party member, but I like it. Turns out you need to speak Namekian to use the original Demon Realm Dragon Balls just like the Namekian Dragon Balls, making his presence necessary for the success of Goku and Co's mission. It's interesting that the speaking Namek requirement for Dragon Ball usage went away once Dragon Balls started being made by a Namekian that didn't speak the language. That speaks (pun not intended) to another detail that got brought up: Piccolo not being able to speak Namekian due to living on Earth for too long, another aspect that has real world parallels. He can't speak the language of his people because he only lived amongst them as a young child a long time ago.

We now have a second new artificial majin for Arinsu: Majin Duu. I love him. He's far more Buu-like in appearance, owing to having been made with far more Buu essence than Kuu, and more directly Buu-like in personality for the same reason: Namely in being simple-minded, randomly weird, and having a taste for candy. He's like an amalgamation of Fat Buu and Kid Buu. I also love that he's being paired up with Kuu. These Buu-spawn brothers make such a fun duo. Duu seems to have inherited Buu's strength as well, considering he's giving Tamagami Number One a harder fight than Kuu did. Though he seems to be learning how to fight as he fights, considering he accidentally shot himself in the face with a ki blast, providing a funny visual gag. It's another aspect he inherited from Buu.

Speaking of Kuu, it was cute seeing him cheer on Duu. Also, Kuu wasn't kidding when he said he was fast, considering it only took like five seconds for him to go get some chocolate for Duu. That was great. Him looking more like his Saibaiman-base in comparison to Duu's more Buu-like appearance makes sense now considering Marba held back on the Buu essence when making him, presumably to make him more controllable. Since Duu is more like Buu, this implies that he'll be less controllable like Buu. I like how these two are basically a recycling of the Fat Buu/Skinny Buu dynamic but being played for comedy instead of drama. I wonder if they're going to combine at some point, maybe by Duu absorbing Kuu?

We've started the gang's second boss fight, with Vegeta taking on Tamagami Number Two. Interesting that it's being played alongside the second boss fight for Arinsu's crew (between Kuu, Duu, and Glorio, Arinsu's got her own faction going on) with Tamagami Number One as well. Seems like we're headed for an eventual clash between the two parties, especially if Duu defeats Tamagami One. I liked how Tamagami Number Two shit talked Vegeta when Vegeta challenged him, he was all like "Go home to your momma's teat boy", only taking him seriously as an opponent when he saw Neva nearby giving him the "no, this is real" look. Number Two comes off as arrogant in contrast to Number Three's boisterous demeanor. Looks like Vegeta is in a pinch with the Kraken. He'll probably be fine, though the next episode preview indicates that Goku might lend a hand with the Kraken.

Great episode.

[GhostEmperorX]

Do we have the "KooDoo brothers" as a possible duo now? Don't even know if there's a link between the names other than rhyme. Guess we'll see?

Props to the Makafushigi Adventure ref, didn't see that one coming. And between "N'cha!" and Koo doing the Arale Run™, the Dr. Slump callbacks were so well-done (but alas, we probably won't be getting any more of those after this...)

And we get the classic "You had your fun, now it's my turn" approach to battle gauntlets (if we can call it that) with the Saiyans. Never change, Vegeta.

Misc comments: That new OP variation when Neva was explaining why the Tamagami came to be is one of the best yet. It was also cool how they opted for silence (like in the classic series) when Vegeta began to fight Tamagami #2.

[Cold Skin]

Could the fact that Piccolo doesn't speak Namek be to set a plot point?
If the Dragon Balls here were created by Nameks - I don't remember if that's the case -, they could require the language to speak the wishes.
And if Neva is the only one speaking it in the group, could he want to make a wish - hence why he wants to tag along with the group that started successfully gathering them - and actually not translate the wish given by our heroes but make his own wish?

Is it why they clearly give the info that Piccolo doesn't understand that language anymore, to justify that he won't be able to intervene and say "hey, wait, he's not saying the wish we asked for!" and create a twist when the heroes are supposed to have their wish granted?

[Lord Beerus]

The antics of Majin Kuu and Majin Duu were the major highlight of the episode. Majin Duu in particular was very entertaining.

The pace of the show has dramatically increased with the introduction of both of the other Tamagami's, and the both them being in fights simultaneously with the central cast, which makes me think this show is not going past 20 episodes with how quickly the narrative is progressing.

The episode itself was serviceable with a pretty good cliffhanger.

