Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 19 - Official Discussion Thread

[Basaku]

The only way they can fit everything into 1 episode is if Goku wipes the floor with Gomah within the first 8-10 minutes of the ep. Then the last 10 minutes are the resolution for everything, we still don't know what Arinsu or Neva will do after Gomah is defeated.

Well it ain't like they can do anything of importance till Black Freeza arc anyway lol, rest of Super already happened without them

[ZombieVito]

There's only 20 minutes left.

There's just not enough time for a new fusion since they still need to do a resolution after the fight.

[Vegetto95]

Jesus Christ, this thread has gone on for a whopping seven pages now and at least 60-70% of the posts have been less about the episode itself, and instead focused entirely on "Gee golly gosh, I sure do wonder how Daima's gonna undo literally everything it's done so far in the one episode it had remaining just so it can line up perfectly as a prequel to Super, which I assume it will entirely due to my own personal wiki headcanon".

Like, seriously... someone PLEASE show me ANY official statement from Toriyama, Iyoku, literally ANYONE from Tōei, etc. that Daima is a prequel to Super? Because I'm preeeetty sure that the ONLY reason everyone keeps assuming that is because everyone keeps assuming it. You know... despite the fact that Daima has contradicted Super about 400 times over by now lmao

And I really gotta wonder... WHY?? WHY is is SO. DAMN. IMPORTANT to you guys that it be the case? I definitely remember a LITTLE bit of that discourse back when Super first started waaaaay back in 2015 where some people were theorizing about how it could still line up as a prequel to GT... but obviously that didn't last long and for the past 9+ years the entire fandom has been perfectly content with the obvious truth that GT and Super are their own entirely separate continuities.

Soooo... WHYYYY is it now all of a sudden so goddamn difficult for the fandom to accept that maybe, JUST MAYBE... the EXACT SAME dynamic exists between Super and Daima? That JUST MAYBE Daima is no more a prequel to Super than Super was to GT? (Not even to mention the fact that when Super first debuted a entire decade ago, it alone had THREE contradicting continuities amongst the movies, TV anime, and manga). Why is it somehow such a bad thing that Daima is to Super as Super is to GT?

But instead, I see a FUCKTON of people theorizing about how the final episode of Daima will do some bullshit like "Have Neva erase everyone's memories" or "Have Kibito and Shin merge together just so they can be split apart again in Super" or "Explain how Gokū will never be able to access Discount Super Saiyan 4 again", and like... do y'all NOT FUCKING REALIZE how GODAWFUL, anticlimactic, and unsatisfactory literally ANY of that would be?? WHY in the absolute fuck is it more important to you people for Daima to fall over its own ass to line itself up with the beginning of a show from TEN WHOLE YEARS AGO than to have a satisfactory ending to its OWN story?

Why can't we just, you know? Like Daima for Daima? Or hey, NOT like Daima if you prefer. God knows, I myself have PLENTY of problems with Daima. It's NOWHERE NEAR as bad as Super (which is the lowest of low bars IMO), but it... hasn't exactly been particularly good either. It's... fine, I guess. Not terrible, but DEFINITELY not great. It's ABSOLUTELY still missing a LOT of elements that made the original 80s-90s run of the franchise so incredibly funtastic. BUT. Whatever myriad issues I have with Daima ALL have 100,000% to do SOLELY with these 19 and counting episodes of Daima itself and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER AT BLOODY AAAAALL to do with some completely made up and wholly unsupported preconceived notion that it's somehow a prequel to Super.

Especially considering that Dragon Ball has NEVER, EVER in its OVER FORTY YEARS of existence given a single flyin' fuckin' hoohah about "canon" this or "non-canon" that. I mean, what with the original manga, the DB/DBZ/GT TV anime and all their original "filler" material and specials, the traffic and fire safety PSAs, the 3 DB movies, 13 DBZ movies, and 10th anniversary movie, the FOUR different versions of Plan to Destroy the Saiyans, the Terebikko game, the three different versions of Super, the two versions of Episode of Bardock, My Circumstances of Being Reincarnated as Yamcha, Xenoverse, the (at least) three different versions of Heroes, Legends, Dokkan Battle, FighterZ, Fusions, all the other little brief what-if stories from games like Budokai, Sparking!, Ultimate Blast, Supersonic Warriors, Harukanaru Densetsu, Kai: Saiyan Invasion, etc. etc. etc... but NOOOO, it's somehow just ABSOLUTELY OUT OF THE QUESTION that Daima be the 400 billionth separate, standalone continuity in the Dragon Ball franchise. Gimme a break, man.

