Kid Buu vs Buuhan(Article):

[Koitsukai]

Goku was just about to fuse with Mr. Satan, FOREVER, lol. This Kid Buu theory cannot hold any water, it's amazing.

[Peach]

Goku was just about to fuse with Mr. Satan, FOREVER, lol. This Kid Buu theory cannot hold any water, it's amazing.

^^^

He was desperate enough to do THAT for a boost.

Yet, crushes the earing with Kid Buu thinking he has a shot.

Lol

[Supaman9g]

Dan claims that he started with the assumption that Buuhan was the strongest and gradually realized that Kid Buu was the strongest as he continued his research.
I think this is a lie.
If it were true, how could he interpret this page as specifically referring to Majin Buu's Kid Buu form?




The original mistake at the very beginning of his analysis : the beginning is correct, but then…Dan completely misinterprets the end



When I pointed out his bias, he replied:



Once again, he has right in front of him the description of Buuhan as the most powerful form.
But he doesn't validate the point because the green section refers to Evil Buu in general. He believes that Evil Buu = Kid Buu.
So, he considers Buuhan and Kid Buu equal in the Chozenshuu (0.5 points each) and gives the point to Kid Buu in the Daizenshuu, where only the green section is present.
Except that when we zoom out, we get this :




Except that his response is completely off the mark.
Moreover, if we focus…
180 and 184 clearly mention the character of Majin Buu (evil), just like all his other battles, regardless of his form
But our dear Dan seems stuck on the idea that one form = one character.
I’ve only noticed this bias among pro-Kid Buu supporters

Below, he outright lies by distorting reality in favor of Kid Buu.
Here’s what he claims :


Starting from this :

The Daizenshuu 7 clearly indicates a slight decrease in power between the Kid Buu form and the Fat Buu form.

He considers this passage as proof that Buu’s power decreases when he absorbs the Shinjin.
While being pro-Buuhan??
No, he has always been pro-Kid Buu and uses fraudulent translations, confidently asserting that they support Kid Buu’s case.

Again…






Our friend Dan is a fraud who follows the sacred code of the Kid Buu-ists

[Hugo Boss]

Props for the patience and effort in breaking down all these inconsistencies. Another thing he ignores is Goku’s behavior throughout the series. Goku rarely suggests teaming up with Vegeta or fusing unless he genuinely believes he can’t handle the fight alone. This is a trait Toriyama consistently emphasizes whenever necessary, and it heavily contradicts the idea that Goku saw Kid Buu as the strongest version of Majin Buu.

[Supaman9g]

From my perspective, Dan has sided with the anime’s interpretation and tried to align the manga’s narrative with it. It would have been better to do the opposite, starting from what the manga conveys.


https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... riyama-qa/

Fact #1: We know that Toriyama's intention was to tell a simple story that could be understood by the vast majority of his readers.
Fact #2: We know that the vast majority of English-speaking, French-speaking, and even Japanese readers understood that Buuhan was the most powerful form.

Based on these two facts, the principle of parsimony allows us to evaluate what is most probable.
This is not the fallacy of appealing to the majority, as the reasoning also takes into account the author's intention.

There are two hypotheses: the minority interpretation (Kid Buu > Buuhan) and the majority interpretation (Buuhan > Kid Buu).

1/ If the minority is correct.
For this hypothesis to be true, we must assume:
That Toriyama intended to show Kid Buu > Buuhan but expressed it poorly or left a significant ambiguity.
That for almost 30 years, the vast majority of readers misunderstood his story.
That only a few readers, far more insightful than the rest of the world, managed to uncover the true message.
This hypothesis therefore relies on multiple assumptions: a writing error by Toriyama during the Buu arc, a widespread misunderstanding across the globe, and an "elite" group of readers with superior insight. While possible, this requires a much more complex interpretative effort than Hypothesis 2.

2/ If the majority is correct.
For this hypothesis, we only need to assume:
That Toriyama told his story clearly and understandably.
That the majority of readers correctly interpreted the narrative as intended.
This hypothesis is far simpler and aligns better with what we know about Toriyama and his storytelling approach.

[Koitsukai]

You could even use Daima to see how Toriyama makes Goku approaches fights.