[JulieYBM]

God, Yashima's boards are so boring. I'm sure that him storyboarding so many episodes helped with the production schedule, but these dialogue scenes wind up having such boring layouts. I hope that Episode #12 is a lot more energetically directed.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Could the fact that Piccolo doesn't speak Namek be to set a plot point?
If the Dragon Balls here were created by Nameks - I don't remember if that's the case -, they could require the language to speak the wishes.
And if Neva is the only one speaking it in the group, could he want to make a wish - hence why he wants to tag along with the group that started successfully gathering them - and actually not translate the wish given by our heroes but make his own wish?

Is it why they clearly give the info that Piccolo doesn't understand that language anymore, to justify that he won't be able to intervene and say "hey, wait, he's not saying the wish we asked for!" and create a twist when the heroes are supposed to have their wish granted?

Now THAT would be a cool way to put a spin on this seeming inconsistency, by making it so that Piccolo actually can understand it even if he can't speak it anymore.

Plenty of people never lose their understanding even if they do grow to stop using it to speak.

[kemuri07]

Piccolo not knowing Namekian is explainable by what he says right after when he mentions he's been on Earth for a long time. He last spoke it decades prior, so even in the worst case scenario, it's the only oversight and a pretty minor one at that. Trivial stuff like Goku not teleporting or constantly flying around makes sense when you think about it for more than two seconds; he and the others still haven't fully adjusted to their bodies, as was implied again just last episode. Just because Goku can do these things doesn't mean he can (or should!) use these things to the same capacity as a kid, especially when teleportation was already noted to be somewhat taxing in the original series. Another non-issue with very little bearing on the narrative.

Even if you take that idiotic explanation of him being on Earth long enough to forget (Even though he spoke it perfectly fine on the 23rd TB), he still fused with Nail. He should know the language.

It's a legit plothole.

No it's not? My guy, the 23rd Budokai happens, what, close to 20 years ago in this timeline. It's actually pretty reasonable that Piccolo would forget because that's how that happens in the real world. If you're not actively using the language it does go away with time.

Yeah I'm all with the this is a "plot discrepancy" that's only an issue if you choose to make it an issue. But that's more on you than the actual show.


Put me down as someone who really enjoyed this episode. The pace is speeding up and I thought the Vegeta fight crosscutting with the Majin Duu fight was well done.

[AliTheZombie13]

No it's not? My guy, the 23rd Budokai happens, what, close to 20 years ago in this timeline. It's actually pretty reasonable that Piccolo would forget because that's how that happens in the real world. If you're not actively using the language it does go away with time.

Yeah I'm all with the this is a "plot discrepancy" that's only an issue if you choose to make it an issue. But that's more on you than the actual show.

So, Piccolo/Kami/whatever can live on Earth for, what, a thousand years, despite having arrived as a child and having little recollection of his life as an alien, and not forget the language, and speak it fluently during a tournament.
Neva can live for millions of years without any Namekian around on the Demon Realm and not forget the language.
Dende can live on Earth for roughly the same time as Piccolo/Kami and not forget the language.
But the combination of Piccolo/Kami/Nail somehow forgot it?

Let's be real here, the show needed a reason to bring Neva on board, and decided to sacrifice the lore for it.
That, or Toriyama forgot.

[nato25]

No it's not? My guy, the 23rd Budokai happens, what, close to 20 years ago in this timeline. It's actually pretty reasonable that Piccolo would forget because that's how that happens in the real world. If you're not actively using the language it does go away with time.

Yeah I'm all with the this is a "plot discrepancy" that's only an issue if you choose to make it an issue. But that's more on you than the actual show.

So, Piccolo/Kami/whatever can live on Earth for, what, a thousand years, despite having arrived as a child and having little recollection of his life as an alien, and not forget the language, and speak it fluently during a tournament.
Neva can live for millions of years without any Namekian around on the Demon Realm and not forget the language.
Dende can live on Earth for roughly the same time as Piccolo/Kami and not forget the language.
But the combination of Piccolo/Kami/Nail somehow forgot it?

Let's be real here, the show needed a reason to bring Neva on board, and decided to sacrifice the lore for it.
That, or Toriyama forgot.

Yeah the only way this doesn't piss the fans off is if Piccolo is just lying about all this to keep Neva close and study his true intentions. With his whole senile routine, it would be amazing writing if Piccolo was actually deceiving Neva and it might all come into play when the wish is being granted (as we now know it's literally going to be Piccolo or Neva actually making the wish).

I'll remain hopefully optimistic until proven otherwise. If not, I can't fathom that they would remember piccolos fathers name was Katatz (that was mentioned in like one episode?) but then make an error like this.

