Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 18 - Official Discussion Thread

[shadowfox87]

This was a pleasant surprise... I didn't expect for this to happen because it would contradict Super. The only way to make sense of all of this is if Nevah actually wipes everyone's memories of the events.

I still love it and am looking forward to more! Hope to see Vegeta get his moment in there too!

[Saturnine]

Gotta say I really like how they fixed the black hair of SSj4 and made it at least the same color as the fur. Black is too unremarkable a color for a level beyond SSj3, been saying that since forever. It being a magical transformation also makes more sense than having to use a special golden ape form as a crutch. So while I did think they jumped the shark with this form at first, it might not be so bad after all. I'll be even happier if the official name doesn't end up being SSj4, but in this form I frankly wouldn't mind it being the canon version, even if it's called that.

But yeah, I did get SDBH vibes the first time Goku was shown transformed

[Cybersai]

It was the same with Broly. He was "non canon garbage". After he became canon, haters simply found other excuses to hate him.

I don't think that's the case at all. Broly was always one of the most popular movie villains for decades. And the Super version of Broly is a very different character, so it's easy to see why people would prefer the latter. Also Movie 10 and 11 kind of tarnished Broly's character in the movie universe.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Gotta say I really like how they fixed the black hair of SSj4 and made it at least the same color as the fur.

Ssj4 had the base hair color to balance out the colors. This Heroes inspired version has too much red going on.

[perucho1990]

This was a pleasant surprise... I didn't expect for this to happen because it would contradict Super. The only way to make sense of all of this is if Nevah actually wipes everyone's memories of the events.

I still love it and am looking forward to more! Hope to see Vegeta get his moment in there too!

Maybe this was just a temporary form like how Nevah also boosted Tamagami 3 in todays episode which wouldnt contradict what happens in Super and EoZ.

[tonysoprano300]

Yikes, that was horrible. That transformation had no thematic relevance whatsoever and was literally just given to Goku on a whim by a character who may as well be a plot device at this point. The original SSJ4 transformation was fantastic because it was actually had narrative weight in the arc it was introduced in and Goku achieved it through great hardship/anguish. This was just a very poor imitation...

Also, I'm sure they are setting up Glorio to disobey Arinsu because he formed a genuine relationship with Goku and Friends but I just don't buy it at all. I feel the foundation for that to be compelling was not laid out properly.

[Jord]

My only complaint is the form, there were far better options than edgy SSJ4. Even then it's just a copy-paste of SSJ4 with some colour changes.

I agree that it's cool how the eyes and hair are reddish like Super Saiyan God, but then why not make further changes to make it look less resembling of that ugly SSJ4?
....
They really do look like similar colours!

That's new modus operandi for "new" DB forms. They take an existing form and just tweak the hair color and we have a "new" form. Has been the case since Super.

How ironic that I of all people would be complaining about recolours.

Nah, don't care, Super did the new forms better.

I posted an image of Super Saiyan God. You can see for yourself that the form wasn't just a colour change, it also slimmed down Goku to indicate divine elegance.

Not to get too much off topic, but SSG did indeed had a slimmed down Goku and was perhaps the most interesting of the new forms in Super. It's a shame it was basically discarded once SSB appeared on the scene, which basically became what SSJ was for the post-Frieza part in DBZ, with a different color. They can add stuff like God Ki and such but at the end of the day it became the "basic" transformation for Goku and Vegeta.

[YamiGoku]

This has to be the worst looking Ssj4(counting all Heroes variants), the worst looking transformation, and the worst Goku has ever looked, It looks so bad I can't believe anyone can defend it.

[Saturnine]

Gotta say I really like how they fixed the black hair of SSj4 and made it at least the same color as the fur.

Ssj4 had the base hair color to balance out the colors. This Heroes inspired version has too much red going on.

Nakatsuru should have just gone with golden hair since day one, and when he saw that blonde didn't go well with red fur, he should have adjusted the fur. SS4 as shown in GT does not look like something stronger than SSj3. If the fur were brown, it'd have been a perfect look for a pre-SSJ humanoid Ozaru form. The only thing that differs is that the fur is a pale magenta red rather than brown.

So all in all I think the canon department did a good job with the ssj4 concept - kept the black for Broly's Ikari form, while aligning the hair color for the furred form with the fur itself. I'm ok with that.

[perucho1990]

This has to be the worst looking Ssj4(counting all Heroes variants), the worst looking transformation, and the worst Goku has ever looked, It looks so bad I can't believe anyone can defend it.

Yamamuro SSG Goku exists but some would put part of the blame on Toriyama for the design, also SS4 Goku worst transformation ever including DB fillers like Possessed Barry Kahn?

[Blade]

Well, Super Saiyan 4 appearing was patent given the obvious GT parallels from the start, but this episode and how said form came about felt more like the trashy, throw away Dragonball Heroes minisodes than the former, and I'm actually quite disappointed about that.

This series started out with such promise, but I really feel like it has been rounded down into the lowest common denominator. This is possibly distasteful speculation, but I wonder if the tonal parity between how the series started and where we are now has anything to do with Toriyama's deteriorating health and others taking on duties to write out the screenplays.

I've dared to peek in some parts of the fandom I normally wouldn't, and I'm also really interested to see how many people are now ranking GT favourably over Daima. I honestly never thought I'd see that day as a Dragonball fan - certainly not for something with, allegedly, such heavy involvement from Toriyama.

If I was to further speculate in any way, beyond the general scenario and story treatment, I suspect Toriyama's main involvement in all of this has been drawings (mainly vehicles), some of the new character designs and the world-building elements.

