Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 18 - Official Discussion Thread

[Hulk10]

I have mixed feelings now about the show.

Same here. The animation and soundtrack are a few things I like about Daima.

I ask myself...Who is Daima for? Daima is too boring and uneventful to keep most kid's attention. It's obviously trying to pander to og fans but it constantly insults our intelligence like a children's show. I take that back, even children's shows are more intuitive than Daima. The claim that it's for GT fans is as laughable as Cell Max being for Cell fans. GT fans wanted the real deal, not this watered-down trite.

Akio Iyoku said that Daima is intended as an anime that GT fans who have children can watch with their children, which doesn't work like that, because kids nowadays use YouTube, TikTok, Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, etc. Not just on smart TVs, but also on smartphones and tablet devices. They don't watch traditional broadcast TV anymore.

I did like that Goku's new form was a homage to SSJ4 but not really that form.

[BernardoCairo]

It's ideas being brought forth by everyone else, damage-controlled by Toriyama, and then adapted by whoever the hell is writing the medium being drawn. Toyotaro doing the manga, Toei the anime.

With Toriyama sadly out of the picture, we may see Toyotaro start to come up with more ideas and the anime adapting them (more like a regular franchise). He was already creating a lot of stuff in the last two original arcs of the manga. But if Daima has shown us anything, it's that Akio Iyoku will also be a major creative force in the future.

[BernardoCairo]

Akio Iyoku said that Daima is intended as an anime that GT fans who have children can watch with their children, which doesn't work like that, because kids nowadays use YouTube, TikTok, Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, etc. for audiovisual entertainment. Not just on smart TVs, but also on smartphones and tablet devices. They don't watch traditional broadcast TV anymore.

I mean, remember, it was originally supposed to be a web series and they're still betting big on making it available on multiple streaming services. It's on Netflix, Max and Crunchyroll at the same time...

[Extreme_kai]

I have mixed feelings now about the show.

Same here. The animation and soundtrack are a few things I like about Daima.

I ask myself...Who is Daima for? Daima is too boring and uneventful to keep most kid's attention. It's obviously trying to pander to og fans but it constantly insults our intelligence like a children's show. I take that back, even children's shows are more intuitive than Daima. The claim that it's for GT fans is as laughable as Cell Max being for Cell fans. GT fans wanted the real deal, not this watered-down trite.

Akio Iyoku said that Daima is intended as an anime that GT fans who have children can watch with their children, which doesn't work like that, because kids nowadays use YouTube, TikTok, Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, etc. for audiovisual entertainment. Not just on smart TVs, but also on smartphones and tablet devices. They don't watch traditional broadcast TV anymore.

I might be wrong, but isn't Japan still engrossed in more traditional media? DVDs, CDs, broadcasts TV, etc? So maybe that works for the Japanese audience, but it sure isn't working for Western audiences. I will give Daima some credit though. People I follow on Instagram who rarely talk about Daima are talking about ssj4 being canon. So it's something, I suppose.

[ZeroNeonix]

If this transformation isn't technically Super Saiyan 4, like Broly's Wrath form (or whatever it's called), that will be funny. If anything, this form would make more sense for the name, because the GT Super Saiyan 4 isn't even a Super Saiyan transformation. It's unlocked by first going Golden Oozaru, then regaining one's humanity, but keeping the Oozaru power. It was just called Super Saiyan 4 because...what else do you call it?

The transformation in Daima, though? It seems to be a clear step up from Super Saiyan 3. When Gomah drains his power away, we even see Goku regress into Super Saiyan 3. That wouldn't happen with GT's Super Saiyan 4.

[FortuneSSJ]

I'm really glad Toriyama didn't made his SSJ4 yellow. SSJ4 should have a different color from the previous 3 SSJ forms.

[TheMikado]

Best episode at all.

Goku SSJ4 doesn't have any explanation but the fight was insane...
And the best part was Porunga kicking Gomah's ass with a single blow haha. Thanks god now we have a God Dragon that acts like a real powerful entity.

For next episode I hope:
Glorio will ask for all of then to be adults again.
And Dra Arinsu will be fighting too
I do think Panzy will die and after daima her soul will be Pan.
And the fusion... I bet it will be Piccolo + Vegeta

Omega Shenron and the Black Star Dragons say hi.

To be fair most of the Shadow Dragons were jobbers, only Nouva Shenron and Omega Shenron were actually intimidating.

Yes, but would also likely stomp pre-Super power levels. I’m sure a few couple have operated at similar levels here.

[Saturnine]

Still hate the form, but if they wanted to go full on nostalgia why not make it like this?



I would still not like it because the lack of bulding, but visually it would be better.

Hot take: the black hair never made sense for this tier of power (meant to be above ssj3), so I'm glad they did something about the hair. At least it somewhat thematically justifies the reddish fur, which otherwise also felt super arbitrary to me.

