Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 19 - Official Discussion Thread

[Noah]

To be completely honest, if they removed all the nonsense from SSJ4 (or whatever the hell that new transformation is called) from this episode and the previous one, my experience with DAIMA would've been way better.

• It was obvious that Glorio was gonna wish for them to go back to being adults, glad I wasn’t surprised by that

• I didn’t expect Vegeta SSJ3 again against Gomah, but in a way, it made sense for him to fight since he had plenty of time to rest

• So Vegeta is a perv, huh? Didn't expect that taking showers with Bulma would be more important than an actual fight lol

• They had to wait for Arinsu to tell them to do something about the Third Eye? Oh my god...

• And I swear I thought she was looking for a spell to fuse Kuu with Duu, too bad we won’t get that

• Considering Vegeta didn’t take as long as Goku to transform into SSJ3, here’s another proof in-universe that transformations last as long as the users want them to

• Jesus Christ, they really made Goku use this "new form" by himself, and now? What about Battle of Gods? What about SUPER?

• Damn it Goku! I was waiting for him to say “Super Saiyan 4” and the bastard stays silent, what a bummer...

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I have a question, because I totally didn't notice it:
ARE THE FUSION BUGS GOING TO PLAY A PART IN THIS OR NOT???

Or were they just yet another "Look at this cool thing the Demon Realm has" that's been dumped on us and doesn't actually matter to the story?

I don't think so. Vegeta got his moment and Goku will next week. There's just no time left for a fusion I don't think. How would it even work ? I don't see how in 20 minutes they can have Goku fight, turn Vegeta into a Ssj4 and have him fight, then have them fuse and fight some more. Ssj4 Goku vs Gomah will be the end, I don't think there's any more twists coming.

[dbs fanboy]

But honestly, GT's writing isn't anything special, to say the least.

It absolutely is.
GT not giving Pan 6 new forms shows that it was still a story oriented season, and not selling toys/cards/DLC oriented. I for one am happy she didn't go the Goten/Trunks route and start catching up on Super Saiyans for no reason.

Pan should have totally gone Super Saiyan tho, her being a constant Damsel in distress was annoying when she had so much potential at EoZ

[Cybersai]

I have a question, because I totally didn't notice it:
ARE THE FUSION BUGS GOING TO PLAY A PART IN THIS OR NOT???

Or were they just yet another "Look at this cool thing the Demon Realm has" that's been dumped on us and doesn't actually matter to the story?

I don't think so. Vegeta got his moment and Goku will next week. There's just no time left for a fusion I don't think. How would it even work ? I don't see how in 20 minutes they can have Goku fight, turn Vegeta into a Ssj4 and have him fight, then have them fuse and fight some more. Ssj4 Goku vs Gomah will be the end, I don't think there's any more twists coming.

Not to mention next ep is the end of all of Daima, so they have to say goodbye to Glorio, Panzy and all the demon realm characters since this is probably the last time we will see any of them. We also have no idea where Neva will go.

[dbs fanboy]

Dragon Ball Movie #9 reference?

God, I screamed so much at this shot. I don't know if it was Storyboard Artist & Episode Director Karasawa Kazuya's idea or what, but having Gokuu visibly toss off his top like this? Mama mia! This is our second look at Super Saiyan 3 Gokuu with a shirt on, right after One Piece Episode #590 back in 2013, when Shida Naotoshi animated him using that form.

Speaking of Shida, I believe I spotted him in the next episode preview, so I'm curious if he'll be providing a long scene or not. Shida hasn't appeared since Episode #8 and while he's been busy on other series, with One Piece not currently broadcasting, I am curious if he's had more time to do a huge scene for Dragon Ball Daima Episode #20?

This continues the trend of Goku stripping to all his foes except Cell, Cell gets no tiddies.

[TechExpert2021]

Assuming my katakana isn't dogshit, I think the next episode is titled Zenkai. That's an interesting choice of words, considering it's use in the franchise. I'm hoping that Super Saiyan 4 will just be called Super Saiyan 4, but if it's Super Saiyan Zenkai or something...that'll be a name, alright.

