Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 18 - Official Discussion Thread

[Cipher]

I have now caught up.

I never want to hear anyone say the Granolah arc's back half is just characterless action-figures fighting again.

I don't know when the last time I was this unengaged during a DB climax was, if ever. For as much as Super (TV) could be frustrating, at least character beats were happening—even clumsy ones.

There's hardly even been any dialogue the last two episodes—it's been traded out for everyone ganging up on and being beaten back by Goma without a real thrust or narrative (even just in terms of action) to the fight, like a '90s DBZ movie. It's all beautifully animated, but there's just nothing happening to keep me engaged.

I genuinely don't see any problems with the main cast teaming up against Gomah, would it have been better if everyone just stood there watching Goku fight? Supreme Kai, Glorio, etc. joining in makes a lot of sense. While Gomah may have no real chemistry with the main cast, he's basically a goofy villain with a power up and thus far the fight has only gone on about 2 episodes.

I generally confused why people have a problem with pacing, when aside from the previous two eps before everyone met up with Arinsu could have been combined into one, there's nothing that feels like it's dragging.

It would be better if there were a flow and beat to the fights with discreet events happening instead of the same group rushes over and over again and stalemate back and forth.

Reread any longer fight in the manga to compare Toriyama plotting serialized action to this. This is much more in line with older Z movie fights, and it's all flashy stuff, but I'm disconnecting with it as a climax to the story.

I'm not really interested in reading the tea leaves on Toriyama's involvement, by the way. Largely though, Daima feels of a piece with his tone and character-writing (and comedy, except for when it slows a gag into the ground a la Vegeta and the Special Corps.) but not, critically for the type of story it is and its functioning as a light-hearted serial, his pacing. On either a macro or scene-by-scene level.

I say this as a big fan of his work—including non-DB series. I wish the execution nailed this a bit more.

It's weird because I want to like Daima; it's beautiful, it's better in tone, humor and character-writing than Super (TV)...but I'm just not having fun. Death by a thousand small but very critical cuts mostly related to length and pacing. My only suggestion really would be "Just cut half and pace it out accordingly."

[QuakingStar]

No episode of this show has made me more depressed, not because this is the worst episode or anything. But because it once again just drills into my head how wasted all of this phenomenal production value is. The story and writing is just not carrying its weight. So many talented animators, storyboard artists, background artists, directors, and more clearly pouring their heart and soul into delivering a true feast for the eyes throughout this entire show, and especially in this episode. Yet I still feel absolutely hollow watching this. I adore the animation and overall presentation in this episode, and I'll likely revisit this often in the future for that alone. But like the rest of the series, there is just no meat on the bone at all whatsoever. Incredibly sad for me to watch all of the beautiful paint be slapped on a rotting and withered canvas.

The irony is back in 2018 I remember people saying the same thing or very similar about Goku vs. Jiren in the TOP. That the animation was (for Super standards) beautiful at the time but it felt shallow because Jiren barely had any character and Ultra Instinct came out of nowhere. I feel like this is something people are going to say a lot going forward honestly. I think I recall some people saying this during Gogeta vs Broly too.

And before that, long before that, people were complaining that Majin Buu barely had any character compared to Freeza and Cell, and SSJ3 and Fusion kind of came out of nowhere.

A tale as old as this fandom.

There were even people back in the day claiming it should have been Goku to awaken the new power(SS2) and defeated Cell. I cannot take most DB fans seriously.

[SupremeKai25]

The irony is back in 2018 I remember people saying the same thing or very similar about Goku vs. Jiren in the TOP. That the animation was (for Super standards) beautiful at the time but it felt shallow because Jiren barely had any character and Ultra Instinct came out of nowhere. I feel like this is something people are going to say a lot going forward honestly. I think I recall some people saying this during Gogeta vs Broly too.

And before that, long before that, people were complaining that Majin Buu barely had any character compared to Freeza and Cell, and SSJ3 and Fusion kind of came out of nowhere.