If he is outclassed (Gomah -as kids, Super Buu), they fight together and do whatever they have to.
If he is not outclassed (Gomah -as adults, Kid Buu), he fights alone.

If that wasn't clear enough, Goku even says the following before breaking the potara: "Buu is no longer fused, it'd be unfair if we fuse to fight him".

[daniel1]

The issue here is that your assumption about the article’s source is demonstrably incorrect. The weekly character showcases pull from multiple sources (manga, anime, movies, OVAs, etc.), not just the anime. The reason the South Kaioshin showcase primarily uses anime images is simply because his manga appearance is limited to a single panel. That doesn’t mean South Kaioshin is an anime-exclusive character or that the article’s conclusions aren’t supported by the broader material.

The information the site uses in this one article is exclusively from the anime. Did I ever once claim the Southern Kaioshin is an anime exclusive character? Did I ever even insinuate or imply this even once? The answer is no. Please be serious if you're going to critique anything.

Kid Buu is definitely stronger in the anime continuity. There are 3 direct statements. You think that the anime is irrelevant because it's "filler", Toriyama was not involved, etc? Fine. I disagree. The anime is an official product and for me, it has legitimacy. You have no right to tell me that your opinion is objectively more correct than mine.

Keep in mind that the manga itself doesn't even have a strict separation from the anime. The people who argue the "different continuity" nonsense have no idea what they're talking about. "Anime only" characters have appeared in the original manga at least twice (Bardock and Dai Kaio). Toriyama changed the way he draws after watching the anime. He changed the way he wrote Goku after Nozawa got the role of Goku. There are many such examples.

It creates a few plot holes, probably, but so what? It's not the first or the last plot hole in Dragon Ball.

The Buu Saga alone is rife with plot holes.

The article writer reverts to "head canon-ing" to justify how Super Buu (Gottenks absorbed) might not be the strongest and how this line might be incorrect, even though Buu is directly stating that he's the strongest here.

This is a perfect example of someone who doesn't understand what I actually wrote. I provided two sources that confirm Majin Buu is affected by the personalities of the people he absorbs. Everyone always latches onto one part of "past, present, and future." Sometimes it's future, and you're using "past." For one, what he actually says is closer to this: "This very moment shall never appear again, even in the future... The birth of the strongest Majin!" If you accept that Buuhan is stronger than Buutenks, which I do, this sentence is objectively false. I actually explained this.

The readability of the article becomes so convoluted and confusing after this point.

It's CEFR C1/C2 and over an 11th grade reading level. It's not for everyone and I accept that.

The narrator and out of universe material further confuse people by saying Kid Buu is the most dangerous. Dangerous, not more powerful.

No, most of them are pretty explicit when they say "strongest," "most powerful," etc.

If your conclusion about a story relies on claiming that characters are straight-up lying without anything in said story actually saying they're lying, then it should be a pretty big sign that you're on the wrong track.

In the Buu Saga alone: Goku "lied" about not being able to defeat Fat Buu, Dende "lied" about how long the Dragon Balls will take to recover, Goku "lied" about Kid Buu not being able to reach them, and #17 "lied" about not hearing Goku's voice in a long time.

Secondly, Kid Buu is never mentioned as the most dangerous, but rather as the most troublesome or most difficult.

This is also spoken by the Elder Kaioshin, who has never seen nor heard of Kid Buu. He was asking Kibitoshin this question for confirmation.

when not even Good Buu knows of the existence of the pure form.

This is possible, but he only says two sentences to Kid Buu. "I hate you. Don't bully Satan."

over the actual narrative arc and intent

This argument assumes Goku's wish and Uub don't exist. Goku continued to train for 10 years just to face a reincarnation of Kid Buu. The "narrative arc and intent" here are clear. It also ignores everything the Super manga has shown us with Uub.

He still said he was the strongest. There is no indication that Buutenks is lying.

So you believe Buutenks is stronger than Buuhan. Got it.

Why didn't Goku charge up Super Saiyan 3 all the way before coming to Earth to confront Buutenks?

So you're asking why Goku didn't let the Earth blow up? If he arrived even seconds later, there wouldn't have been an Earth to teleport to.

Dan claims that he started with the assumption that Buuhan was the strongest and gradually realized that Kid Buu was the strongest as he continued his research.

