Unpopular DB opinions

[Noah]

Speaking about Z movies, of all the Goku clones, I've always been intrigued that Tullece was the only one who never got any SSJ form in the media, not even in Heroes, where at first they were handing out SSJ3 to most of the characters in the franchise

[WittyUsername]

Speaking about Z movies, of all the Goku clones, I've always been intrigued that Tullece was the only one who never got any SSJ form in the media, not even in Heroes, where at first they were handing out SSJ3 to most of the characters in the franchise

Tullece in general has always been overshadowed by Bardock, as well as Goku Black in the past decade. He has his fans, but even in terms of the non-Broly movie villains, Cooler and Janemba seem to get more attention.

[GhostEmperorX]

Personally thinking that the Z series could have easily done without having 2 movies a year during its original run.

[Jord]

Personally thinking that the Z series could have easily done without having 2 movies a year during its original run.

I agree. Those movies are mostly okay if you're a DBZ fan. If you're not these movies are pretty much nonsensical garbage that fall apart at the story telling level.

[Zephyr]

Posting this reply in the Unpopular Opinions thread because, well, you'll see.

I think the ED is the bigger issue, probably a lock for top 5 worst in the franchise, even when compared to all the Super slop ones we got.

This post made me want to re-listen to all the EDs in the franchise (including for movies), and after doing so I gotta say I strongly disagree with you here. There were only 15 where I thought "yeah, I don't like this", and Daima's wasn't among them. They are:

Spoiler:

DBZ Movie 9 - Surpassing the Galaxy, Rising High
DBZ Movie 10 - The Miraculous Big Fight

GT 1 - I’m Not Alone
GT 2 - Don’t You See!
GT 4 - Let’s Blast Through This Moment with a Rusted Machinegun

JSAT - Orange Hero

Kai 1 - Yeah! Break! Care! Break!
Kai 5 - Oh Yeah!!!!!!!

BoG - CHA-LA HEAD-CHA-LA (Flow)
RoF - Pledge of “Z”

Super 6 - Chao Fan MUSIC
Super 7 - An Evil Angel and Righteous Devil
Super 8 - Boogie Back
Super 9 - Far Away

DBS Broli - Blizzard

I expected going in for this list to have a lot less GT and a lot more Kai and Super. Boy was I surprised!
Granted, some of these (like Orange Hero and Don't You See) I was on the fence on and could probably change my mind on depending on my mood.

[Yuji]

Posting this reply in the Unpopular Opinions thread because, well, you'll see.

I think the ED is the bigger issue, probably a lock for top 5 worst in the franchise, even when compared to all the Super slop ones we got.

This post made me want to re-listen to all the EDs in the franchise (including for movies), and after doing so I gotta say I strongly disagree with you here. There were only 15 where I thought "yeah, I don't like this", and Daima's wasn't among them. They are:

Spoiler:

DBZ Movie 9 - Surpassing the Galaxy, Rising High
DBZ Movie 10 - The Miraculous Big Fight

GT 1 - I’m Not Alone
GT 2 - Don’t You See!
GT 4 - Let’s Blast Through This Moment with a Rusted Machinegun

JSAT - Orange Hero

Kai 1 - Yeah! Break! Care! Break!
Kai 5 - Oh Yeah!!!!!!!

BoG - CHA-LA HEAD-CHA-LA (Flow)
RoF - Pledge of “Z”

Super 6 - Chao Fan MUSIC
Super 7 - An Evil Angel and Righteous Devil
Super 8 - Boogie Back
Super 9 - Far Away

DBS Broli - Blizzard

I expected going in for this list to have a lot less GT and a lot more Kai and Super. Boy was I surprised!
Granted, some of these (like Orange Hero and Don't You See) I was on the fence on and could probably change my mind on depending on my mood.

Are you judging based on the song or the visuals? Because personally all the GT EDs slap.

[Zephyr]

Are you judging based on the song or the visuals? Because personally all the GT EDs slap.

I judged based on the songs themselves. Personally, I found 3/4 of them pretty forgettable. Blue Velvet absolutely fucking slaps, though.

[WittyUsername]

I have a relatively recent unpopular opinion; I do not care one bit for SS3 Vegeta, and I don’t understand why fans were still clamoring for him to get that form. Super Saiyan 3 is pretty much treated as obsolete these days anyway.

