"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Yuji]

Perhaps a minor issue but I have no idea how they'd handle Goku's super strong base form in RF considering he never displays that kind of power in the Super manga again. I guess Toyotaro could just draw Goku fighting Freeza in SS or SSG, but that would perhaps deviate too much from the movie since the narrative indication at the time was that Goku and Vegeta were just that much stronger than everyone else.

RF is incoherent on this point with how the rest of Super plays out, so maybe it's best to just leave it to the imagination.

[Hugo Boss]

Perhaps a minor issue but I have no idea how they'd handle Goku's super strong base form in RF considering he never displays that kind of power in the Super manga again. I guess Toyotaro could just draw Goku fighting Freeza in SS or SSG, but that would perhaps deviate too much from the movie since the narrative indication at the time was that Goku and Vegeta were just that much stronger than everyone else.

RF is incoherent on this point with how the rest of Super plays out, so maybe it's best to just leave it to the imagination.

Or just skip that portion of their fight entirely. At least in the promo manga, Toyotaro depicted Goku as having the power of SSGod in his base form when fighting Whis.

[Mr Baggins]

...Realistically I doubt any of that will happen, but it would be nice just from the perspective of me wanting the manga to stand on its own.

Continuity quibbles aside, my perspective is that the manga already stands on its own as a companion piece to Toriyama's movies. That's how I've always interpreted it, in any case. Battle of Gods is the only material covered that feels abridged, but even then, I'd argue that was meant to function more as a prologue to Super's story arcs than a complete story arc in and of itself. When DBS Broly released, there was even commentary somewhere by Toyotaro urging people to watch the movie to keep up.

With that said, Toyotaro has expressed interest in adapting the films he didn't get to cover before. I suspect a lot of this comes down to Shueisha's vision for the series not necessarily aligning with his own. Not sure how Toriyama felt about that, though he probably would have just encouraged Toyotaro to do his thing.

[JulieYBM]

If memory serves, Shaman King did expanded and additional chapters for its Kanzenban release, so I don't see why Toyo-tarou can't do that eventually.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

Perhaps a minor issue but I have no idea how they'd handle Goku's super strong base form in RF considering he never displays that kind of power in the Super manga again. I guess Toyotaro could just draw Goku fighting Freeza in SS or SSG, but that would perhaps deviate too much from the movie since the narrative indication at the time was that Goku and Vegeta were just that much stronger than everyone else.

RF is incoherent on this point with how the rest of Super plays out, so maybe it's best to just leave it to the imagination.

I really liked the idea that BoG set up with the God ki increasing their base power to the point where it acts as a new base form for Goku and Vegeta. Not at full power so there's still a reason to use Super Saiyan God/Blue, but enough to make Super Saiyan 2 & 3 irrelevant so we had a workaround for the "too many transformations" complain. Which if I recall correctly the director of BoG said was his plan in a post release interview, to just use Super Saiyan 1 & God moving forward. Which I would have been fine with since Super Saiyan 2 while cool looking with the lightning aura, never really had anything visually or technique/power wise to differentiate it from 1 (especially after Gohan got his Boo saga haircut, and Vegeta has basically no visual changes when his hair changes color due to its shape). Super Saiyan 3 was a little more interesting visually being such a departure, and provided narrative conflict with being such a fast ki drain. But BoG and GT both made it irrelevant with new "final forms" so to speak.

[JulieYBM]

I really like the idea of folding those older forms into base, so that structurally, there's only one transformation per battle—two if a new form is achieved. I think that it makes more sense that way, although Dragon Ball Super: Broli handled the multiple transformations well by having Broli constantly evolve and making God and Blue have different attributes.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

I really like the idea of folding those older forms into base, so that structurally, there's only one transformation per battle—two if a new form is achieved. I think that it makes more sense that way, although Dragon Ball Super: Broli handled the multiple transformations well by having Broli constantly evolve and making God and Blue have different attributes.

I think Super Broli handled it the best too. For Goku and Vegeta SSB finally had a somewhat different fighting style, SSG had a style similar to Battle of Gods, but more fluid, and you can't rid of Super Saiyan 1 no matter what because of its status being too iconic. If all of Super had handled transformations like the Broli movie I think that I would have made it feel less redundant.

[Almighty Majin]

It is a shame that the anime and manga continue to use SSJ2 and 3 for the sake of fanservice despite Toriyama insisting that those forms are no longer relevant post-BoG and established the transformation chain as SSJ-God-Blue in Broly. I like to think that perhaps the boosts provided by SSJ2 and 3 were rolled into base form so that SSJ is the only required regular SSJ form.

That aside... I am beginning to think that Daima will be implemented into how Black Freeza will be defeated. So Daima has not ended yet, but I am going to predict that by the end, Kadan will be placed as the new benevolent supreme king of the Demon Realm and he will have ownership of the Evil Eye. My guess is that perhaps Goku will get the idea to borrow the Evil Eye from Kadan as a last resort so he can use it against Freeza and then give it back by the end of the arc. Unless the Evil Eye corrupts the user somehow (it IS the Evil Eye after all...) it could be a viable option. Maybe Goku will use it himself in the final battle of Daima potentially? Idk I am just coming up with some crazy unlikely ideas.