This is true. You are also a stalker at this point. You understand this is why I blocked you on Discord, right?

how could he interpret this page as specifically referring to Majin Buu's Kid Buu form?

I don't reference this page even once.

Once again, he has right in front of him the description of Buuhan as the most powerful form.

Let me be clear and direct with you here since you are a stalker: You don't understand what I wrote because it's in a language you don't understand well. You show all of these screenshots, but none of them are helping your argument. The whole point of this debate is that the forms are distinct and can be measured against each other.

But our dear Dan

Creepy.

fraudulent translations

Such as...?

Our friend Dan is a fraud who follows the sacred code of the Kid Buu-ists

You are obsessed and it's unhealthy. Get help.

Goku rarely suggests teaming up with Vegeta

He literally suggested they team up to fight Fat Buu. I will add this to the article.

and it heavily contradicts the idea that Goku saw Kid Buu as the strongest version of Majin Buu.

Goku DIDN'T see him as the strongest until he actually fought him. There are no contradictions here.

Fact #2: We know that the vast majority of English-speaking, French-speaking, and even Japanese readers understood that Buuhan was the most powerful form.

There is literally no way to measure this. We can't know what most fans think. There's no global referendum on Majin Buu's forms.

There are two hypotheses

This is an appeal to the masses and there are several major issues with your reasoning.
1) The majority opinion =/= authorial intent. I don't know why you would even assume this to be the case. Majority opinions are frequently wrong. Authorial intent can help be established through guidebooks, etc. It's not a popularity contest.
2) Your entire caricature in "hypothesis 1" is an obvious strawman. There's no secret group of elite readers. It's simply about analyzing all of the official data that exists.
3) The entire premise of your argument is circular reasoning. Toriyama tells simple stories -> SOME fans understood Buuhan to be the strongest -> this means Toriyama must have intended that. How do we know he intended that? Because he tells simple stories. How do we know he tells simple stories? Because SOME fans think Buuhan is the strongest.
4) Toriyama's storytelling is not always "clear and understandable." Did you even read the Android Saga? How many times has Bardock's story been retconned now?
5) You are completely misapplying Occam's Razor. Occam's Razor doesn't mean "the majority opinion is right" or in your case, "the people in my personal bubble are right." The simplest explanation is not necessarily the popular opinion. Saying "Kid Buu is the strongest" aligns with every enemy in Dragon Ball and its sequels all being defeated at their absolute strongest and it aligns with dozens and dozens of sources confirming that. This is Occam's Razor.

You are not making a legitimate counter-argument. You are using a logical fallacy.

If he is not outclassed (Gomah -as adults, Kid Buu), he fights alone.

There's no overarching principle to follow here. Goku was outclassed by and didn't ask anyone to jump: old Piccolo Daimao, Vegeta, Freeza, #19, Cell, and Kid Buu. The others just step in because he would have died otherwise. Goku frequently overestimates his strength and needs to be bailed out by others.

[Peach]

The issue here is that your assumption about the article’s source is demonstrably incorrect. The weekly character showcases pull from multiple sources (manga, anime, movies, OVAs, etc.), not just the anime. The reason the South Kaioshin showcase primarily uses anime images is simply because his manga appearance is limited to a single panel. That doesn’t mean South Kaioshin is an anime-exclusive character or that the article’s conclusions aren’t supported by the broader material.

The information the site uses in this one article is exclusively from the anime. Did I ever once claim the Southern Kaioshin is an anime exclusive character? Did I ever even insinuate or imply this even once? The answer is no. Please be serious if you're going to critique anything.

Kid Buu is definitely stronger in the anime continuity. There are 3 direct statements. You think that the anime is irrelevant because it's "filler", Toriyama was not involved, etc? Fine. I disagree. The anime is an official product and for me, it has legitimacy. You have no right to tell me that your opinion is objectively more correct than mine.

Keep in mind that the manga itself doesn't even have a strict separation from the anime. The people who argue the "different continuity" nonsense have no idea what they're talking about. "Anime only" characters have appeared in the original manga at least twice (Bardock and Dai Kaio). Toriyama changed the way he draws after watching the anime. He changed the way he wrote Goku after Nozawa got the role of Goku. There are many such examples.

It creates a few plot holes, probably, but so what? It's not the first or the last plot hole in Dragon Ball.