[Tian]

I'm not really a fan of the re-design. It clashes with Super Saiyan God's crimson hair and irises.

Call me nostalgic but the black hair made it stand out of the other Super Saiyan phases.

Not sure whether this canonized version of the SSJ4 will get a new name or not but in case it does, please, I hope it gets a more distinct name. Not something generic like Orange Piccolo...

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Ghoma being giant is not surprising considering that Baby also went Oozaru during his fight with Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

I completely forgot about that. Baby was a great ape, that made sense. What the hell was going on with Gohma ?

Super Saiyan 3 being a double-edged sword consistently serviced the story. Its power eclipsed Buu's almost every time it appeared, but it also constantly hindered the protagonists without them even being aware.

Super Saiyan 3 constantly subverted expectations. It fucked with people's minds right up until the end of the story arc, making readers assume its "full power" would help Goku finally eliminate Pure Buu when, in actuality, it was the Earthlings whom would help save the day.

Super Saiyan 3 is THE form that forced Vegeta to come to terms with the fact that Goku was simply stronger than him. It changed up their whole dynamic and developed Vegeta's character in a believable, self-reflective way.

I think this is a perfect response to anyone who claims Ssj3 was pointless and the story could've played out the same without it. I'd like to add that it was Ssj3 that finally won over Goten and Trunks' respect. Before that, both of them were constantly questioning his abilities and even ended up badmouthing him following Gohan and Vegeta's initial battles against Buu. Ssj3 put a stop to all of that.

[sunsetshimmer]

Hot take: the black hair never made sense for this tier of power (meant to be above ssj3), so I'm glad they did something about the hair. At least it somewhat thematically justifies the reddish fur, which otherwise also felt super arbitrary to me.

I prefer to look at this different way: what didn't make sense wasn't its look, but its name. SSJ4 had nothing to do with SSJ3, you didn't even need that form and it worked completely different than all the "previous" forms (Baby for example couldn't get it, not due to lack of power or control but because his cells were mixed with Vegeta implying only pure blood saiyans can reach it). It should've never been called like that. It's as dumb as SSJ God name, cause it isn't SSJ either.

Also i prefer old look. New one is fine, except two things:
-Arms look HORRIBLE, like wtf was Toriyama or whoever designed it thinking
-Colors. I mean they look cool, i like how it looks more like limit breaker from SDBH, but they blend in way too much. Limit breaker did much better job distinguishing all the shades. Also, og colors are still just better to me. I always loved that for once hair color does NOT change. It also made it more clear it's not regular SSJ form but rather some evolution of their primal powers.

[Extreme_kai]

Hot take: the black hair never made sense for this tier of power (meant to be above ssj3), so I'm glad they did something about the hair. At least it somewhat thematically justifies the reddish fur, which otherwise also felt super arbitrary to me.

I prefer to look at this different way: what didn't make sense wasn't its look, but its name. SSJ4 had nothing to do with SSJ3, you didn't even need that form and it worked completely different than all the "previous" forms (Baby for example couldn't get it, not due to lack of power or control but because his cells were mixed with Vegeta implying only pure blood saiyans can reach it). It should've never been called like that. It's as dumb as SSJ God name, cause it isn't SSJ either.

Also i prefer old look. New one is fine, except two things:
-Arms look HORRIBLE, like wtf was Toriyama or whoever designed it thinking
-Colors. I mean they look cool, i like how it looks more like limit breaker from SDBH, but they blend in way too much. Limit breaker did much better job distinguishing all the shades. Also, og colors are still just better to me. I always loved that for once hair color does NOT change. It also made it more clear it's not regular SSJ form but rather some evolution of their primal powers.

I agree with you on the arms. I cannot believe those horrible things made it past the final draft. It's just so unnecessary and just makes animating him more cumbersome. In the original design, it was all red fur until it met the armbands, now you have to draw this awkward oval of flesh over the armbands. It's hideous and resembles less of a monkey's hand and more of an ill-cut shirt sleeve. I can forgive the awkward boob strap thing he has over his pecs now, but the arms are unforgivable and single-handedly destroys the design for me. I feel like how Chris Chan felt about Sonic's arms being blue in Sonic Boom right now lol.

[Chuquita]

I'm glad someone said something about the fur strategically covering Goku's nipples in this version of ssj4 because I do think it's funny; as if Goku's never been on screen shirtless before nor is he particularly refined modest.

[AliTheZombie13]

I really don't want to see fucking Kid Goku naked, so thanks for censoring the nipples.
He can have them back when he's adult, though.

[Chuquita]

I really don't want to see fucking Kid Goku naked, so thanks for censoring the nipples.
He can have them back when he's adult, though.

Agreed.

It's smart design.

[Lord Beerus]

What…

What…did I just watch?

This episode was the most visually stimulating nonsense I’ve seen since Episode 66 of Super. I have a feeling this episode is what Daima is will be remembered for and I don’t think that’s a good thing. It was just totally bonkers in all the best and worst ways.

