Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

I would argue Vegeta survived Goku's blast in part because of his armor.

[LightBing]

Still, the point is that the blast was stronger than Vegeta’s power, and thus overtook Vegeta’s defense and blasted him away. That’s what you’d expect of a blast stronger than its target. Freeza defending himself from the Kamehameha would at least suggest they’re comparable.

To me, the point is that the Kaioken under performs given it's on-paper power. A blast that by all rights should've killed Vegeta left him fully ambulatory and in arguably better condition than Goku was in after he fired it. Freeza taking superficial damage just means he wasn't as outmatched as Vegeta was (or that he tapped into more than 50% of his power to defend against it). Not saying that the official databook numbers are wrong, just that it doesn't break the story if you interpret things differently.

Goku's Kamehameha was weakened by the Galick gun, plus Vegeta didn't take full damage since he slid away.
Both these factors justify doing less than it logically should.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How strong is Vegeta post Oozaru? His Oozaru form was stronger than KKx5 Goku (Or at least KKx4 going by Gohan a and Kuririn’s reactions), but post Oozaru Vegeta has his hands full with enraged Gohan. Did he lose even more power when detransforming?

[DanielSSJ]

How strong is Vegeta post Oozaru? His Oozaru form was stronger than KKx5 Goku (Or at least KKx4 going by Gohan a and Kuririn’s reactions), but post Oozaru Vegeta has his hands full with enraged Gohan. Did he lose even more power when detransforming?

Could be. Goku always feel asleep after detransforming, so it's possible it takes a lot out of you physically.

[QuakingStar]

Goku and Gohan both would fall asleep after transforming, but neither of them had mastered their tail by that point and neither were able to master their Ozaru forms like Vegeta did. So I do think leaving the form weakened Vegeta even further but at the same time the ONLY reason I think he stayed conscious was because he had mastered it.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta does look strained after he reverts.

Spoiler:

Power levels:

Spoiler:

Vegeta: 18,000
~ Injured by KHH: 9,000
~ Post Power Ball: 4,500
~ Oozaru: 45,000
~ Back to base: 3,600
~ Half dead: 1,800

Goku: 8,000
~ Post KKx4: 4,000

Gohan (Enraged): 2,800

[ZombieVito]

I actually like Vegeta at 4,000 after returning to normal. 1,500 after the Genkidama.

You can guess why lol.

[dbgtFO]

I actually like Vegeta at 4,000 after returning to normal. 1,500 after the Genkidama.

You can guess why lol.

Lol that's clever

[Kaboom]

That IS clever, and it fits the rest of the "fight" against him pretty well to boot. I may have to steal that...

[ZombieVito]

Vegeta at 4,000 also goes well with having Gohan at 3,600 against him and paying off him surpassing Piccolo like he said Gohan would do.

[Koitsukai]

Didn't Goku say Vegeta's power took a significant nosedive after creating that fake moon?

[dbgtFO]

Didn't Goku say Vegeta's power took a significant nosedive after creating that fake moon?

Yes

Chapter: 232 (DBZ 38), P11.2
Context: as Vegeta uses the Power Ball
Goku: “His ki went down as soon as he made that weird light!! What would he go and do that for?! I don’t get it!!”

[Yuji]

For Daima:

Goku: 32.500.000
-- SS: 3.250.000.000
-- SS2: 6.500.000.000
-- SS3: 26.000.000.000
-- SS4: 52.000.000.000

Goku (Mini): 16.250.000
-- SS: 1.625.000.000
-- SS2: 3.250.000.000
-- SS3: 13.000.000.000
-- SS4: 26.000.000.000

Vegeta: 32.500.000
-- SS: 3.250.000.000
-- SS2: 6.500.000.000
-- SS3: 26.000.000.000

Vegeta (Mini): 16.250.000
-- SS: 1.625.000.000
-- SS2: 3.250.000.000
-- SS3: 13.000.000.000

Piccolo: 900.000.000
-- Mini: 450.000.000

Shin: 500.000.000
-- Mini: 250.000.000

Glorio: 1.000.000.000

Dabra: 1.500.000.000
-- Babidi boost: 3.000.000.000

Tamagami 3: 1.500.000.000
-- Power-up: 2.500.000.000

Tamagami 2: 2.000.000.000
-- Power-up: 3.000.000.000
-- Neva boost: 4.000.000.000

Tamagami 1: 2.500.000.000
-- Power-up: 3.500.000.000
-- Neva boost (?): 4.500.000.000

Majin Koo: 1.500.000.000

Majin Doo: 6.500.000.000
-- Cookie: 13.000.000 000

Kraken: 3.500.000.000

Mega child: 5.000.000.000
Mega adult: 15.000.000.000

Gomah: 25.000.000.000

For reference:

Fat Boo: 20.000.000.000
Evil Boo: 12.500.000.000
Mr. Boo: 7.500.000.000

Gotenks: 6.250.000.000
-- SS: 12.500.000.000
-- SS3: 100.000.000.000

Ultimate Gohan: 130.000.000.000

Super Boo: 90.000.000.000
-- Gotenks: 190.000.000.000
-- Gohan: 220.000.000.000

Kid Boo: 25.000.000 000

[ZombieVito]

For Daima:

Goku: 32.500.000
-- SS: 3.250.000.000
-- SS2: 6.500.000.000
-- SS3: 26.000.000.000
-- SS4: 52.000.000.000

Goku (Mini): 16.250.000
-- SS: 1.625.000.000
-- SS2: 3.250.000.000
-- SS3: 13.000.000.000
-- SS4: 26.000.000.000

Vegeta: 32.500.000
-- SS: 3.250.000.000
-- SS2: 6.500.000.000
-- SS3: 26.000.000.000

Vegeta (Mini): 16.250.000
-- SS: 1.625.000.000
-- SS2: 3.250.000.000
-- SS3: 13.000.000.000

Piccolo: 900.000.000
-- Mini: 450.000.000

Shin: 500.000.000
-- Mini: 250.000.000

Glorio: 1.000.000.000

Dabra: 1.500.000.000
-- Babidi boost: 3.000.000.000

Tamagami 3: 1.500.000.000
-- Power-up: 2.500.000.000

Tamagami 2: 2.000.000.000
-- Power-up: 3.000.000.000
-- Neva boost: 4.000.000.000

Tamagami 1: 2.500.000.000
-- Power-up: 3.500.000.000
-- Neva boost (?): 4.500.000.000

Majin Koo: 1.500.000.000

Majin Doo: 6.500.000.000
-- Cookie: 13.000.000 000

Kraken: 3.500.000.000

Mega child: 5.000.000.000
Mega adult: 15.000.000.000

Gomah: 25.000.000.000

For reference:

Fat Boo: 20.000.000.000
Evil Boo: 12.500.000.000
Mr. Boo: 7.500.000.000

Gotenks: 6.250.000.000
-- SS: 12.500.000.000
-- SS3: 100.000.000.000

Ultimate Gohan: 130.000.000.000

Super Boo: 90.000.000.000
-- Gotenks: 190.000.000.000
-- Gohan: 220.000.000.000

Kid Boo: 25.000.000 000

Didn't base Vegeta outperformed SS4 Mini Goku?

[QuakingStar]

Yeah, base Adult Vegeta did far better than SS3 Kid Goku and slightly better than Kid SS4 Goku. It's solid proof that turning them into kids made them astronomically weaker.

[Yuji]

The Tamagamis are still stronger than Dabra. They didn't get hundreds or thousands of times weaker for their base selves > their SS3/4 kids selves, unless you wanna make the argument that they'd defeat Dabra in base form as adults now.

I thought by this point we would have learned not to put any stock into base Saiyan performances.

[QuakingStar]

Vegeta needed SS3 to beat the Tamagami, Goku only needed SS2 for a non-amped Tamagami. This is almost a year after Buu's defeat. So if the Tamagami's are supposed to be stronger than Dabura(it never said they were vastly stronger, just stronger so it could have been like Goku vs Piccolo in the Budokai tenkaichi). It just means that Vegeta and Goku indeed grew stronger from almost a year prior. But yes, they haven't gotten THAT much stronger.

Edit

So I just thought about it, and there is no month or day stated for Trunks Birthday, but he IS born in Age 766, there IS a month and day for when he and Goten fight in the tournament up to Kid Buu's defeat which would be May 8th, 774. He is already 8 years old as of May 8th, 774, and Goten is already 7. This means he was turning 9 the NEXT year before May 8th. So Daima could very well be up to an entire year after Buu's defeat.

[ZombieVito]

The Tamagamis are still stronger than Dabra. They didn't get hundreds or thousands of times weaker for their base selves > their SS3/4 kids selves, unless you wanna make the argument that they'd defeat Dabra in base form as adults now.

I thought by this point we would have learned not to put any stock into base Saiyan performances.

Stronger than pre Majin Dabura over 300 years before the Boo arc.

[QuakingStar]

The Tamagamis are still stronger than Dabra. They didn't get hundreds or thousands of times weaker for their base selves > their SS3/4 kids selves, unless you wanna make the argument that they'd defeat Dabra in base form as adults now.

I thought by this point we would have learned not to put any stock into base Saiyan performances.

Stronger than pre Majin Dabura over 300 years before the Boo arc.

Great observation, I didn't think about that either. So the Tamagami's were only stronger than a weaker version of Dabura.

[Hugo Boss]

The Tamagamis are still stronger than Dabra. They didn't get hundreds or thousands of times weaker for their base selves > their SS3/4 kids selves, unless you wanna make the argument that they'd defeat Dabra in base form as adults now.

I thought by this point we would have learned not to put any stock into base Saiyan performances.

Agreed. Unless we’re seriously arguing that Base Goku or Vegeta could now beat Dabra or even the Tamagamis, it’s best not to overanalyze base Saiyan feats in these cases.