[Piramid89]

Judging by the symbols, Piccolo, Kami, Mr. Popo and Dende speak a different dialect lol

[Koitsukai]

Loving this.
I'm surprised they noticed Neva approaching them, I thought they had already taken off. Neva singing DB's 1st opening... fantastic, he won me over already.
I also think Neva has his own agenda, to screw them over when it's time to wish in namekian. I pressume to get his people back to their birthplace now that he has created a safe environment for their DBs.
There is something bittersweet in his tale, he's protecting the place, he truly believes his people are getting back home after all those years. Similar to what Katatsu's son clinged onto in Yunzabit.
He has no idea his kind have been happy little campers outside of the daimakai for centuries. Not even after Freeza they thought about coming back. I'm a little saddened by this fact.

Majin Duu is amazing, Kuu as well, I was not expecting the fraternal dynamics. Both are silly, I bet Duu will show a more serious side soon but it's a given they'll end up fusing or something. Even if Kuu was a red herring, there's no point in having him around if you don't use him to power up Duu and get an even better majin.
T-1 seemed overwhelmed, but if the next episode is called True Power or something, I'm guessing he has an ace up his sleeve. Surely, he will fall, not only the kamis aren't evil, the crew is befriending Neva (implied to be respected by the kamis) who has potential to be redeemable and an ally.

Vegeta clearly is a step or two behind Goku in terms of acclimatization, to win this one he would have to catch up immediately, I doubt T-2 is weaker than T-3.

I agree there is no hole in this current plot just because a character is not able to do something they did decades ago. The plot can go just fine even if it's a continuity error, it is just to have Neva join the group, it's not causing any major damage.
Toriyama clearly forgot about it, otherwise the excuse would've been "but do you speak ancient namekian?" Unless Piccoro is fishing here.
There are plenty of possible explanations and even if they aren't perfect, it's not a big deal.
- Kami and Jr. were speaking a rudimentary dialect instead of actual namekian, just like some people think they speak a language but they don't really speak it. He was, after all, talking to himself, or to a part of himself.

- Piccolo understands some of it but cannot speak it properly. Piccolo did not speak namekian to Nail, Dende, or even to the namekians on Earth. Only to himself.

- Piccolo is working an angle, doesn't trust Neva and wants to see what he is up to.

- Piccolo is a knowledgeable person and knows language is constantly evolving thus knowing for sure he lacks the skills to communicate in an ancient tongue.

- Namekian assimilation was never explained in detail, who said they learn every skill the other guy had? what if it's just a power up with a vague understanding of the other guy's experiences? Piccolo's mind might not be what DBZA envisioned.

[Majin Buu]

- Namekian assimilation was never explained in detail, who said they learn every skill the other guy had? what if it's just a power up with a vague understanding of the other guy's experiences? Piccolo's mind might not be what DBZA envisioned.

Lately I've been thinking that what some say about Piccolo post-rejoining with Kami is true: Piccolo was the one that ceased to exist as a character and it's actually just Kami in there now using Piccolo's form, which would actually make sense considering Kami was the Nameless Namekian's persona. If that is the case, then Nail likely isn't in there either and was in fact just a power up.

(That, or Piccolo had chilled out enough to the point that he just became indistinguishable from Kami in personality, which would also make sense as Piccolo was the cast-off evil version of Kami so Piccolo without the evil would effectively just be another Kami.)

[Ronin]

If Neva has ulterior motives of getting his own wish with the dragon balls, why can't he just use them anyway? He made the them and the Tamagamis. He might have ulterior motives, but I don't think it involves that. I'd be surprised and wouldn't make sense to me, if so.

[ZombieVito]

No it's not? My guy, the 23rd Budokai happens, what, close to 20 years ago in this timeline. It's actually pretty reasonable that Piccolo would forget because that's how that happens in the real world. If you're not actively using the language it does go away with time.

Yeah I'm all with the this is a "plot discrepancy" that's only an issue if you choose to make it an issue. But that's more on you than the actual show.

So, Piccolo/Kami/whatever can live on Earth for, what, a thousand years, despite having arrived as a child and having little recollection of his life as an alien, and not forget the language, and speak it fluently during a tournament.
Neva can live for millions of years without any Namekian around on the Demon Realm and not forget the language.
Dende can live on Earth for roughly the same time as Piccolo/Kami and not forget the language.
But the combination of Piccolo/Kami/Nail somehow forgot it?

Let's be real here, the show needed a reason to bring Neva on board, and decided to sacrifice the lore for it.
That, or Toriyama forgot.

Yeah, all of this.

God is hundreds of years old and had no problem speaking it during the 23th TB.

It's a plot hole and no amount of excuses will change that.