The Buu Saga alone is rife with plot holes.

The article writer reverts to "head canon-ing" to justify how Super Buu (Gottenks absorbed) might not be the strongest and how this line might be incorrect, even though Buu is directly stating that he's the strongest here.

This is a perfect example of someone who doesn't understand what I actually wrote. I provided two sources that confirm Majin Buu is affected by the personalities of the people he absorbs. Everyone always latches onto one part of "past, present, and future." Sometimes it's future, and you're using "past." For one, what he actually says is closer to this: "This very moment shall never appear again, even in the future... The birth of the strongest Majin!" If you accept that Buuhan is stronger than Buutenks, which I do, this sentence is objectively false. I actually explained this.

The readability of the article becomes so convoluted and confusing after this point.

It's CEFR C1/C2 and over an 11th grade reading level. It's not for everyone and I accept that.

The narrator and out of universe material further confuse people by saying Kid Buu is the most dangerous. Dangerous, not more powerful.

No, most of them are pretty explicit when they say "strongest," "most powerful," etc.

If your conclusion about a story relies on claiming that characters are straight-up lying without anything in said story actually saying they're lying, then it should be a pretty big sign that you're on the wrong track.

In the Buu Saga alone: Goku "lied" about not being able to defeat Fat Buu, Dende "lied" about how long the Dragon Balls will take to recover, Goku "lied" about Kid Buu not being able to reach them, and #17 "lied" about not hearing Goku's voice in a long time.

Secondly, Kid Buu is never mentioned as the most dangerous, but rather as the most troublesome or most difficult.

This is also spoken by the Elder Kaioshin, who has never seen nor heard of Kid Buu. He was asking Kibitoshin this question for confirmation.

when not even Good Buu knows of the existence of the pure form.

This is possible, but he only says two sentences to Kid Buu. "I hate you. Don't bully Satan."

over the actual narrative arc and intent

This argument assumes Goku's wish and Uub don't exist. Goku continued to train for 10 years just to face a reincarnation of Kid Buu. The "narrative arc and intent" here are clear. It also ignores everything the Super manga has shown us with Uub.

He still said he was the strongest. There is no indication that Buutenks is lying.

So you believe Buutenks is stronger than Buuhan. Got it.

Why didn't Goku charge up Super Saiyan 3 all the way before coming to Earth to confront Buutenks?

So you're asking why Goku didn't let the Earth blow up? If he arrived even seconds later, there wouldn't have been an Earth to teleport to.

Dan claims that he started with the assumption that Buuhan was the strongest and gradually realized that Kid Buu was the strongest as he continued his research.

This is true. You are also a stalker at this point. You understand this is why I blocked you on Discord, right?

how could he interpret this page as specifically referring to Majin Buu's Kid Buu form?

I don't reference this page even once.

Once again, he has right in front of him the description of Buuhan as the most powerful form.

Let me be clear and direct with you here since you are a stalker: You don't understand what I wrote because it's in a language you don't understand well. You show all of these screenshots, but none of them are helping your argument. The whole point of this debate is that the forms are distinct and can be measured against each other.

But our dear Dan

Creepy.

fraudulent translations

Such as...?

Our friend Dan is a fraud who follows the sacred code of the Kid Buu-ists

You are obsessed and it's unhealthy. Get help.

Goku rarely suggests teaming up with Vegeta

He literally suggested they team up to fight Fat Buu. I will add this to the article.

and it heavily contradicts the idea that Goku saw Kid Buu as the strongest version of Majin Buu.

Goku DIDN'T see him as the strongest until he actually fought him. There are no contradictions here.

Fact #2: We know that the vast majority of English-speaking, French-speaking, and even Japanese readers understood that Buuhan was the most powerful form.

There is literally no way to measure this. We can't know what most fans think. There's no global referendum on Majin Buu's forms.