Is the 10th anniversary film suddenly terrible because it isn't perfectly "canon" to My Circumstances of Being Reincarnated as Yamcha? Is the Traffic Safety PSA suddenly irredeemable because it doesn't line up as a perfect prequel to the multiple Hatchiyacks ending of the Playdia version of Plan to Destroy the Saiyans? Yeaaaah.... kiiiinda sounds like a pretty fuckin' silly, nonsensical, asinine argument, doesn't it?

"But, but... Vegetto95! Toriyama was heavily directly involved with Daima! He said so himself!! So OBVIOUSLY that means it MUST be canon to Daima!!" Yeeaaahhh... goooonna letchu in on a liiiiittle secret here, ladies n gents... Toriyama ALSO wrote and drew, for one example... Neko Majin. Show o' hands, folks... is there ANYONE out there in the year of our Dende 2025 that still SERIOUSLY thinks that Neko Majin is a "canonical" sequel to the original manga? C'mon, people, don't be shy! Anyone? Hmm??

Yeah. Exactly.

P.S. That's NOT a knock on Neko Majin, BTW. I LOVE Neko Majin and find it to be adorably hilarious and hilariously adorable.

P.S.S. That'd be like saying Pink or Kajika or The Adventures of Tongpoo or Chobit! or Tomato the Cutesy Gumshoe are all "canon" to Dragon Ball simply due to them all being written and illustrated by Toriyama. Which, if anyone SERIOUSLY believes that... PFFFFFFT.

P.S.S.S. Speaking of adorably hilarious, Vegeta's reaction to Blooma's bathtime threat was absolutely the funniest part of this series so far and ALMOST single-handedly makes this entire disjointed mess of a show worth it. Rest of the episode, though? Meh. After four whole episodes of it, I'm KIIINDA really fuckin' tired of repetitive fighting consisting entirely of "Punch punch pew pew" that doesn't move the story along one single inch, regardless of how gorgeously animated it is.

[Rory]

That echoing scream at the tail-end of the Super Saiyan 4 power-up.... Man, sometimes, Nozawa really still has it.

[TKA]

Vegeta, in his water form, canonically fux.

That came so far out of left field that I burst out laughing, rewound to make sure I didn't misread it, and then made me forgive the last 6 episodes for being just boring action scenes ad infinitum.

I dare say this one gag has made all of Daima super worth it.

[Izanagi]

Vegeta being a gooner was definitely not something I expected in my bingo card. This is probably the funniest thing that came out of Daima of all things lmao

[Lord Beerus]

This episode was the vindication I needed to solidify my opinion that turning the cast into children was the most pointless and reductive narrative decision has made in many years. Making the cast children didn't service them as characters or the narrative in any interesting manner. You could have easily had Daima with the main cast as adults and nothing would have really changed fundamentally.

Glorio feels like such a botched character. I'm all for subtle storytelling. But you actually need to tell a story. Throughout Daima there was never really any kind of introspective regarding Glorio as a character to make his conflict of interest in the episode compelling or at least intriguing to watch. He reminds me in a way of #16 from the original series, in the sense that there was an interesting base for a compelling character to be written, but for whatever reason there was no effort to build on that base to make a potentially multi-layered character. Instead we get some characterisation haphazardly thrown in at the 11th hour in a hail-mary effort to get a cheap emotional moment out of the narrative. It's just not good storytelling.

Seeing SSJ3 Vegeta again as an adult still did nothing for me, and the design remains hideous. But man... Ryō Horikawa, bless his soul, sounded really rough. I think age and many years of smoking are starting to catch up with him.

Gomah losing all of her personality since transforming has been sad to watch. It's made the final battle lack a lot of interesting character dynamics.

Bulma threatening to not let Vegeta bath with her again if he didn't stop fighting and Vegeta immediately declaring his fight was over was a hilarious gag and also wonderfully displayed how intimate Vegeta is with Bulma.

