Dragon Ball Daima Strength Discussion Thread

[Xeogran]

He's not stronger than SSG Goku though or Goku would have at least considered SSJ4 against Lord Beerus.

That he did not is proof that Lord Beerus, while using only a small fraction (10% or so, maybe even less) of his power, is beyond anything Goku had achieved up to that point, also including Daima (since it's a prequel to Super).

Yeah, not disagreeing with this, but that once again applies to Daima Goku, not GT Goku.
And that line also means that SSG is stronger than Gomah with Third Eye too.

[SupremeKai25]

He's not stronger than SSG Goku though or Goku would have at least considered SSJ4 against Lord Beerus.

That he did not is proof that Lord Beerus, while using only a small fraction (10% or so, maybe even less) of his power, is beyond anything Goku had achieved up to that point, also including Daima (since it's a prequel to Super).

Yeah, not disagreeing with this, but that once again applies to Daima Goku, not GT Goku.
And that line also means that SSG is stronger than Gomah with Third Eye too.

It applies to GT Goku too. The point is rather simple.

In Toriyama's Dragon Ball, SSJ4 multiplier is so weak and pathetic that Goku didn't even take that form into consideration against Lord Beerus, he just went straight for the God ritual.

So why should that small multiplier elevate an (admittedly older) Goku above a younger Goku who's got much, much higher multipliers in all the God forms? Multipliers that could actually make Beerus sweat (unlike SSJ3 and SSJ4). Doesn't the story of Yamcha or Tien show us that years and years of training are utterly and completely irrelevant if the multiplier isn't high enough?

And yeah, SSG Goku would annihilate Gomah in a matter of seconds. That's obvious.

[Xeogran]

In Toriyama's Dragon Ball, SSJ4 multiplier is so weak and pathetic that Goku didn't even take that form into consideration against Lord Beerus, he just went straight for the God ritual.

Because he can't access it at will. Why would he consider something that he has no way to turn himself into?
And out of universe reasoning.. it didn't exist yet @_@

Doesn't the story of Yamcha or Tien show us that years and years of training are utterly and completely irrelevant if the multiplier isn't high enough?

Yamcha and Tien are humans, their gains are much slower and smaller than Saiyans, that's for sure.

[Saiyan007]

Lmaooo this episode flat out confirms Super Saiyan God >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Super Saiyan 4 is strength

Gt fans won't like this at all

[SupremeKai25]

In Toriyama's Dragon Ball, SSJ4 multiplier is so weak and pathetic that Goku didn't even take that form into consideration against Lord Beerus, he just went straight for the God ritual.

Because he can't access it at will. Why would he consider something that he has no way to turn himself into?

Goku couldn't access UI at will but he still mentioned it in his spar with Vegeta at the end of the Tournament of Power arc. I don't think that's a convincing excuse. Just because he can't access the form doesn't mean he shouldn't mention it.

And out of universe reasoning.. it didn't exist yet @_@

This argument is invalid unfortunately. It's a cop-out.

[Kaboom]

Lmaooo this episode flat out confirms Super Saiyan God >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Super Saiyan 4 is strength

If people can say "Xeno Goku isn't the same as GT Goku" as an excuse to dismiss Heroes showing SSB and SS4 as equal, then folks can just as easily say "Daima SS4 isn't the same as GT SS4." Even more easily actually, with the appearance and methods of gaining this version being so different.

[Saiyan007]

Lmaooo this episode flat out confirms Super Saiyan God >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Super Saiyan 4 is strength

If people can say "Xeno Goku isn't the same as GT Goku" as an excuse to dismiss Heroes showing SSB and SS4 as equal, then folks can just as easily say "Daima SS4 isn't the same as GT SS4." Even more easily actually, with the appearance and methods of gaining this version being so different.

Because they aren't, the difference here is Daima is a prequel to Super and we all know how Goku was astonished by the power of his god form in Super

So anyway you take it SSJ4 is much weaker than super saiyan god according to Toriyama

[Kaboom]

Yeah sure. This particular cheapened, halfway-realized, different-looking, officially-Toriyama-downgraded version of Super Saiyan 4 may very well be weaker than Super Saiyan God. The real version of Super Saiyan 4 from GT and Heroes isn't, though. Seriously, after 10 years of modern DB poisoning everything it touches from the original actually-good run of the franchise, what makes you or anyone else think "Toriyama's version" of things matters anymore?

Not to mention the logical narrative points that Xeogran pointed out, which are even only necessary if Daima is trying at all to be in the same continuity as either version of Super. Which all things considered so far, doesn't seem to be the case.

[JulieYBM]

Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu (Mini) confirmed for "stronger than a form that was not strong enough to defeat the original form of Majin Buu."

I can't wait for Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu (Adult) to be confirmed to be stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu (Mini), which is stronger than a form that was not strong enough to defeat the original form of Majin Buu.

Really Tall Gomah should transform into an even smaller Gomah next so as to fight Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu (Adult) as a contrast to the fighting up until now.