There are two hypotheses

This is an appeal to the masses and there are several major issues with your reasoning.
1) The majority opinion =/= authorial intent. I don't know why you would even assume this to be the case. Majority opinions are frequently wrong. Authorial intent can help be established through guidebooks, etc. It's not a popularity contest.
2) Your entire caricature in "hypothesis 1" is an obvious strawman. There's no secret group of elite readers. It's simply about analyzing all of the official data that exists.
3) The entire premise of your argument is circular reasoning. Toriyama tells simple stories -> SOME fans understood Buuhan to be the strongest -> this means Toriyama must have intended that. How do we know he intended that? Because he tells simple stories. How do we know he tells simple stories? Because SOME fans think Buuhan is the strongest.
4) Toriyama's storytelling is not always "clear and understandable." Did you even read the Android Saga? How many times has Bardock's story been retconned now?
5) You are completely misapplying Occam's Razor. Occam's Razor doesn't mean "the majority opinion is right" or in your case, "the people in my personal bubble are right." The simplest explanation is not necessarily the popular opinion. Saying "Kid Buu is the strongest" aligns with every enemy in Dragon Ball and its sequels all being defeated at their absolute strongest and it aligns with dozens and dozens of sources confirming that. This is Occam's Razor.

You are not making a legitimate counter-argument. You are using a logical fallacy.

If he is not outclassed (Gomah -as adults, Kid Buu), he fights alone.

There's no overarching principle to follow here. Goku was outclassed by and didn't ask anyone to jump: old Piccolo Daimao, Vegeta, Freeza, #19, Cell, and Kid Buu. The others just step in because he would have died otherwise. Goku frequently overestimates his strength and needs to be bailed out by others.

Please explain why Goku was desperate enough to seriously consider fusing with Mr. Satan to fight Buuhan, but not fuse at all for kid Buu.

And where in universe does it imply Buutenks is lying?

I’m seeing a lot of restating opinions and doubling down, but not discussing specific points people have brought up.

[Supaman9g]

My dear Dan,
You need to read carefully and understand what you are reading.
"Based on these two facts, the principle of parsimony allows us to evaluate what is most probable.
This is not the fallacy of appealing to the majority, as the reasoning also takes into account the author's intention."


I'll explain more precisely because you're making a real confusion.
An appeal to popularity becomes fallacious if one claims that the majority is right only because it is the majority.
However, in this case, the argument is not based solely on the popularity of the interpretation but also on its consistency with the author's stated intentions and the simplicity of the explanation.

That being said, if one were to say, "Since the majority believes this, it must necessarily be true," that would indeed be a fallacious appeal to popularity.


My argument is primarily based on the principle of parsimony rather than a mere appeal to the majority. It is, therefore, a legitimate application of Occam's razor, as long as it does not reduce the issue to a simple argument from collective authority.

However, it is always possible that the minority interpretation is more accurate despite its complexity. Parsimony is a useful heuristic tool, but it does not guarantee truth.

Thus, the argument based on the principle of parsimony is entirely relevant for assessing which interpretation is closest to the author's intent in the case of Dragon Ball.


Why am I using this argument?
Because pro-Kid Buu supporters like you overinterpret absolutely every narrative element in favor of your fan theory about Kid Buu. Since this is a fictional work, you will always be able to fall back on this strategy rather than put your ego aside and simply admit that you were wrong.

My argument is irrefutable because it settles the question.
You can keep defending your interpretation, but doing so means claiming that Toriyama failed to tell a simple and understandable story for the vast majority of his readers.

Peace be upon you.



[EDIT]
I almost forgot…
We can very clearly observe the strong preference for Buuhan on the largest French-speaking, English-speaking, and Japanese Dragon Ball forums. Platforms like the subreddit r/dragonball, which has over 2 million members, show overwhelming support for this interpretation. The same goes for Japanese forums, where this view also dominates.
Pro-Kid Buu supporters have such a dissident and minority interpretation that they are widely mocked on all dedicated forums.

There are also polls on social media with thousands of French- and English-speaking participants, clearly showing that Kid Buu is considered weaker than Buuhan or even Gohan—enough said.




If you dispute this point, then I’d like to know on what basis you could claim that the distribution of interpretations is any different.
Please don't bring up polls with very low participation or an unknown number of participants. Have some self-respect.


[EDIT 2]

Ooooh Dan… a lie… again

[Hugo Boss]

The information the site uses in this one article is exclusively from the anime. Did I ever once claim the Southern Kaioshin is an anime exclusive character? Did I ever even insinuate or imply this even once? The answer is no. Please be serious if you're going to critique anything.