So much to unpack.

First off, Majin Duu has officially become my favourite in the show. Him imitating SSJ3 when her Goku powering up was the best visual gag to come of Dragon Ball in YEARS. Legitimately hilariously stuff and honestly the most entertaining thing to come out of Daima.

Visually speaking, Toei brought their A-game again. Especially when it came to…

…Goku being given SSJ4.

*sigh*

Daima…take a seat. We need talk. Just have a seat right there. Right there.

Daima looks around sheepishly while sitting in the chair in front of them

Lord Beerus pulls up a chair and sits in front of Daima

What’s going on here, Daima?

Real talk though? What is Daima meant to be. Because it sure as hell doesn’t feel like the nostalgic throwback to the early days of Dragon Ball with how watered down that initial presentation was. Throwing back to the glory years of “Z” felt hackneyed with reintroduction SSJ3 and the debut of SSJ3 Vegeta. And now with grand reboot of SSJ4 (Yeah, I know that’s not what it’s called, but the show doesn’t give a fuck, so why should I?) and I’m just left scratching my head wondering what Daima is doing with itself, because this shit is just sad.

Daima had the chance to do something bold, to something unique. Now it’s just fallen into same trap of Resurrection F, Minus and all of Super of trying and failing to redress Dragon Ball iconography in a vain hope of claiming some form of identity.

Rather than move the franchise forward, it instead it falls back on bad habits, like watching alcoholic trying to be sober but then going to bar under the pretence of thinking that just one drink won’t be bad and only to end up getting arrested for a DUI later that same night. It’s just depressing to watch.

And just giving the form to Goku (and Goku alone!?) brings about all the negative stereotypes people have had with the franchise and favouritism Goku as a character has in any given Dragon Ball narrative. There was no build up, no character growth or thematic narrative enhancement with this form. It means NOTHING. It’s just ANOTHER cynical cash grab transformation to be thrown in the pile with Beast Gohan, Orange Piccolo, Black Freeza, Ultra Ego and Super Saiyan Blue. Not to mention the Daima redesign of SSJ4 is hideous.

The tension surrounding Glorio making the wish would have been far greater if Glorious being a “traitor” had been better written and paced throughout the show, Glorio had better chemistry with the main cast to make the “betrayal” more drama and personal and Glorio himself had been a more fleshed character to make the personal dilemma of making the wish more palatable. I do think ending the episode without knowing what wish was made was a pretty clever cliffhanger.

Also… Gomah trying to attack Red Porunga (Yeah, I know that’s not what he’s called, but the show doesn’t give a fuck, so why should I?) only to get flicked away was a pretty damn funny visual gag but also served to show how fucking schizophrenic this show is with its presentation.

Daima… please stop drinking.

EDIT: At least the music been pretty good.

EDIT 2: Oh my God. I just read Daima’s producer’s creative thoughts about Daima, and man… that explains A LOT.

[Chuquita]

I'm so amazed they had years to write Daima and this was what they came up with. It's not like they didn't have time to weave a more complex story; it feels like they wrote enough for 10 episodes, learned they suddenly needed space for 20, and instead of building they stalled for time.

That my expectations were already low on the initial reveal of "oh they've been turned into kids" made me think "oh this one isn't for me", (spoiler: this one's not for me and maybe someday I'll get more Super, but maybe I won't) but now after the way it's written I'm like who is it for? Even if I was a casual fan who'd dropped off decades ago and had a kid who was at this moment the age of the target demographic Daima's shooting for, I still think we both would've gotten bored.

[SHINOBI-03]

Went to sleep last night before the airing time so naturally I woke up with Anime News Network of all beings spoiling the surprise

Sadly I'm going to say this is Daima's lowest point (yet). Not is Goku's new (not) Super Saiyan 4 is so nostalgic baiting but the way it's executed is just out there. I love Neva, he's still my favorite character here, but that's one asspull too many.

[Cybersai]

There are a few things that I'm curious about with only 2 episodes left:

1. The use of the fusion bugs, they wouldn't introduce them to never use them

2. Vegeta possibly getting the SSJ4 power up as well? It's probably now or never

3. Arinsu is probably not going to get a fight. There's just no time left, but I really hope she isn't just treated like Degesu.

4. Duu and Kuu's fate, they're unlikely to die, so just live in peace in the demon realm?

5. Neva's fate, I get the feeling he's going to die/fade away similar to Kami or the Eldest Namek/Guru due to giving Goku and possibly Vegeta their power up. This will also do away with the Demon Realm Dragon Balls so nobody else can use them.

[sangofe]

Incredible episode. The parts with Goku and Duu were super fun. My favorite part of the episode. The animation and colors was absolutely amazing. And there's a cliff hanger at the end. Sure, there were some short cuts with Glori being able to speak animation and Neva giving Goku magic powers but WHATEVER! I don't care!