Daima recreating Goku going from SSJ 1 to 3 reminded me a lot of Super recreating the movement of Vegeta blowing himself against Toppo in the Tournament Of Power. It's such a vapid and hollow "homage" that completely misses the point of why the original scene worked so well within its narrative context.

Goku just transforming at will in SSJ4, just makes everything about the initial appearance of the form in the previous episode seem so haphazard and meaningless. Goku was literally just given the form to begin with and can now tap into it at will with little effort and no explanation as to how he was able to do it. This is one of the transformations in the entire series with how poorly implemented it was into the narrative and that is saying a lot. And while I still hate the design of it, God bless Yuya Takahashi for trying his damndest to make SSJ4 look as sexy as possible.

Certainly a decent episode, but this all feels too little too late.

[ZeroNeonix]

Okay, so I enjoyed this episode. Bulma reigning in her man by threatening to end their shared bath time was hilarious. Goku's callback to the Buu arc at first felt very pointless. It's like, "Okay, Goku. We know what Super Saiyan 3 is. We JUST saw Vegeta use it, and YOU used it against him earlier this fight." But then he's like...



Then I was like, "Oh! That's what you're doing." I feel like this would have felt more impactful if this was the first time Goku was using it. I know we didn't technically know if Goku could transform into the state without help, but eh. At the same time, not getting to see the transformation in Goku's child form would have been a waste. Maybe they should have done this call back then instead of now. I don't know. Maybe if they weren't writing this show when they were in the middle of animating it, they could have figured out how to make this work better. lol

Also, I know it's implied that the characters are weaker in their child forms, but base form Vegeta, with battle damage, being stronger than child Goku at Super Saiyan 3? I didn't think the different in power was THAT extreme. It's whatever, though. Not a big deal.

So, only one episode left, right? I hope they don't spend the entire episode fighting. They had such a slow pace at the beginning of the show, and it would be a shame if they rushed the resolution at the end. We still have those fusion bugs, if they're ever going to use those. Maybe after Goku and Piccolo's plan goes South, they'll find and use those, but they don't have much time left for that.

[sunsetshimmer]

Good to see adult version of that form so we can actually compare him to OG SSJ4. Original one still looks superior, i guess you just can't compete against that, but this one is also good. I will say new SSJ4 is easily the worst looking out of all versions (OG SSJ4 and Limit Breaker from SDBH) but they are all badass. The best things about OG form design are still there.

We still didn't got its name, but Goku will probably say it in next episode.

Also that transformation sequence was epic as hell, easily one of the best in entire franchise. The way Goku rips his shirt off and screams + how he emerged from behind rocks was really good

There's only 20 minutes left.

There's just not enough time for a new fusion since they still need to do a resolution after the fight.

DBS ending was literally 2 minutes of music video and few minutes of dialogues during ToP ending sequence before that. I mean half of episode was still battle with Jiren.

Also OG Gogeta had like 2 minutes of screentime? It was enough to put him in games, become fan favorite and even people to assume his whole personality and say that GT Gogeta is nothing like that 2 minute character with 2 lines of dialogue

So yeah, everything is possible. Although i doubt it will end with fusion, but we will see. It went all out with fanservice at the very end so we might expect everything. And it's not like they have to make 10 minutes long followup scene that ties Daima with Super or whatever.

[perucho1990]

That echoing scream at the tail-end of the Super Saiyan 4 power-up.... Man, sometimes, Nozawa really still has it.

In my opinion the whole transformation was imo at least up there with Goku unlocking SSJ4 in GT, Goku unlocking Ultra Instinct in Super, Goku unlocking SSJ3 In Z

[ZeroNeonix]

Oh, yeah. I forgot to say that I like how Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta consistently fights with his arms crossed. I hope when this official version of his transformation appears in video games, they keep that.

So, should we take bets and whether or not the next episode has Goku and Vegeta fuse? They wouldn't be Gogeta or Vegito, if they use the bugs. But, as everyone in the party seems to forget, they have Potara. They could use them. It would just seem like we got a bit cheated if they don't use the bugs at all. If they use the bugs, I feel like their name would be Vegarot. Maybe Kakageta. If they want to go all out, they could use BOTH the Potara and the bugs. Let Goku and Vegeta become Vegito and have the Majin fuse when they find the bugs. I feel like everyone's been speculating that this would happen for a while now, but with the limited remaining run time, I don't know... May not get any fusions.