[TobyS]

Yeah, how dare they try to round out a volume about Super Hero with a bonus chapter related to Super Hero???

The DBS manga retelling a movie we already saw was one of the worst creative decisions in the history of the franchise.

There shouldn't be any Super Hero shit to "round out" because it never should have existed in the first place. By all means it should've had a recap chapter at most if they wanted to tie it together with Goten and Trunks being heroes.

Not to mention the concept of the one-shot simply sounds shit, with Toyotarou at the helm it's likely to be mediocre at best if that boring Super Hero prequel story is anything to go by.

Toriyama's original script for DBS Broly was 3 hours long and included a fight between Kid Raditz and the other saiyans that had to be cut from the theatrical release. This is where a longer manga adaptation of Toriyama's script could've come in handy.

You say that but the other exact 50% of the fanbase bitches that the manga feels like an incomplete product without the rof and broly movies so.... Who do they listen to? You just lost out on your preference this time but it's hardly an objective mistake

[Basaku]

The clean break would make it easier to separate which the two eras, thiugh, so I can see that being the logic behind it.

I think Pokemon Special did the same when it switched artists and Berserk did, too.

Yes but this is probably the opposite of what they actually want. Clean break/separate eras in this instance means Toriyama's passing to the fanbase. Everyone knows fans will approach new DB material from a different perspective from now on, aka much less forgiving. Black Freeza arc/story ideas is likely the last thing Toriyama worked on, at the very least - it's the last piece of Super era Toei/Shueisha/Capsule will be able to market as "(co-)developed by original autor Akira Toriyama". And it won't even be much of a reach/lie/trick, as he was heavily involved in Granolah arc plotting afterall and obviously either developed BFreez himself or approved of him. So if there's to be a clean break it's gonna be the post-EOZ content with Super part 2 ending on BFreez and into EOZ

TBH, even if Tori didn't pass away I suspected for a long time Black Freeza would wrap up the Super era anyway, it's very fitting for the last arc

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

It is a shame that the anime and manga continue to use SSJ2 and 3 for the sake of fanservice despite Toriyama insisting that those forms are no longer relevant post-BoG and established the transformation chain as SSJ-God-Blue in Broly. I like to think that perhaps the boosts provided by SSJ2 and 3 were rolled into base form so that SSJ is the only required regular SSJ form.

I'm pretty sure that this was more or less the implication of the climax of Battle of Gods. That Goku's body absorbed the God ki, (or as Beerus put it: "absorbed that world into your body" and "even though you've returned to normal you haven't powered down all that much"), and pretty much made a weakened version of Super Saiyan God's power into Goku's new base form. (I pulled up how the movie quoted it just to be sure.) I think there's an article somewhere on this site from 2013 where Toriyama states that Super Saiyan 2 & 3 wouldn't have a place in the story anymore in favor of Super Saiyan 1.

[DBZ Macky]

I think there's an article somewhere on this site from 2013 where Toriyama states that Super Saiyan 2 & 3 wouldn't have a place in the story anymore in favor of Super Saiyan 1.

Yep, it's from here.

Goku endlessly keeps getting stronger, with Super Saiyan 3 in the manga and Super Saiyan 4 in the anime; does Super Saiyan keep getting limitlessly stronger too? Might we eventually see things such as a Super Saiyan 5…?!

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

Perhaps we misinterpreted it and Toriyama was foreshadowing Super Saiyan Blue? When I think about it, it makes perfect sense that Goku mastered the regular Super Saiyan and by extension, Super Saiyan Blue, which let him use Kaio-Ken on top of it (up to Kaio-Ken times 20!) in the Anime and a similar state in the Manga.

I absolutely believe no one working on the series actually thought about this but it's one of those things that just clicked for me in retrospect.

[Hugo Boss]

I absolutely believe no one working on the series actually thought about this but it's one of those things that just clicked for me in retrospect.

I agree that the original intent was to replace traditional Super Saiyan forms with Super Saiyan Blue, but I think this idea was thought through and explored in the Fake Monaka episode and in Copy Vegeta arc. For instance, Gotenks’ SS3 was highlighted as ineffective against Base Copy Vegeta, which underlines that mastering the base form and God-level energy is more efficient and powerful than relying upon transformations like SS3, that waste too much. This moment emphasized that the progression towards SS Blue made base form comparable, if not superior, to earlier transformations like SS3 or even SS God. However, as Super progressed, all the forms returned, for unknown reasons, but likely because variety of forms was a commercial demand.

[Omori]

We are certainly at an interesting point now.
I also feel like the one-shot might be also to get Vol. 24 out.
Is it because A) there's no chapter 104 in sight yet or B) to make a cut for future arcs without Toriyama involvement?
In March it will be one year after Toriyama's passing and maybe also the end of the Daima anime.

Personally, I'd like to see an arc resolving Black Frieza, Zalama and Yamoshi things and then reconnect it with the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai.
And then if the rumors about a new movie are true, it also depends on when that one takes place. Maybe Goku is training with Uub then already. Let's see what 2025 will bring.