Plus, Vegeta being able to access the form in Daima doesn’t even make sense with the Super timeline. He didn’t seem to be able to use that form in BoG. That might not be a problem if we assume that Daima and Super take place in different timelines, but Daima also mentions that Goku comes from Universe 7, so I doubt that was Toriyama’s intention.

I realize the whole “this form exists to sell merch” discourse is contentious on this forum, but to be blunt, I don’t know how else I’m supposed to describe SS3 Vegeta.

[ABED]

I have a relatively recent unpopular opinion; I do not care one bit for SS3 Vegeta, and I don’t understand why fans were still clamoring for him to get that form. Super Saiyan 3 is pretty much treated as obsolete these days anyway.

Plus, Vegeta being able to access the form in Daima doesn’t even make sense with the Super timeline. He didn’t seem to be able to use that form in BoG. That might not be a problem if we assume that Daima and Super take place in different timelines, but Daima also mentions that Goku comes from Universe 7, so I doubt that was Toriyama’s intention.

I realize the whole “this form exists to sell merch” discourse is contentious on this forum, but to be blunt, I don’t know how else I’m supposed to describe SS3 Vegeta.

It does nothing for me, either. However, I think a more likely culprit is the fans were clamoring to see Vegeta turn SS3.and the people making the show are now made up of fans.

[Scsigs]

I have a relatively recent unpopular opinion; I do not care one bit for SS3 Vegeta, and I don’t understand why fans were still clamoring for him to get that form. Super Saiyan 3 is pretty much treated as obsolete these days anyway.

Plus, Vegeta being able to access the form in Daima doesn’t even make sense with the Super timeline. He didn’t seem to be able to use that form in BoG. That might not be a problem if we assume that Daima and Super take place in different timelines, but Daima also mentions that Goku comes from Universe 7, so I doubt that was Toriyama’s intention.

I realize the whole “this form exists to sell merch” discourse is contentious on this forum, but to be blunt, I don’t know how else I’m supposed to describe SS3 Vegeta.

Some decisions they've made with the stories since Super: Broly (actually, maybe Res F now that I think about it) have (whether has been stated as true, or is just blatantly obvious) been done with fans in mind.
1. Bring Freeza back from the dead for a movie because people loved his original arc? Check.
2. Bring Trunks back for an arc in Super because he's popular with the fanbase? Check.
3. Reboot & canonize Broly in the main DB timeline because he's popular in the West? Check.
4. Put Gogeta in a canon story since he's only been in Fusion Reborn because people love him? Check.
5. Reboot Bardock in Minus, then put him in the movie? Check.
6. Reboot the artstyle by bringing in another artist to redo the character designs because fans got sick of the one that's steadily gotten worse since GT & was part of the problems Super had with its animation falling apart quickly? Check.
7. Do a story with Gohan & Piccolo as the primary protagonists who rarely get the spotlight rather than Goku & Vegeta? Check.
8. Bring back Cell? Check, but turned him into a Kaiju with Semi-Perfect Cell's appearance (I'm pretty sure) because that's Toriyama's favorite of the 3 designs for him & it's at least not like how Freeza was handled.
9. Give Vegeta SS3? Why not? Some of the games did it & fans would be elated to see it. We're just gonna do it differently than before to separate it from them.

With Toriyama gone, though, I have a feeling that, unless they get a producer who wholeheartedly understands Toriyama's sense of humor, storytelling methods, & ways of writing the characters, the stories aren't gonna be as good & at least some of the characters are gonna suffer from similar writing faux pas that they did in the Super anime where Toriyama wasn't the one handling the character writing. Goku is the 1 I'm worried about the most because there's a balance to his character that even Toriyama struggled with in the Buu Arc, but managed to get better with since where his goofy side, his lighthearted side, & his more serious side are improperly done & he becomes frustrating to watch. GT had some problems with it, but also had a bunch of other problems, so it's not as noticeable, the Z movies & filler struggled with it (which even Toriyama has commented on back in the day & I'm pretty sure even wrote the character arc for Goku throughout the Android Arc to try to over-correct Toei's adaption of Goku...which was then used by the Super anime writers as a means of writing Goku as a complete idiot who doesn't ever think of others around him rather than just getting ahead of himself & some fans don't realize the difference), & the Super anime struggled with it, even in stuff adapted from the last 2 Z movies. The Toei staff & Toyotaro need to put together a good writer's bible so they know how to properly write some of these characters. They're good with some, but not others, & it's really apparent.