A tale as old as this fandom.

There were even people back in the day claiming it should have been Goku to awaken the new power(SS2) and defeated Cell. I cannot take most DB fans seriously.

Lol, people are already saying that Super had better foreshadowing and build-up for its forms and tried to create a narrative around them to put Super above Daima... which I agree with, by the way... but this was a far more controversial take to have years ago, absolutely and beyond a shadow of doubt. I won't forget all the posts saying "Super Saiyan White? Ew so lazy and cheap" for a form that was foreshadowed 4 arcs before it actually debuted. (more foreshadowing than any other form ever)

It seems that, thanks to Daima and the hating shtick moving on to a new show, people are starting to look at Super and not be blinded by the "ew, recolours" hatred.

I can't wait for Dragon Ball Duper to start in 2035 and for the fandom to collectively agree that Super and Daima were underrated gems like the Cell/Buu sagas and GT in 2015.

[Artorias]

And before that, long before that, people were complaining that Majin Buu barely had any character compared to Freeza and Cell, and SSJ3 and Fusion kind of came out of nowhere.

A tale as old as this fandom.

There were even people back in the day claiming it should have been Goku to awaken the new power(SS2) and defeated Cell. I cannot take most DB fans seriously.

Lol, people are already saying that Super had better foreshadowing and build-up for its forms and tried to create a narrative around them to put Super above Daima... which I agree with, by the way... but this was a far more controversial take to have years ago, absolutely and beyond a shadow of doubt. I won't forget all the posts saying "Super Saiyan White? Ew so lazy and cheap" for a form that was foreshadowed 4 arcs before it actually debuted. (more foreshadowing than any other form ever)

It seems that, thanks to Daima and the hating shtick moving on to a new show, people are starting to look at Super and not be blinded by the "ew, recolours" hatred.

I can't wait for Dragon Ball Duper to start in 2035 and for the fandom to collectively agree that Super and Daima were underrated gems like the Cell/Buu sagas and GT in 2015.

It's mainly just because the standards continue to plummet lower and lower as time goes on. The Buu saga showed a clear decline in narrative impact and cohesion. Then Super took that and lowered it even further. Now Daima has gone even further beyond that. Yes, people generally tend to look back at things they previously hated with rose tinted glasses, but I would argue in this instance, it's primarily deserved, because each piece of media is worse than the one before it. I also criticized Super at the time along with everyone else, but at this point, I would take that show any day over what we're getting now.

[super michael]

There were even people back in the day claiming it should have been Goku to awaken the new power(SS2) and defeated Cell. I cannot take most DB fans seriously.

Lol, people are already saying that Super had better foreshadowing and build-up for its forms and tried to create a narrative around them to put Super above Daima... which I agree with, by the way... but this was a far more controversial take to have years ago, absolutely and beyond a shadow of doubt. I won't forget all the posts saying "Super Saiyan White? Ew so lazy and cheap" for a form that was foreshadowed 4 arcs before it actually debuted. (more foreshadowing than any other form ever)

It seems that, thanks to Daima and the hating shtick moving on to a new show, people are starting to look at Super and not be blinded by the "ew, recolours" hatred.

I can't wait for Dragon Ball Duper to start in 2035 and for the fandom to collectively agree that Super and Daima were underrated gems like the Cell/Buu sagas and GT in 2015.

It's mainly just because the standards continue to plummet lower and lower as time goes on. The Buu saga showed a clear decline in narrative impact and cohesion. Then Super took that and lowered it even further. Now Daima has gone even further beyond that. Yes, people generally tend to look back at things they previously hated with rose tinted glasses, but I would argue in this instance, it's primarily deserved, because each piece of media is worse than the one before it. I also criticized Super at the time along with everyone else, but at this point, I would take that show any day over what we're getting now.

In my opinion I still prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball Daima over Dragon Ball Super anime and movie.
I prefer Dragon Ball Super manga over Dragon Ball Super anime and movie.