IIRC, the title of Dragon Ball Daima's final episode is "Finale" (I have no idea of the Japanese title unless I see this episode's NEP). You can thank Hulu for spoiling it.

Edit: Nevermind. You predicted the final episode's title correctly.

[QuakingStar]

I have a feeling Kibito is going to warp to Shin, they are going to eat the fusion bug and stay fused due to being two glinds and one is a Supreme Kai. They can then have Neva reveal that his magic wore off before the episode ends, therefor Goku cannot use SS4 on his own again(presumably it will show up later in Super, but he will have to figure that out on his own.)

[BernardoCairo]

Bulma threatening to stop bathing with Vegeta...she has a powerful effect on him.

This has to be one of the best jokes in the series so far. Vegeta's face is hilarious. And the way he comes flying back so fast

[SupremeKai25]

Kaioshin and Kibito will fuse with the bugs in the next episode, linking Daima to Super where there's Kibito Kai.

[BernardoCairo]

Pan should have totally gone Super Saiyan tho, her being a constant Damsel in distress was annoying when she had so much potential at EoZ

I think I actually read somewhere that they wanted to make her go Super Saiyajin at some point, but they feared it would break the "damsel in distress" dynamic she had with Goku.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball Movie #9 reference?

God, I screamed so much at this shot. I don't know if it was Storyboard Artist & Episode Director Karasawa Kazuya's idea or what, but having Gokuu visibly toss off his top like this? Mama mia! This is our second look at Super Saiyan 3 Gokuu with a shirt on, right after One Piece Episode #590 back in 2013, when Shida Naotoshi animated him using that form.

Speaking of Shida, I believe I spotted him in the next episode preview, so I'm curious if he'll be providing a long scene or not. Shida hasn't appeared since Episode #8 and while he's been busy on other series, with One Piece not currently broadcasting, I am curious if he's had more time to do a huge scene for Dragon Ball Daima Episode #20?

This continues the trend of Goku stripping to all his foes except Cell, Cell gets no tiddies.

Very sad indeed.

Actually, Majin Buu only got to see Gokuu's blue undershirt.

[omaro34]

Goku telling Piccolo to hit Gomah in the back of the head after finding an opening? I doubt that will work. He hasn't contributed much to this series to be honest.

Bulma threatening Vegeta that she'll never bath with him again was unexpected in a good way haha.

[Zephyr]

The Funny:
The Tertian Oculus' weakness. Vegeta liking to take baths with Bulma, to the point that he will zip away from the fight. Goku wanting to be the one to fight, rather than be the one to hit the back of Gomah's head.

Dende growing in Panzy's arms and her dropping him was something I hoped would happen after last week, and this episode delivered. Goku finally saying Glorio's name right came across to me as "Goku's been taking the piss this entire time".

With them turning back into adults, and fighting, and fighting using multiple forms, my Sparking Zero DLC speculation has been completely upended.

---

The Cool:
Adult Goku looked so Nakatsuru I thought I was looking at my Dragon Boxes.

Goku ripping his shirt off for the transformation was cool. Also forgot to mention last week: despite my complaints about how Super Saiyan 4 looks (mainly the lack of a belt and the presence of wristbands), I liked seeing the hair change a bit during the transformation. Ever since I was a kid I'd always tried to imagine what the actual transformation from 3 to 4 might look like, and both of these eps delivered, a little bit?

Them finally turning back into adults, fighting as adults, and using their new forms as adults is cool, but....

---

The Gripes:
....as others have said, it just really makes me wish they hadn't used the "turn into kids" angle in the first place. You can have Goku go on a comedic adventure, use the nyoibo, and turn into a furry monkey man, all while having a fully grown adult body. I promise.

Very odd to see everyone react to Super Saiyan 3 and 4 like they're new big things. Definitely would have been better if both had been saved for this episode. No reason that Vegeta couldn't have been written to be able to defeat the Tamagami as Super Saiyan 2, and/or for Neva to have simply given Goku a "potential unleashed" thing last week that only now manifested as him being able to reach Super Saiyan 4.