First off, I never claimed that you said South Kaioshin is an anime-exclusive character. I was referring to the article itself, which titles his page as ‘South Supreme Kai from the Dragon Ball Z Anime!’, a format typically used for anime-only characters in other showcases. Your argument dismisses the page purely because of that title, even though we know these showcases pull from multiple sources. It feels like you’re disregarding the material just because you personally don’t think the manga supports South Kaioshin powering up Kid Buu. But that’s not an objective way to approach this.

He [Goku] literally suggested they team up to fight Fat Buu. I will add this to the article.
(…)
Goku DIDN'T see him [Kid Buu] as the strongest until he actually fought him. There are no contradictions here.

Actually, Goku suggested fusing with Vegeta before revealing SS3, when he said Vegeta was as strong as him. But with SS3, he admitted he could have beaten Fat Buu. He never once thought he could defeat Super Buu alone. With Kid Buu, it’s different. He outright said he could beat him after fighting him for a while. The problem wasn’t power, it was SS3’s energy consumption in a living body. If anything, it reinforces the idea that Goku only seeks help when he genuinely feels he can’t win alone.

[Supaman9g]

fraudulent translations

Such as...?

This one, for example.


The correct translation is as follows, and it has been confirmed by several Japanese speakers (you know this too).


"In his most powerful form" refers to "Goku" or "the power of the entire universe". (this is "he suddenly attacks" or "it suddenly attacks")
Your translation is therefore fraudulent, and you know it because several people have warned you about this.
Yet, you chose to ignore the inconvenient reality and stick to the lie that suits your agenda.

You are a liar.

[Koitsukai]

There's no overarching principle to follow here. Goku was outclassed by and didn't ask anyone to jump: old Piccolo Daimao, Vegeta, Freeza, #19, Cell, and Kid Buu. The others just step in because he would have died otherwise. Goku frequently overestimates his strength and needs to be bailed out by others.

You are paiting everything with the same brush.

-Of that list, Freeza was the only one out of his league, and only realized that fact half way in. But he faced him alone due to Freeza hiding his real power, using less than 10%.
-Daimao? Yajirobe was hiding behind a rock, that's the guy he is supposed to ask to jump Piccolo?
-Goku was not outclassed vs Vegeta, not with KK, mate.
-Android 19? Goku schooled it until his heart gave out. Not even knowing he was having problems made him back down from a one-on-one.
-Cell? the most exciting fight of the arc, to accomplish that characters cannot be outclassing one another. Goku was on the losing end, never outclassed. Not to mention, that fight was to show Gohan how Cell fights.

- I'll mention those you left out:
Super Buu: he said not even teaming up would do it.
Buutenks: he travelled galaxies to fuse with Gohan.
Buuhan: he was about to fuse with Mr. Satan due to how outclassed he was.
Kid Buu: he said, since Buu was no longer fused, he was gonna fight him alone, and it was an even fight, until he lost his SS3 form. Vegeta was outclassed by Kid Buu, not SS3 Goku.

When he thinks they are on his league, even if he is weaker, even if he is having a heart attack, he fights alone.
When he knows their true power and it's out of his league (Super Buu), he is more open-minded and avoids going solo.

It seems you confuse being stronger, ending up winning, and even hiding one's true power with being out of somebody's league. Also, I see, you fail to see the difference between a lie and being wrong. I'm starting to see why you read this arc the way that you do.


I would still like to hear how you explain Goku being dead serious about fusing FOREVER, no going back, with Mr. Satan, vs Buuhan, if with SS3 he was able to go toe-to-toe with the stronger Kid Buu.

[Supaman9g]

Yet another assumption that reveals both his reasoning bias and his lack of knowledge about the Dragon Ball fandom.
Dan's assumption


Versus
Reality

This is a small selection of Japanese forums and websites.
The vast majority of Japanese fans clearly understand that Buuhan is stronger than Kid Buu. They also distinguish between the anime and the manga.

[Eu sou Perfeito]

fraudulent translations

Such as...?

This one, for example.


The correct translation is as follows, and it has been confirmed by several Japanese speakers (you know this too).


"In his most powerful form" refers to "Goku" or "the power of the entire universe". (this is "he suddenly attacks" or "it suddenly attacks")
Your translation is therefore fraudulent, and you know it because several people have warned you about this.
Yet, you chose to ignore the inconvenient reality and stick to the lie that suits your agenda.