Super Saiyan Blue is literally SSJ with blue colour, it retains none of the traits from SSG, even though it should be SSG + SSB.

In Dragon Ball Daima the characters act like how they would act in the Boo Saga and before.




In this episode, we see what the hype was about the 3rd eye, we see it continue to evolve the user, even when he is losing, he gains the upper hand. Even when SSJ4 had the advantage, it meant nothing to someone that can continue to evolve.

[Mr Baggins]

Just talking about this last action scene. It doesn't feel like Toriyama wrote it at all.
This has the Toei classics with characters repeating special attacks and getting back up after being seemingly defeated. Plus all the weird sequencing.

If you look closely enough, you'll find directorial choices characteristic of Toei in any production. The Toriyama scripted films also had some of them.

I, for one, enjoyed the ebb and flow of the fighting in this episode. Between the Duu team-up, Gomah's weird Third Eye boosts, Super Saiyan 4, the upside down Kamehameha, etc., lots of engaging stuff from an action standpoint. I can't agree with some of the commentary here about there not being discreet beats in this battle, and I appreciate that when characters regain an advantage there's a visual indicator and explanation in lieu of some arbitrary bullshit i.e. "we randomly surpassed our limits" in TV Super or "joke's on you, I was holding back" in the Granolah arc.

Is it perfect in every facet of its presentation? Not necessarily, but I'm generally liking the stalemating overall.

[AliTheZombie13]

It's mainly just because the standards continue to plummet lower and lower as time goes on. The Buu saga showed a clear decline in narrative impact and cohesion. Then Super took that and lowered it even further. Now Daima has gone even further beyond that. Yes, people generally tend to look back at things they previously hated with rose tinted glasses, but I would argue in this instance, it's primarily deserved, because each piece of media is worse than the one before it. I also criticized Super at the time along with everyone else, but at this point, I would take that show any day over what we're getting now.

I would argue the "narrative decline" started with Namek, but that's just me.
But yes, that's exactly the thing.

At the time I was watching Dragon Ball Z a few years ago, I thought Cell was the single worst thing this franchise had ever produced, it couldn't go any lower than that. But this franchise just keeps surprising me.

In Dragon Ball Daima the characters act like how they would act in the Boo Saga and before.

Respectfully disagree, Goku and Vegeta haven't done the Goku and Vegeta thing in Daima yet.
"Yeah, this SSJ4 transformation is cool and all, but that's not how we Saiyans do things (then they proceed to kill Neva)"

[QuakingStar]

Lol, people are already saying that Super had better foreshadowing and build-up for its forms and tried to create a narrative around them to put Super above Daima... which I agree with, by the way... but this was a far more controversial take to have years ago, absolutely and beyond a shadow of doubt. I won't forget all the posts saying "Super Saiyan White? Ew so lazy and cheap" for a form that was foreshadowed 4 arcs before it actually debuted. (more foreshadowing than any other form ever)

It seems that, thanks to Daima and the hating shtick moving on to a new show, people are starting to look at Super and not be blinded by the "ew, recolours" hatred.

I can't wait for Dragon Ball Duper to start in 2035 and for the fandom to collectively agree that Super and Daima were underrated gems like the Cell/Buu sagas and GT in 2015.

It's mainly just because the standards continue to plummet lower and lower as time goes on. The Buu saga showed a clear decline in narrative impact and cohesion. Then Super took that and lowered it even further. Now Daima has gone even further beyond that. Yes, people generally tend to look back at things they previously hated with rose tinted glasses, but I would argue in this instance, it's primarily deserved, because each piece of media is worse than the one before it. I also criticized Super at the time along with everyone else, but at this point, I would take that show any day over what we're getting now.

In my opinion I still prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball Daima over Dragon Ball Super anime and movie.
I prefer Dragon Ball Super manga over Dragon Ball Super anime and movie.

Super Saiyan Blue is literally SSJ with blue colour, it retains none of the traits from SSG, even though it should be SSG + SSB.