[goku the krump dancer]

I honestly think Dragon Ball and child main heroes unless it’s for a legit one off story are a THING OF THE PAST.

I think it can work if it's actually set in the past, but not after Z.

Maybe, but there’s no big selling point there. Generally speaking people don’t wanna see a watered down version of the Dragon Crew during the 22nd Budokai era going on some random escapade to find some thing or beat some guy that won’t be really relevant ever afterwards. Resources I’ll be wasted on a pointless story.

[Mr Baggins]

I feel like this would have felt more impactful if this was the first time Goku was using it.

Agreed. This is a critique I can get behind, if any.

I love that we got a fun twist on an existing monologue, but imagine the sheer mind-fuckery this would have caused if it was a first-time reveal – and it would have made as much sense, because if Vegeta can offscreen Super Saiyan 3 then Goku could have obtained the next best thing in the same timespan.

But beggars can't be choosers, and what we got was still pretty good. Both of the Saiyans had great moments this week.

[Extreme_kai]

This is proably the best Daima episode by far in terms of action, visual design, just raw emotion. It's amazing how much more engaged I felt watching the fights because the characters returned to their adult bodies. The rule of cool just doesn't work as well compared to when the characters are adults. I'm still lukewarm on ssj3 Vegeta being canon, but even I cannot deny he looks cool asf in this episode, the hair even looks better now. The biggest letdown of the episode(and maybe the entire series) Is Arinsu. While Arinsu herself doesn't appear to be any more of a physical threat than Degasu was, I was still expecting her to send Duu or Kuu after Glorio and potentially kill him. All she did was say "You're fired" Dafaq was that? Even the whole rushed backstory idea of how she saved Glorio from the 3rd demon realm came too little too late. We know the 3rd demon realm is oppressive, but how did she save him? I'm just disappointed with Arinsu and Glorio's whole angle. Congrats Daima staff, you did make me feel a little bit for Glorio, I just wish we could've learned a bit more about him. I'll admit, the book scene with Duu and Arinsu was charming, but I just feel her character lacks that gravitas that would make her memorable. It does seem to me that It's setting up for Arinsu to be the Supreme Demon King in the end, but we shall see.



All in all, an amazing episode and everything people wanted from a new Dragonball series. Just seeing an Adult Goku go through his super saiyan transformations made me go "This is what the people wanted! I give this episode a 9/10. These last two episodes might be goated imo, and while it won't redeem the rest of Daima in my eyes, I could still see myself watching episodes 19-20 in isolation. Also, the fact that the only thing Bulma had to do to get Vegeta to stop fighting is not bathe with him is hilarious. I'm sure she gives him the royal treatment for sure lol. Also, sorry Vegeta fans, But Goku looks 10x times cooler in ssj3. As for ssj4...Does it look better as an adult? Sure, but still fails in comparison to Gt's version. I was hoping they would fix the arm things, but alas, they're still there.

[Extreme_kai]

This episode confirmed to me that keeping the cast in ugly, chibi kid designs for 98% of the series was one of the worst creative decisions in the history of the franchise.

It's no surprise that Daima fight scenes are much more enjoyable when the character designs are actually good and the characters look cool.

The "kid-adventure" part of Daima will probably be memory holed, people will only talk about the last 3 episodes, the Tamagami fights and the Buu saga flashbacks when talking about Daima a year from now.

100% THIS^
All I was thinking through the episode was "Is this really what they've been depriving us of this entire time?" I would have killed to see such quality animation and art in DBS. This was a visual feast that was hampered by awful toddler character designs. It's truly a shame that Daima will likely only be remembered fondly by 3 episodes. I can only see myself rewatching the last two episodes isolated from the prior 18. With over 18k likes currently on Crunchyroll, compared to the 4-8k you'd normally see on previous episodes. The fans are agreeing with us.

[Supersaiyan69]

Vegeta being a simp for Bulma makes so much sense lol, a man with that much pride must have T levels through the roof.
Gokus transformation from SSJ3 to 4 was crazy,
Top 5 transformation sequences imo.