You are a liar.

The liar here is you.

The Weekly Shonen Jump N°19 1995 references the events of chapter 514.

Spoiler:

In this chapter we have Dende asking Porunga to resurrect all the people on Earth.

Spoiler:

Also Mr. Kaio giving the suggestion for Vegeta to speak to the entire universe, so that the Genki-Dama could have not only the energy of the Earth but also of the universe itself.

Spoiler:

Now let's look at the quote from Weekly Shonen Jump:

Spoiler:

願い事がある!!
I have a wish!!

I have a wish!! —> Dende wishing that Porunga would bring back all the people killed by Majin Buu.

全宇宙のパワー
The power of the universe

The power of the universe —> Kaioh stating to Vegeta that he can communicate with the entire universe.

That is, the term: 最強の形態 . It does not refer to Goku but to Kid Buu.

[VegettoEX]

Can we not, please?

Let's use actual language here? If all you can do is insult someone, you really don't have something worth saying, and I certainly have no interest in remotely considering what you otherwise (might?) have to say.

This is such a trivial, unimportant topic -- if you're unable to converse about this, I have concerns about your ability to be any kind of worthwhile, contributing member to the community about anything even remotely more engaging or worthwhile.

For example, concerning the translation of certain material: why is "your" version correct? What are your credentials as a translator? Can you break down the translation for someone who doesn't have the requisite familiarity? If you didn't translate it: who did? What are their credentials? Are you relying on machine translation? Are you aware of the pitfalls that presents? Can you (global, plural "you" here for "both sides") provide literally anything of authoritative substance to back up these language concerns?

Angry, dismissive, modern internet faux bravado isn't going to hold water here.

(RE: the report on the initial post -- if you're going to put something into the public wild, and particularly for something like this claim to be some kind of final word on the subject, you need to be willing to accept that people will read it and engage with it. The post will not be removed, but certain posters/accounts will be based on future responses and activity.)

[Luso Saiyan]

When you get hung up on "he said this but he didn't take this other thing into consideration but he also could've meant this, also this doesn't fully discard this other thing, and this other thing doesn't necessarily mean this other thing CANNOT BE" over the actual narrative arc and intent, that's when it all becomes silly.

True. But I think the narrative arc and intent establishes pretty well that Kid/Pure Buu is the most dangerous adversary. It's been a while since I've read the Buu arc, but I'm pretty sure that this is established multiple times. When Vegeta threatens to free Fat Buu, he assumes that he would become weaker, but Buu gets scared not because of any loss of power, but because he would not be himself anymore. And when Kibitoshin and Elder Kaioshin discuss Kid Buu, Kibitoshin confirms that he is the most dangerous Buu and that the thanks to the absorptions of the Kaioshin he gained a heart/consciousness which reduced his powers comparatively to his pure state.

When all of this is emphasized in the narrative, the intent is clear.

[Supaman9g]

Sorry if my words seem a bit direct. I'll be more mindful moving forward, and I apologize to anyone who might feel offended.
But I have a hard time with what I personally see as fake news.
I translate Japanese myself, and I have asked other fluent Japanese speakers as well as native Japanese people. Dan was informed of this, as were his French pro-Kid Buu friends. Even they told him that his translation was incorrect.
Below are screenshots of conversations with native Japanese speakers.


Why does he keep presenting it as if it were true? The least he could do is acknowledge that this translation has been challenged by many people, including native Japanese speakers.
Otherwise, the approach doesn’t seem very honest to me.

[The Monkey King]

Kid Buu truthers are the Flat Earthers of the Dragon Ball community.

Only the agenda matters to them. You can provide all the blatant truth to the contrary, you can point out how Kid Buu being the strongest fundamentally makes zero sense, you can show them how Goku shit himself at the mere idea of fighting Super Buu, it doesn't matter.

Why is Kid Buu being so strong so important to them? For some reason they've developed a community and identity surrounding Kid Buu being the strongest. It's very weird behaviour.

[Eu sou Perfeito]

Kid Buu truthers are the Flat Earthers of the Dragon Ball community.

Only the agenda matters to them. You can provide all the blatant truth to the contrary, you can point out how Kid Buu being the strongest fundamentally makes zero sense, you can show them how Goku shit himself at the mere idea of fighting Super Buu, it doesn't matter.