In Dragon Ball Daima the characters act like how they would act in the Boo Saga and before.




In this episode, we see what the hype was about the 3rd eye, we see it continue to evolve the user, even when he is losing, he gains the upper hand. Even when SSJ4 had the advantage, it meant nothing to someone that can continue to evolve.

Yeah I don't like "Super Saiyan, but Blue" AND it's shown for the first time vs Final Form Frieza . It's the laziest form ever. It's just a re-color and a waste of a form. MUI is just SSG but Silver so I don't like that either, but still like it more than Super Saiyan Blue. I think they should have stuck with Super Saiyan God all the way until UI is used and UI should have just been like Kaioken and changed the aura color of Super Saiyan God some when it is used.

[QuakingStar]

Just talking about this last action scene. It doesn't feel like Toriyama wrote it at all.
This has the Toei classics with characters repeating special attacks and getting back up after being seemingly defeated. Plus all the weird sequencing.

If you look closely enough, you'll find directorial choices characteristic of Toei in any production. The Toriyama scripted films also had some of them.

I, for one, enjoyed the ebb and flow of the fighting in this episode. Between the Duu team-up, Gomah's weird Third Eye boosts, Super Saiyan 4, the upside down Kamehameha, etc., lots of engaging stuff from an action standpoint. I can't agree with some of the commentary here about there not being discreet beats in this battle, and I appreciate that when characters regain an advantage there's a visual indicator and explanation in lieu of some arbitrary bullshit i.e. "we randomly surpassed our limits" in TV Super or "joke's on you, I was holding back" in the Granolah arc.

Is it perfect in every facet of its presentation? Not necessarily, but I'm generally liking the stalemating overall.

Exactly. DBS did some stupid bs with that. The Anime especially.

[MCDaveG]

There were even people back in the day claiming it should have been Goku to awaken the new power(SS2) and defeated Cell. I cannot take most DB fans seriously.

Lol, people are already saying that Super had better foreshadowing and build-up for its forms and tried to create a narrative around them to put Super above Daima... which I agree with, by the way... but this was a far more controversial take to have years ago, absolutely and beyond a shadow of doubt. I won't forget all the posts saying "Super Saiyan White? Ew so lazy and cheap" for a form that was foreshadowed 4 arcs before it actually debuted. (more foreshadowing than any other form ever)

It seems that, thanks to Daima and the hating shtick moving on to a new show, people are starting to look at Super and not be blinded by the "ew, recolours" hatred.

I can't wait for Dragon Ball Duper to start in 2035 and for the fandom to collectively agree that Super and Daima were underrated gems like the Cell/Buu sagas and GT in 2015.

It's mainly just because the standards continue to plummet lower and lower as time goes on. The Buu saga showed a clear decline in narrative impact and cohesion. Then Super took that and lowered it even further. Now Daima has gone even further beyond that. Yes, people generally tend to look back at things they previously hated with rose tinted glasses, but I would argue in this instance, it's primarily deserved, because each piece of media is worse than the one before it. I also criticized Super at the time along with everyone else, but at this point, I would take that show any day over what we're getting now.

There were even people back in the day claiming it should have been Goku to awaken the new power(SS2) and defeated Cell. I cannot take most DB fans seriously.

Lol, people are already saying that Super had better foreshadowing and build-up for its forms and tried to create a narrative around them to put Super above Daima... which I agree with, by the way... but this was a far more controversial take to have years ago, absolutely and beyond a shadow of doubt. I won't forget all the posts saying "Super Saiyan White? Ew so lazy and cheap" for a form that was foreshadowed 4 arcs before it actually debuted. (more foreshadowing than any other form ever)

It seems that, thanks to Daima and the hating shtick moving on to a new show, people are starting to look at Super and not be blinded by the "ew, recolours" hatred.

I can't wait for Dragon Ball Duper to start in 2035 and for the fandom to collectively agree that Super and Daima were underrated gems like the Cell/Buu sagas and GT in 2015.