[PrinceVegetto]

Jesus Christ, this thread has gone on for a whopping seven pages now and at least 60-70% of the posts have been less about the episode itself, and instead focused entirely on "Gee golly gosh, I sure do wonder how Daima's gonna undo literally everything it's done so far in the one episode it had remaining just so it can line up perfectly as a prequel to Super, which I assume it will entirely due to my own personal wiki headcanon".

Like, seriously... someone PLEASE show me ANY official statement from Toriyama, Iyoku, literally ANYONE from Tōei, etc. that Daima is a prequel to Super? Because I'm preeeetty sure that the ONLY reason everyone keeps assuming that is because everyone keeps assuming it. You know... despite the fact that Daima has contradicted Super about 400 times over by now lmao

And I really gotta wonder... WHY?? WHY is is SO. DAMN. IMPORTANT to you guys that it be the case? I definitely remember a LITTLE bit of that discourse back when Super first started waaaaay back in 2015 where some people were theorizing about how it could still line up as a prequel to GT... but obviously that didn't last long and for the past 9+ years the entire fandom has been perfectly content with the obvious truth that GT and Super are their own entirely separate continuities.

Soooo... WHYYYY is it now all of a sudden so goddamn difficult for the fandom to accept that maybe, JUST MAYBE... the EXACT SAME dynamic exists between Super and Daima? That JUST MAYBE Daima is no more a prequel to Super than Super was to GT? (Not even to mention the fact that when Super first debuted a entire decade ago, it alone had THREE contradicting continuities amongst the movies, TV anime, and manga). Why is it somehow such a bad thing that Daima is to Super as Super is to GT?

Daima and Super are both made with heavy involvement from Toriyama unlike GT so both are therefore considered part of the modern main continuity.

That's why.

[fadeddreams5]

Jesus Christ, this thread has gone on for a whopping seven pages now and at least 60-70% of the posts have been less about the episode itself, and instead focused entirely on "Gee golly gosh, I sure do wonder how Daima's gonna undo literally everything it's done so far in the one episode it had remaining just so it can line up perfectly as a prequel to Super, which I assume it will entirely due to my own personal wiki headcanon".

Like, seriously... someone PLEASE show me ANY official statement from Toriyama, Iyoku, literally ANYONE from Tōei, etc. that Daima is a prequel to Super? Because I'm preeeetty sure that the ONLY reason everyone keeps assuming that is because everyone keeps assuming it. You know... despite the fact that Daima has contradicted Super about 400 times over by now lmao

And I really gotta wonder... WHY?? WHY is is SO. DAMN. IMPORTANT to you guys that it be the case? I definitely remember a LITTLE bit of that discourse back when Super first started waaaaay back in 2015 where some people were theorizing about how it could still line up as a prequel to GT... but obviously that didn't last long and for the past 9+ years the entire fandom has been perfectly content with the obvious truth that GT and Super are their own entirely separate continuities.

Soooo... WHYYYY is it now all of a sudden so goddamn difficult for the fandom to accept that maybe, JUST MAYBE... the EXACT SAME dynamic exists between Super and Daima? That JUST MAYBE Daima is no more a prequel to Super than Super was to GT? (Not even to mention the fact that when Super first debuted a entire decade ago, it alone had THREE contradicting continuities amongst the movies, TV anime, and manga). Why is it somehow such a bad thing that Daima is to Super as Super is to GT?

Daima and Super are both made with heavy involvement from Toriyama unlike GT so both are therefore considered part of the modern main continuity.

That's why.

I guess Dragon Ball Online must be part of it too.

[SSGpotota]

The bath joke has single-handedly saved the entire series for me, I forgive Daima for EVERYTHING.
I also love the transformation show-off call back!
When Goku took off his gi I felt goosebumps!
SSJ4 looks way better as an adult. This version of the transformation is starting to grow on me.
I can't say the same for adult SSJ3 Vegeta, he looked less goofy as a kid.

[Retan]

Was it ever explained why the vas for this series were changed outside of goku, I mean krillin, chi-chi,18, amongst others I dont think even had any lines out side of possibly 1 or 2 sentences. Was it just so people knew the old cast they grew up with was out outside of Nazowas (sp.).


Speaking which I think the new cast did a darn good job, to the point I forgot there was a new cast for most of the run.

Of course Goku, Gohan, and Goten will be the hardest to fill.