Why is Kid Buu being so strong so important to them? For some reason they've developed a community and identity surrounding Kid Buu being the strongest. It's very weird behaviour.

The reason for this is because there is simply evidence that states that he is the strongest Majin Buu, you can only disagree, you have the right to do so, but you can't deny their real existence

[Supaman9g]

Kid Buu truthers are the Flat Earthers of the Dragon Ball community.

Only the agenda matters to them. You can provide all the blatant truth to the contrary, you can point out how Kid Buu being the strongest fundamentally makes zero sense, you can show them how Goku shit himself at the mere idea of fighting Super Buu, it doesn't matter.

Why is Kid Buu being so strong so important to them? For some reason they've developed a community and identity surrounding Kid Buu being the strongest. It's very weird behaviour.

I understand.

In France, pro-Kid Buu supporters were practically invisible on forums and social media before 2015, when the first video from a YouTuber who became the leader of the movement in France—Hedge—was released. He even claims this himself and considers it his debate.
Dan got in touch with him in January 2025 and has been updating his Kid Buu fan theory ever since on his Discord server.

Of course, there must have been some French pro-Kid Buu supporters before, but they were so few that there is no trace of them before 2015.

Elsewhere, they were extremely rare before 2011 and almost nonexistent before 2007.
The oldest message I found from a pro-Kid Buu supporter dates back to 2004, and it is an exceptional occurrence among the many fans discussing power debates.

When I was a child, I was aware of the inconsistencies in the DBZ anime even before discovering the manga.
In France, many fans actually discovered the Buu arc through the manga—especially the end of the arc—before seeing it in the anime. Because of that, I was already aware of filler content in the Buu arc, such as the fight between Mr. Popo and two Super Saiyans.

There is a filler detail that further fueled the rise of pro-Kid Buu beliefs. The anime adaptation of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, explicitly states in a filler line written by one of the scriptwriters, Hiroshi Toda, that Kid Buu is the strongest. Additionally, there are three ambiguous filler lines that seem to support Kid Buu thanks to other filler elements (almost a circular filler-based argument).

However, the anime’s head scriptwriter, Takao Koyama, stated:
"At the time I was involved in Dragon Ball, since the manga serialization and the anime broadcast were progressing simultaneously, this created many inconsistencies. That’s because I was writing without even knowing the final destination. I kept writing without even being clearly informed that Goku and the others would transform into Super Saiyans."

Takao Koyama also said, "The Majin Buu who absorbed Ultimate Gohan is probably the strongest." He reiterated twice that he considers Buuhan to be the most powerful form and also shared two online rankings he agreed with—both of which placed Kid Buu below even Super Buu.

Here, the coexistence of the Dragon Ball manga and the Dragon Ball Z anime creates a situation where some fans prioritize one source over the other.

Pro-Kid Buu supporters rely on filler to defend their viewpoint, even though those fillers contradict the rest of the story.
They justify this by claiming, "The anime is also Dragon Ball," downplaying the fact that the fillers were written without knowledge of the manga’s ending.
This situation creates a dissonance in how the work is perceived, where different parts of the fandom cannot agree on what is officially valid.

The emergence of this belief in France after 2015 is directly linked to an influencer who popularized the idea. This aligns with how beliefs spread on the internet—where an idea can go viral if it resonates emotionally with people.

The internet has made it easier to spread alternative narratives that become "alternative truths" within certain communities.
This phenomenon is similar to what happens in conspiracy movements: a loud minority, driven by influential figures, challenges an established consensus.
Pro-Kid Buu supporters seem to analyze the work with a biased perspective, selectively picking elements that support their view. This is a textbook example of confirmation bias—seeking and interpreting information in a way that reinforces a preexisting belief rather than objectively considering the full narrative.

This phenomenon illustrates how certain beliefs can emerge and take hold, even when they contradict the facts. It also shows how pop culture can be a fertile ground for observing dynamics similar to those found in more serious debates (conspiracy theories, fake news, etc.). The sense of community, cognitive dissonance, and online echo chambers play a crucial role in the persistence and spread of these beliefs.

It’s a fascinating case study in the psychological and social mechanisms behind the formation of alternative beliefs.