While Goku looked like my Dragon Boxes, Vegeta looked like his Battle of Gods character design sheet. Also, man, Horikawa sounded rough.

As others have mentioned, them talking about stamina issues while Dende is right there....Daima's really trying to have as many of GT's mistakes and as few of its strengths as possible.

Also, yeah, it doesn't seem like there's really time for the Fusion Bugs to come into play now? Very odd choice.

At this point Glorio's relationship with the rest of the group is probably the closest to an actual narrative throughline that Daima has, but it was definitely way too much in the background. I'm all for subtlety and subtext, but this could have had at least a little more consistent lip service, and Glorio himself could have been at least a little more prominent of a character throughout. Perhaps if this wasn't 20 episodes long, and all of the scenes with him were still there, he would have stood out more. Any reworking of this show would probably best prioritize him and his 'arc'.

People can continue to ask "why doesn't Goku use Super Saiyan 4 against Beerus?" and "why aren't Kaioshin and Kibito fused in Battle of Gods?" until the cows come home. They still mentioned "Universe 7", and showed us Gowasu and the other Kaioshin from the Tournament of Power when they absolutely did not have to. Toriyama, Iyoku, Kakihara, and the rest do not care about plotholes.

[Galan007]

So this series will almost have to end with a mind-wipe of some sort if it is to remain canon to DBS, right? Because the stories can't really mesh at all if the heroes always knew SS4 was a thing by the DBS-era.

[SupremeKai25]

So this series will almost have to end with a mind-wipe of some sort if it is to remain canon to DBS, right? Because the stories can't really mesh at all if the heroes always knew SS4 was a thing by the DBS-era.

Toriyama NEVER cared about continuity, not even in the original series.

Let me remind you that the Buu saga revealed there was this uber super duper god, Kaioshin, who could single-handedly crush Freeza. Wow, great continuity, right?

Why would Toriyama suddenly start to care about continuity? Goku could have used SSJ4 when he fought Beerus, but he didn't. Just like Kaioshin could have ended Freeza's evil empire (that was massacring/enslaving innocent everywhere), but he never did.

[AliTheZombie13]

They still mentioned "Universe 7", and showed us Gowasu and the other Kaioshin from the Tournament of Power when they absolutely did not have to. Toriyama, Iyoku, Kakihara, and the rest do not care about plotholes.

I mean, they also show a bunch of "non-canon" characters in Super's latest chapter, so...
Not saying this means or doesn't mean Daima is connected to Super, but if "Character showed up here" is an indication of continuity link, then GT definitely happened in Super's timeline.

[Cybersai]

Let me remind you that the Buu saga revealed there was this uber super duper god, Kaioshin, who could single-handedly crush Freeza. Wow, great continuity, right?

I mean, that's not a continuity error. Just because one mortal being was so powerful at the time that they were taking over half the known universe by then...isn't really something the Kai's should intervene on. They're supposed to be neutral. Beerus knew about Freeza too and let him do whatever he wanted.

[super michael]

We got to see adult SSJ3 Vegeta and adult SSJ4 Goku that was cool, plus Goku can turn SSJ4 at will. The fight was really cool.

Although if they were damaged from all the damage that they took as kids, why didn't Dende and Neva heal them.

[Luso Saiyan]

So this series will almost have to end with a mind-wipe of some sort if it is to remain canon to DBS, right? Because the stories can't really mesh at all if the heroes always knew SS4 was a thing by the DBS-era.

We don't even know what it is to begin with.

Let me remind you that the Buu saga revealed there was this uber super duper god, Kaioshin, who could single-handedly crush Freeza. Wow, great continuity, right?

False equivalence. The existence of Kaioshin doesn't disrupt continuity, and there is a continuity in Dragon Ball, which means that Toriyama took it into account when making the story.

[Mr Baggins]

So this series will almost have to end with a mind-wipe of some sort if it is to remain canon to DBS, right?

It's certainly "canon" in the sense that it's a Toriyama-endorsed continuation, like Super, but I honestly would not be surprised at this point if it's also just its own independent timeline/continuity in the same setting. And hey, that's fine!