[omaro34]

How Strong is Glorio? He showcased more strength in this episode than ever before.

[Saiyan007]

Yeah sure. This particular cheapened, halfway-realized, different-looking, officially-Toriyama-downgraded version of Super Saiyan 4 may very well be weaker than Super Saiyan God. The real version of Super Saiyan 4 from GT and Heroes isn't, though. Seriously, after 10 years of modern DB poisoning everything it touches from the original actually-good run of the franchise, what makes you or anyone else think "Toriyama's version" of things matters anymore?

Not to mention the logical narrative points that Xeogran pointed out, which are even only necessary if Daima is trying at all to be in the same continuity as either version of Super. Which all things considered so far, doesn't seem to be the case.

I could care less on how it looks but the canonical version of SSJ4 is 100% weaker than Super Saiyan God, heroes and the GT versions were never canon in the first place lol.

Wasn't a fan of daima but glad toriyama killed that argument, people actually were saying ssj4 was stronger than ultra instinct

[GreatSaiyaman123]

What are you guys even talking about? Daima SSJ4 and GT SSJ4 are completely different things. That’s like going “Hahaha, Toriyama’s Broly confirms M8 Broly was a universe buster all along!”

[Saiyan007]

What are you guys even talking about? Daima SSJ4 and GT SSJ4 are completely different things. That’s like going “Hahaha, Toriyama’s Broly confirms M8 Broly was a universe buster all along!”

Well movie 8 Broly never destroyed the universe and we know in battle of gods whether it be anime manga or movie version Goku said the SSJG power is a realm so far beyond his previous power

Besides the daima official twitter accounts call it ssj4

[SupremeKai25]

What are you guys even talking about? Daima SSJ4 and GT SSJ4 are completely different things. That’s like going “Hahaha, Toriyama’s Broly confirms M8 Broly was a universe buster all along!”

No they're not. They're literally the same form down to the design. Just because they were achieved differently doesn't mean anything unless you think Vegeta's SSG form is not actually SSG because he got it through training instead of the ritual.

Broly is not a form, he's a character. False equivalency.

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t see how Daima being a prequel to Super automatically makes SS4 weaker than Super Saiyan God. Transformations aren’t necessarily linear in strength just because of chronologically order.

For one, Daima is telling its own story, and we don’t even know the full mechanics behind how this SS4 is being introduced. If anything, it seems to be more of a unique, context-dependent form tied to the magic in Daima, rather than something Goku could just access freely afterward.

Until we get more details on how SS4 works in Daima, there’s no real basis for saying it’s weaker than God.

[SupremeKai25]

I don’t see how Daima being a prequel to Super automatically makes SS4 weaker than Super Saiyan God. Transformations aren’t necessarily linear in strength just because of chronologically order.

Oh, so NOW linearity doesn't matter, good. So GT fans can stop saying that GT Goku is stronger because he's older, right? I mean, you literally just said that linearity doesn't matter, yes?

[nineko]

Just how weak was Abura if he couldn't defeat any tamagami even if he had the eye? Gomah made easy work of a Neva-powered #1.

I don't think the secondary challenge can play a part if Abura or Gomah could simply annihilate a tamagami before the latter has the chance to surrender and start the aforementioned secondary challenge, they could just take the dragon ball from the corpse of the tamagami, unless some there is some shenanigan explanation which e.g. links the dragon balls to the tamagami as a failsafe, and destroys them if obtained in the wrong way.

[Yuji]

Just how weak was Abura if he couldn't defeat any tamagami even if he had the eye? Gomah made easy work of a Neva-powered #1.

I don't think the secondary challenge can play a part if Abura or Gomah could simply annihilate a tamagami before the latter has the chance to surrender and start the aforementioned secondary challenge, they could just take the dragon ball from the corpse of the tamagami, unless some there is some shenanigan explanation which e.g. links the dragon balls to the tamagami as a failsafe, and destroys them if obtained in the wrong way.

Norhing tells us the Third Eye is a linear powerup. Also Abra was weaker than pre-Majin Dabra. Gomah apparently was no weakling even before the third eye.

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t see how Daima being a prequel to Super automatically makes SS4 weaker than Super Saiyan God. Transformations aren’t necessarily linear in strength just because of chronologically order.

Oh, so NOW linearity doesn't matter, good. So GT fans can stop saying that GT Goku is stronger because he's older, right? I mean, you literally just said that linearity doesn't matter, yes?

I’m not sure what you’re getting at because I never made that argument. SS4 in GT, SS God in Super, and nuSS4 in Daima exist in completely different continuities and release orders, so there’s no real reason to compare them directly unless we’re talking about games like Heroes.

[ZombieVito]

What are you guys even talking about? Daima SSJ4 and GT SSJ4 are completely different things. That’s like going “Hahaha, Toriyama’s Broly confirms M8 Broly was a universe buster all along!”

They are basically the same shit lol.