It's mainly just because the standards continue to plummet lower and lower as time goes on. The Buu saga showed a clear decline in narrative impact and cohesion. Then Super took that and lowered it even further. Now Daima has gone even further beyond that. Yes, people generally tend to look back at things they previously hated with rose tinted glasses, but I would argue in this instance, it's primarily deserved, because each piece of media is worse than the one before it. I also criticized Super at the time along with everyone else, but at this point, I would take that show any day over what we're getting now.

Not sure where the lack of foreshadowing in Super comes from in the arguments, as even Gohan Beast was foreshadowed pretty much during second half of Super. The writing for sure wasn't good at times in Super and during the Beerus arc, it's really abysmal, but with some of the buildups and even, filling out some gaps after the ill fated Beerus arc, they've acomplished a feat that the whole series has done few times in the past. Only foreshadowing I effectively remember is all that Super Saiyan nonsense since the introduction of Vegeta and Nappa, that was quite a steady massage before it happened on Namek finally. Yeah, and Gohan's hidden power! But they were all pretty much deeply ingrained in story narrative for a reason, connecting some of the characters and underlying themes.
Everything else was kinda asspull pretty much, mostly in Buu arc.

But that is the level of storytelling we kinda expect don't we? Toriyama always mostly went by as it came and besides the first 2 levels of Super Saiyan mostly retconned it's way forward (Piccolo being alien, Goku being alien, RR Androids, Potara and so on),
but with simple Shonen formula that Dragon Ball has, you have to ramp it up a bit.
And sadly, this kinda happens from Cell arc onwards and it's getting worse. Here goes my comparison of Daima and Granolah arc. You start with interesting story bits and setting, which is fun, but then it fades aways and most of the arc is continuous fight against someone.
And I hate to say it, but for me, the fights are boring... weird in shonen/wuxia inspired show right?
But the thing is, it's like I am watching the same stuff over and over. I really enjoyed the new and creative ways of how they came up with new ki attacks, nowadays it's mostly ki based/shaped weapons or shapes like that huge Goku in Moro arc, which remind me more of the Patronus charm from Harry Potter, or the same old kamehameha, makkankosappo... like it all went to default settings.
There is not much of character development, besides we have to turn back to adults/defeat Gomah versus thank god for the third eye on my forehead, I need to defeat you and stay king of the underworld. Intriguing indeed.
And to be fair, it's not a rocket science. Someone compared Star Wars fandom to this fandom (and basically all the fandoms these days can be compared like that) and in that regard, check the Skeleton Crew, which is pretty much for the same target audience and why you might ask? Because it's character driven show and with few hick-ups, the story works, it's straightforward and simple.
And with limited series like Daima, I'd expect more tight writing instead of feeding us the tropes one after another with mindset that feels like "it's the same old Dragon Ball, so you'd love it. The original story is done anyways, so please accept it.

I did like Super Hero movie a lot even with that hamfisted Gohan Beast at the end, but still, at least some of the side characters got time to shine and it was refreshing... and character driven

[Izanagi]

You said that forms should be taken only after terrible hardships, you do realize that Goku was pummelled and beaten to a pulp by Gomah, right? You even singled out SSG and Ultra Instinct, all forms that Goku achieved only after getting stomped (SSG) or training for 4 ARCS (Ultra Instinct).

Besides, even if this form was being handed out for free, it wouldn't be setting any precedent. That precedent would have already been set by Bulma 30 years ago when she asspulled some stupid machine that gifted Baby/Vegeta with SSJ4. Anyway, this form is activated by Neva's magic and the Demon Realm, so this is a special form that has no bearing on anything that will happen in the future. It's not setting any precedent.