[MasenkoHA]

[
1. Bring Freeza back from the dead for a movie because people loved his original arc? Check.

Toriyama got the idea to bring back Freeza because of the song F by Maximum the Hormone. It wasn't "because fans loved the original arc."

5. Reboot Bardock in Minus, then put him in the movie? Check.

Also not fan related. Toriyama liked Burdock enough to incorporate him into the manga all the way back in 1991. When he decided to do an origin story it made sense to include him

7. Do a story with Gohan & Piccolo as the primary protagonists who rarely get the spotlight rather than Goku & Vegeta? Check.

Toriyama wanted to do a Piccolo story because Piccolo was his favorite character. He got persuaded by a producer to include Gohan as a co-lead but this is another case of Toriyama doing something he wanted to do (at least as far as Piccolo is concerned) and not because the fans wanted it.

[Jord]

Frieza also came back to life in the Fusion Reborn movie.
He also had a rematch in GT, although he was technically dead.

Bringing back such a character is usually a nostalgia boost, and easier than coming up with a new character.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Maximum the Hormone also said themselves that they narrowed the focus of F to the "Planet Namek arc”. So we know everything that happened on Namek leading up to the big battle with Freeza was their inspiration for the song, and it wouldn't have been written if fans didn't like the arc as much.

Freeza is such an iconic character, possibly the most recognisable in Dragon Ball and all of shounen anime and manga it's nigh on impossible to bring him back without some level of pandering.

[WittyUsername]

Toriyama wanted to do a Piccolo story because Piccolo was his favorite character. He got persuaded by a producer to include Gohan as a co-lead but this is another case of Toriyama doing something he wanted to do (at least as far as Piccolo is concerned) and not because the fans wanted it.

If anything, the fact that Toriyama was persuaded to have Gohan as the co-lead is actually a good example of a decision that was made to please fans. A Dragon Ball movie starring Piccolo probably wouldn’t be super popular, but a Dragon Ball movie where Gohan shares the spotlight and gets to be a badass again is another story.

[Gaffer Tape]

I have a relatively recent unpopular opinion; I do not care one bit for SS3 Vegeta, and I don’t understand why fans were still clamoring for him to get that form. Super Saiyan 3 is pretty much treated as obsolete these days anyway.

Plus, Vegeta being able to access the form in Daima doesn’t even make sense with the Super timeline. He didn’t seem to be able to use that form in BoG. That might not be a problem if we assume that Daima and Super take place in different timelines, but Daima also mentions that Goku comes from Universe 7, so I doubt that was Toriyama’s intention.

I realize the whole “this form exists to sell merch” discourse is contentious on this forum, but to be blunt, I don’t know how else I’m supposed to describe SS3 Vegeta.

Yeah, I thought that was pointless. It didn't offend me. I rather accept that transformations have become the price of admission at this point. They're not going away, even though, for me personally, the diminished returns over the decades have all but rendered them pointless to me. So it was just something I shrugged at and spaced out through until the show got to more interesting things.

But I feel that if I was someone who was invested in Vegeta getting this form, I'd honestly probably be a lot angrier. It's just a nothing moment. Transformations are memorable because of what they represent in the story: Trunks's grief, Goku's desperation, Gohan pushed to the emotional brink. People care about them because they are a physical representation of a character. This... was just nothing. It really felt like a box to be ticked. Even if it is just the fans servicing themselves, you'd think they could do a better job of it! But apparently this is what they want because I got plenty of pushback for being "meh" on it in my latest video. Obviously to each their own, and I'd never begrudge anybody for enjoying it. I just think this could have meant something, and I can't really understand why people wouldn't want it to mean more.

[MasenkoHA]

I have a relatively recent unpopular opinion; I do not care one bit for SS3 Vegeta, and I don’t understand why fans were still clamoring for him to get that form. Super Saiyan 3 is pretty much treated as obsolete these days anyway.

Plus, Vegeta being able to access the form in Daima doesn’t even make sense with the Super timeline. He didn’t seem to be able to use that form in BoG. That might not be a problem if we assume that Daima and Super take place in different timelines, but Daima also mentions that Goku comes from Universe 7, so I doubt that was Toriyama’s intention.