When Daima began I watched each week with a smile on my face at such a lovingly put together story which felt like an overture of all of Toriyama's works, including manga, anime and games. How could they give us such riches over a pithy 20 episodes?

Now, I sadly admit to say, I'm probably eager to see it end.

[AliTheZombie13]

This series started out with such promise, but I really feel like it has been rounded down into the lowest common denominator. This is possibly distasteful speculation, but I wonder if the tonal parity between how the series started and where we are now has anything to do with Toriyama's deteriorating health and others taking on duties to write out the screenplays.

If recall, by the time of his death, 14-16 episodes were finished.
Most likely, he would've had outlines for episodes 17-20.

I've dared to peek in some parts of the fandom I normally wouldn't, and I'm also really interested to see how many people are now ranking GT favourably over Daima. I honestly never thought I'd see that day as a Dragonball fan - certainly not for something with, allegedly, such heavy involvement from Toriyama.

Don't know how those parts are reacting, but people all over BlueSky at least are saying they're glad to see GT get excised from canon (again).

[Makaioshin]

Well, there isn't too much to say about the story about this point. I said the same last week but I can at least enjoy the action on the level of a DBZ movie. The show actively avoided building any dynamic between Goku and Gomah so they are just kind of duking it out for the sake of action. Not too rare for DB as Z movies and GT are mostly the same in this regard.

Some well-animated action though I am not too impressed by the choreography. One thing that has stood out to me in this show is the creativity with group attacks especially with Doo. Sad to see Gomah is already becoming a full giant. That is my least favorite kind of DB fight. At least he doesn't look to be mindless just yet.

As for the new SSJ4, I have no real issue with how it looks. Neva just being able to awaken it easily in Goku is just how things happen in this show. Characters reveal they always could have done these things and it just never came up. It is so strange that I do wonder if it tied to old Namekian and Saiyan connections that kind of existed in the original but barely. The legend of Slug and the Super Saiyan, the Elder knowing of SSJ, the DBS Namekian Book of Legends and SSJ God, and even that background from Evolution all paint a picture of some ancient links between these races. Or maybe Neva can just do that.

[Mr Baggins]

It's very likely they'll say Goku cannot use this form again either outside the Demon Realm or without Neva's magic. It's also very likely Shin and Kibito will accidentally fuse again in the last episode as a "joke" before they depart.

It's equally possible that the show will just diverge into its own little continuity branch, likely partly depending on whether Shueisha plans to continue Super under Toyotaro. We've known that elder Nameks can unlock latent potential since... well, Namek, and there are a couple of visual indicators in this episode that Daima's Super Saiyan 4 is just a straight-up evolution of Super Saiyan 3.

[Cybersai]

Did Glorio really wish for everyone to be turned back into adults? That would obviously make a lot of sense to foil Arinsu's plans, but that would mean we will see adult Goku in SSJ4 next week?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I've dared to peek in some parts of the fandom I normally wouldn't, and I'm also really interested to see how many people are now ranking GT favourably over Daima. I honestly never thought I'd see that day as a Dragonball fan - certainly not for something with, allegedly, such heavy involvement from Toriyama.

GT has been given a second chance by many fans since Super started nearly ten years ago. A lot of people have come to realize that much of the hate GT received over the years was unjustified, especially compared to the content we've gotten since its conclusion.

[YamiGoku]

This has to be the worst looking Ssj4(counting all Heroes variants), the worst looking transformation, and the worst Goku has ever looked, It looks so bad I can't believe anyone can defend it.

Yamamuro SSG Goku exists but some would put part of the blame on Toriyama for the design, also SS4 Goku worst transformation ever including DB fillers like Possessed Barry Kahn?

This new form (I dont know how its called) is the worst by far (IMO), Barry is just that filler, this is supossed to be the new hype form, and is hideous.

This "cannon" Ssj4 looks terribad, the arms are ugly and distracting, the colors are bad, the pants without the belt? ASS, and on top of that they kept Goku in mini form making it extra bad looking, the shot afther he transforms and power ups and he is just standing with the new form has to be the worst looking Goku ever.

[TheMikado]

After all this who still believes in canon?

I’m also watching the people trying to water down Toriyama’s involvement in this and I only feel pity for them.

[tonysoprano300]

This series started out with such promise, but I really feel like it has been rounded down into the lowest common denominator. This is possibly distasteful speculation, but I wonder if the tonal parity between how the series started and where we are now has anything to do with Toriyama's deteriorating health and others taking on duties to write out the screenplays.

If recall, by the time of his death, 14-16 episodes were finished.
Most likely, he would've had outlines for episodes 17-20.

I've dared to peek in some parts of the fandom I normally wouldn't, and I'm also really interested to see how many people are now ranking GT favourably over Daima. I honestly never thought I'd see that day as a Dragonball fan - certainly not for something with, allegedly, such heavy involvement from Toriyama.

Don't know how those parts are reacting, but people all over BlueSky at least are saying they're glad to see GT get excised from canon (again).

Thats pretty funny, given that this series is basically an endorsement of GT at this point. Toriyama liked it so much that he decided to give his own take on it.

[FortuneSSJ]

Better episode and action than the last one, but still some slow motion times that could be rid off.
Leakers have been teasing SSJ4 Goku from the beginning, but none of the fanart got the colors right. They were using GT SSJ4 colors. Love the SSG red.

"Chilldopp" As someone who totally knows Namekian, I think Glorio asked for the main cast to become adults again. And the final round will be with them like that, as it should. It would also allow them to give us Toriyama Adult SSJ4 Goku and SSJ3 Vegeta.

And yes there's no canon in Dragon Ball. It's been dead for over a decade.