[TheComicCurator]

Hello everyone!

I am wondering if anyone can provide the official original japanese scan for me of this panel, in DBS Chapter 65. Specifically looking for just this area of the page with Whis talking about Moro's fate and the whole Galaxy thing. This is for a video I am making on the subject.

The only copy I could find was from a powerscaler on reddit who posted the worst, blurriest image ever in the history of mankind. So, I can't even read it or have it translated properly for others. Hoping someone can just snapshot their manga page (if they have it) and send a copy of this panel to me here.

https://imgur.com/hKMcmXE

I'm interested in the legitimate translations from anyone who would be regarded as an expert, or just your opinions too if you want to toss your own translation in. Any help on that is very appreciated for the educational video I am posting about this chapter.

[VegettoEX]

Hello everyone!

I am wondering if anyone can provide the official original japanese scan for me of this panel, in DBS Chapter 65. Specifically looking for just this area of the page with Whis talking about Moro's fate and the whole Galaxy thing. This is for a video I am making on the subject.

The only copy I could find was from a powerscaler on reddit who posted the worst, blurriest image ever in the history of mankind. So, I can't even read it or have it translated properly for others. Hoping someone can just snapshot their manga page (if they have it) and send a copy of this panel to me here.

https://imgur.com/hKMcmXE

I'm interested in the legitimate translations from anyone who would be regarded as an expert, or just your opinions too if you want to toss your own translation in. Any help on that is very appreciated for the educational video I am posting about this chapter.

https://imgur.com/9fezBaC

Is there something in the official English translation that's not clear or otherwise up for debate here? I don't see any issues.

[TheComicCurator]

Hello everyone!

I am wondering if anyone can provide the official original japanese scan for me of this panel, in DBS Chapter 65. Specifically looking for just this area of the page with Whis talking about Moro's fate and the whole Galaxy thing. This is for a video I am making on the subject.

The only copy I could find was from a powerscaler on reddit who posted the worst, blurriest image ever in the history of mankind. So, I can't even read it or have it translated properly for others. Hoping someone can just snapshot their manga page (if they have it) and send a copy of this panel to me here.

https://imgur.com/hKMcmXE

I'm interested in the legitimate translations from anyone who would be regarded as an expert, or just your opinions too if you want to toss your own translation in. Any help on that is very appreciated for the educational video I am posting about this chapter.

https://imgur.com/9fezBaC

Is there something in the official English translation that's not clear or otherwise up for debate here? I don't see any issues.

Thank you so much for that high res snap! Was a nightmare to get a really nice quality of that panel, so I appreciate it.
There is a MASSIVE war on Youtube and Discord between DB fans on the real translation here.

One side says the panel says the Moro would potentially destroy the galaxy.

The others, claiming the original Japanese version says Moro will destroy ALL the Galaxies.

I want to cover the translation worries in a video, once I gather all the information I can.

[Omori]

Thank you so much for that high res snap! Was a nightmare to get a really nice quality of that panel, so I appreciate it.
There is a MASSIVE war on Youtube and Discord between DB fans on the real translation here.

One side says the panel says the Moro would potentially destroy the galaxy.

The others, claiming the original Japanese version says Moro will destroy ALL the Galaxies.

I want to cover the translation worries in a video, once I gather all the information I can.

I remember that discussion from a few years ago, maybe you find Herms' thread about this topic helpful.

https://x.com/Herms98/status/1388961413683548164

[TheComicCurator]

Thank you so much for that high res snap! Was a nightmare to get a really nice quality of that panel, so I appreciate it.
There is a MASSIVE war on Youtube and Discord between DB fans on the real translation here.

One side says the panel says the Moro would potentially destroy the galaxy.

The others, claiming the original Japanese version says Moro will destroy ALL the Galaxies.

I want to cover the translation worries in a video, once I gather all the information I can.

I remember that discussion from a few years ago, maybe you find Herms' thread about this topic helpful.

https://x.com/Herms98/status/1388961413683548164

I'm 100% on board. Every translator (human) that I've been able to find, and even ChatGPT translate it with Galaxy (singular). Ty for the help.

[kemuri07]

Thank you so much for that high res snap! Was a nightmare to get a really nice quality of that panel, so I appreciate it.
There is a MASSIVE war on Youtube and Discord between DB fans on the real translation here.

One side says the panel says the Moro would potentially destroy the galaxy.

The others, claiming the original Japanese version says Moro will destroy ALL the Galaxies.

I want to cover the translation worries in a video, once I gather all the information I can.

I remember that discussion from a few years ago, maybe you find Herms' thread about this topic helpful.

https://x.com/Herms98/status/1388961413683548164

I'm 100% on board. Every translator (human) that I've been able to find, and even ChatGPT translate it with Galaxy (singular). Ty for the help.

With stuff like this it always depends on context, and with the meager Japanese I do know, I probably would interpret "GingaGoto" as the whole galaxy rather than every galaxy. And I also agree with that thread...it does not matter since the point is still the same.