I realize the whole “this form exists to sell merch” discourse is contentious on this forum, but to be blunt, I don’t know how else I’m supposed to describe SS3 Vegeta.

Yeah, I thought that was pointless. It didn't offend me. I rather accept that transformations have become the price of admission at this point. They're not going away, even though, for me personally, the diminished returns over the decades have all but rendered them pointless to me. So it was just something I shrugged at and spaced out through until the show got to more interesting things.

But I feel that if I was someone who was invested in Vegeta getting this form, I'd honestly probably be a lot angrier. It's just a nothing moment. Transformations are memorable because of what they represent in the story: Trunks's grief, Goku's desperation, Gohan pushed to the emotional brink. People care about them because they are a physical representation of a character. This... was just nothing. It really felt like a box to be ticked. Even if it is just the fans servicing themselves, you'd think they could do a better job of it! But apparently this is what they want because I got plenty of pushback for being "meh" on it in my latest video. Obviously to each their own, and I'd never begrudge anybody for enjoying it. I just think this could have meant something, and I can't really understand why people wouldn't want it to mean more.

A majority of Dragon Ball fans treat the series like a video game franchise first, an anime second, and a manga third. So it's not surprising they just want to see certain things like Vegeta become Super Saiyan 3 or Goku as an adult meet Burdock so he can fight alongside him or whatever.

[Gaffer Tape]

A majority of Dragon Ball fans treat the series like a video game franchise first, an anime second, and a manga third. So it's not surprising they just want to see certain things like Vegeta become Super Saiyan 3 or Goku as an adult meet Burdock so he can fight alongside him or whatever.

I'm sure there are a lot who do, but do you really think it's a majority? I struggle to believe that many fans primarily view it as a video game franchise. Or do you mean that figuratively, that they *essentially* see the story and characters as secondary to the transformation roster, akin to how people see characters in a video game? That I could definitely believe. I suppose it is possible that culture has shifted just that much, and I'm an old fogey. Well, that latter part is definitely true!

[Majin Buu]

I'm sure there are a lot who do, but do you really think it's a majority? I struggle to believe that many fans primarily view it as a video game franchise. Or do you mean that figuratively, that they *essentially* see the story and characters as secondary to the transformation roster, akin to how people see characters in a video game? That I could definitely believe. I suppose it is possible that culture has shifted just that much, and I'm an old fogey. Well, that latter part is definitely true!

I regularly browse subreddits for news on Dragon Ball video games I'm playing and one time there was a thread about an upcoming content release that spiraled into folks brining up criticisms about the story (I think it was in regards to the ending of the Future Arc), to which one person said something to the effect of "Dragon Ball's storytelling falls apart when you start analyzing it so it's best to turn off your brain if you want to enjoy it" in response to all of that.

I don't agree with that sentiment for the most part, but the statement stuck with me because I've seen fans making statements like that more and more to the point that I think that's how large swaths of the fanbase view Dragon Ball now: A story with shoddy writing that doesn't hold up if you think too much about it, so "turning off your brain" and enjoying the flashy fights and transformations is the price of admission if you want to enjoy it.

[JulieYBM]

I mean, I kind of feel like Toriyama has said as much that that was his intention, but whether or not that was what he did is something else.

[MasenkoHA]

A majority of Dragon Ball fans treat the series like a video game franchise first, an anime second, and a manga third. So it's not surprising they just want to see certain things like Vegeta become Super Saiyan 3 or Goku as an adult meet Burdock so he can fight alongside him or whatever.

I'm sure there are a lot who do, but do you really think it's a majority? I struggle to believe that many fans primarily view it as a video game franchise. Or do you mean that figuratively, that they *essentially* see the story and characters as secondary to the transformation roster, akin to how people see characters in a video game? That I could definitely believe. I suppose it is possible that culture has shifted just that much, and I'm an old fogey. Well, that latter part is definitely true!

Yes, I don't mean they literally think it's a video game franchise first and foremost but they sure as hell treat it like one. With hyperfixations on stats i. Power levels and names like Base Goku and Kid Goku and SSJ Goku because they're not treated as characters in an actual story but playable characters with different skins and variants