Getting physically beaten up isn’t the same as earning a transformation. It’s not about how many punches Goku took, it’s about narrative progression. Sure, Goku got stomped during the fight against Beerus, but SSG itself wasn’t the result of that struggle. It was unlocked through the “Saiyan ritual,” which had zero foreshadowing and no connection to Goku’s personal growth or training. The beatdown didn’t unlock the form; it just happened after he got it.

Your point about UI almost lands, but not quite. Yes, Goku trained through several arcs before hitting UI, but the issue isn’t the time investment; it’s how the transformation was introduced. UI came out of nowhere mid-fight with no real setup, both in the anime and the manga. The concept of dodging instinctively had never been properly seeded before, making it feel sudden, even if the training somewhat justified it.

Bringing up GT’s Bulma and the Blutz Wave machine is just deflection. GT’s writing was messy, and most fans already critique it for that. Using a bad moment from another series to justify bad writing now is like saying, “Well, this meal is bad, but remember that awful dinner we had in 2005? So it’s fine.” GT’s SSJ4, despite the Blutz Wave nonsense, still tied thematically to Saiyan roots and the Oozaru form: Vegeta mentioned back in the Saiyan arc that Oozaru happens when Blutz Waves are amplified by reflecting off a full moon then absorbed by the eyes. It wasn’t great, but it wasn’t a random power-up with zero lore.

Also, the whole “it’s magic, so it doesn’t need rules” defense isn’t really a good excuse... Fantasy and sci-fi both rely on internal consistency to make stakes feel real. If magic can do literally anything with no explanation, then there are no stakes. Goku could get turned into a toaster in the next episode and it’d be equally valid. Saying Daima’s SSJ4 “won’t set any precedent” is also a bit of a stretch. Every power-up in Dragon Ball adds to the escalating mess of transformations, whether it’s isolated or not. Fans will still compare it to existing forms and judge it by the same standards.

Gohan is by far the worst handled character in the modern era. He keeps going through the same character arc and learns nothing each time. As for Beast, it's tied with Trunks' Rage form as one of the worst pieces of writing to come out of this franchise. If there's anything to take away from modern DB, it's that Toriyama was right to end the story when he did back in 1995. You may be able to squeeze a good story out of it here and there (Battle of Gods), but there's simply not enough there for a full fledged on-going series, as most of what we've ended up with is ground that was covered in the past.

Agreed. Gohan’s been stuck in this Groundhog Day arc for decades now. Gohan slacks off, new threat arrives, Gohan jobs, Gohan then decides he has to get his shit together, does the bare minimum to get stronger, he gets a little more angrier and gets another free power up that makes him stronger than everyone else and the cycle repeats. It was fine during the Cell arc (even though I'm not a fan of his sudden pacifism) because it was a coming-of-age story, Gohan stepping into his potential was the point. But modern DB just rinse and repeat that arc without any progression. Beast Gohan is the cherry on top of this laziness. He skips training again, still unlocks god-tier power through sheer anger, and nothing changes. There’s no lesson learned, no growth, just power for the sake of power. Though, I would argue that this problem started way back in the Majin Boo arc because Toriyama didn’t know what to do with him because Gohan is a lot harder to write as a main character than Goku, he's not as active as him.

Personally, I think the Freeza arc could’ve been the perfect stopping point. The Saiyan and Namek arcs were so connected to each other that they told one singular narrative with a clear beginning, middle and end. You can call the Raditz chapters the prologue, the Saiyan arc is Part 1 and Namek is Part 2. It literally flows from one arc into another. Everything since then has been a desperate attempt to stretch a closed story. Occasionally, we get gems that expands upon the cosmology (Battle of Gods), but most of modern DB feels like reheated leftovers.

The Android arc lacks the thematic unity of the Saiyan and Namek arcs. It feels like a soft reboot rather than a continuation. The stakes shift from fighting an intergalactic empire to going back to Earth and fighting some scientist who made two humans stronger than Frieza, which is so jarring. The arc also cements the idea that if you’re not a Saiyan, you’re irrelevant. Previously, characters like Kuririn, Piccolo, Yamcha and Tenshinhan all had meaningful roles and purposes they served, even if they weren’t as strong as Goku. The Cell arc would have still been a great stopping point for the series (though not as thematically as powerful as Freeza IMO) with Goku passing the torch to Gohan, since the theme of the Cell arc seems to be about legacy.

[MCDaveG]

I disagree about Ultra Instinct, because you can say that the groundwork has been laid up during the training with Whis and discussing the state of mind, having the body work as automaton without thinking and emotions, which is how Whis operates in fight.
And it pretty much is that, confirmed by Whis and Beerus afterwards. The weird thing is that you need transformation to fight on autopilot, but whatever, it might be that Saiyans as mortal plane beings, transform into something resembling a deity to be able to operate in that realm

Not a fan of nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.
I don't mind SSJ God either. New form after years of virtually no new content and using the Buu arc characters and transformations till death. SSJ Blue in Ressurection F is utter bullshit tho.

For me, the best option would be to "learn how to reach beyond limit without adding transformations each time, in their basic bodies", but that doesn't sell toys

The biggest elephant in the room is still not moving forward beyond End Of Z and having that inbetween gap stretched beyond belief.

[Koitsukai]

What? UI has been mentioned since RoF. The anime even had that Hit two-parter episode where Goku was already working on his perception skills. Shit, even since Dragonball they have been talking about not thinking and letting the body do the work. The body reacting on its own is a martial arts schtick older than time.

One can build up something, but you still need to save some stuff to provide a sense of surprise. Were people actually expecting Whis to say "nope, again, you need to auto-dodge, Goku; try again". It's also self-explanatory, if the body reacts on its own then of course it will dodge automatically when done properly.
The GT narrator is not in the wrong for not saying "and now Goku has been grinding coffee seeds so he can become a red-hairy adult with a tail".

The anime UI introduction suffers from the "what? that's what triggered it?"; however, the manga clearly has him experience a huge loss, and only by controlling those emotions he can take his skills to the next level.

[LightBing]

Just talking about this last action scene. It doesn't feel like Toriyama wrote it at all.
This has the Toei classics with characters repeating special attacks and getting back up after being seemingly defeated. Plus all the weird sequencing.

If you look closely enough, you'll find directorial choices characteristic of Toei in any production. The Toriyama scripted films also had some of them.

I, for one, enjoyed the ebb and flow of the fighting in this episode. Between the Duu team-up, Gomah's weird Third Eye boosts, Super Saiyan 4, the upside down Kamehameha, etc., lots of engaging stuff here from an action standpoint. I can't agree with some of the commentary here about there not being discreet beats in this battle, and I appreciate that when characters regain an advantage there's a visual indicator and explanation in lieu of some random arbitrary bullshit i.e. "surpassing limits" in TV Super.

Is it perfect in every facet of its presentation? Not necessarily, but I'm generally liking the stalemating overall.

The action is beautiful and there's great sequences. Unfortunately the writing is bad.
There's very little justification for the action and consequences of this fight.

Without going much into it. When you deem someone a huge threat, to the point you have your main character doing something uncharacteristic like summon everyone, only to not have him doing his best.
Only transforming into SSJ3 after everyone gets beaten up. Vegeta likewise get's KO'ed and never went to his strongest form.

What are the stakes? This sequence of events doesn't make sense, making very hard to take anything seriously or feel anything. Only Doo really landed and his "power up" was the silliest although it had heart while fitting the character.

I still think Daima has been good so far but they dropped the ball in this fight and in the army invasion. Annoys me greatly because a few small adjustments and everything would work fine.

[Mr Baggins]

UI came out of nowhere mid-fight with no real setup, both in the anime and the manga. The concept of dodging instinctively had never been properly seeded before, making it feel sudden, even if the training somewhat justified it.

That is roundly, objectively false. UI doesn't just have the most buildup in the franchise; in the manga, it was actually baked into a character arc for Goku and given ample justification for its activation in the Tournament of Power.

Not that this remotely determines which transformation is the best or whatever, since the exact degree of foreshadowing or lack thereof for any plot device like this depends solely on what it's doing for the story. There is no single "right" way to introduce a transformation and give it a compelling role.

Without going much into it. When you deem someone a huge threat, to the point you have your main character doing something uncharacteristic like summon everyone, only to not have him doing his best.
Only transforming into SSJ3 after everyone gets beaten up. Vegeta likewise get's KO'ed and never went to his strongest form.

To be clear, I was referring exclusively to this episode; isolated from the previous, which was hardly problem-free.

The show in general has an odd contrivance for its rarer serious fights. The Saiyans always have to slowly 'rev up' into their stronger forms, and it's consistent because it also happened when they fought the Tamagami. I think if we're to postulate some kind of in-universe justification for it, it's something to do with the inherent limitations of their kid bodies since that's still occasionally cited as an issue when they underperform.

Regardless, the writing could have done more to explain these things exactly as they happen, so I don't disagree. The sense of tension you're describing improved for me when Goku finally did go Super Saiyan 3 after the end of the previous episode.

[Dr. Casey]

I liked Daima quite a bit more when it was just Goku, Kaioshin, Glorio, and Panzy. Show fell off for me after Team A and Team B reunited. Still enjoying the Gomah fight; too pretty not to like despite any deficiencies in writing. And I'll always appreciate Daima for giving us Neva, who's my favorite new character to come out of this.

[IntangibleFancy]

This franchise is bound to have a few misses every now and then, but if you dare point them out, valid critiques and complaints or not, you're apparently a fake, ungrateful and "entitled" fan.

Yeah, no one can say the smallest thing against Sparking Zero without being labeled public enemy #1, #2, & #3. Not to start a debate on whether not not SZ is good or not, but it's hard to deny how incomplete that game feels. Even its Superhero DLC feels incomplete thanks to the lack of stages from the movie.

No worries. I have a few problems with sparking zero too. Aside from its visual direction, I practically made a whole essay about that on Reddit once, but I forgot to write my opener about how awesome the game looks and how I’m super stoked for it and all that stuff, so it wasn’t looked at too kindly. Funny thing is, I waited a bit and made the same post but this time I wrote the “I’m super grateful” disclaimer paragraph and the comments were like night and day lol. I’ve got some problems with Kakarot too, and I’ve never been able to have a mature discussion about it

Everyone in the know made Daima seem like it was going to be the new standard for anime, only for it to just be an OK show. Outside of fake Ssj4, there's nothing I particularly dislike about it, but there's also nothing I love either. For a show with all that talent involved, all that production time, all that hype by people in the know, surely they could've given us something better, right?

I actually wouldn’t have a problem with what Daima’s shown us so far if there were more episodes to develop and expand everything. We could have gotten more worldbuilding, more adventure that didn’t feel like filler or padding, more huge franchise-shaking lore reveals like Rymus, we could have gotten more chances for characters like Anrinsu or Degusu or base Gomah to fight. I could write a whole mini-essay about why I’d love to see the other universes again but I can only name a handful of things that make me want to come back to the demon realm and most of it are characters.

[Piramid89]

What do you guys think about Vegeta weakening while Goku didn’t as much, to the point of even being able to transform into SSJ3? Vegeta ended up on the ground, unable to fight. Does this mean that Goku is ultimately stronger than Vegeta?

[Yuji]

Does this mean that Goku is ultimately stronger than Vegeta?

Is grass green?

But in all seriousness, I think they're saving a big moment for Vegeta which is why he was not present this episode. Conventional storytelling would dictate Vegeta gets something next episode after being ignored this one, but Daima is no fan of decent storytelling.

[Piramid]

Does this mean that Goku is ultimately stronger than Vegeta?

Is grass green?

Well, in this episode, you can also see that Vegeta ends up just as bad as Piccolo and the others. So it could simply mean that the power scaling is garbage.