If Daima becomes non-canon to Super, then what was the point?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Maybe it's just its own story.

The simplest answers are usually the correct ones. Super is a convoluted mess, so Toriyama may have just wanted a fresh start after Buu.

The fact SUPER HERO was effectively a stand alone movie (the only tie to anything modern DB was literally a filler scene) I am also of this belief.

[BernardoCairo]

I believe Toriyama approached each story as a brand new project. While he wrote the movies as sequels to one another, he likely wanted Daima to avoid being creatively constrained by the events of Super.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I believe Toriyama likely wanted Daima to avoid being creatively constrained by the events of Super.

This would not be a bad way to continue the franchise. Give different creatives a limited number of episodes to work with and have them go wild.

[BernardoCairo]

I agree! However, I don’t think every story needs to pick up right where Boo left off from now on. While it's a logical starting point, given that it's the final arc of the original manga, they could experiment more with both the future and the past.

[Hugo Boss]

I think the main point of Daima was to tell an original story independently of Super, as Akio Iyoku hinted in a recent interview. Even if the series’ placement wasn’t decided from the start, I think Toriyama always wanted to explore the Demon Realm. The occasional lore drops he gave in interviews over the years suggest that this concept had been in his mind for a while.

As for continuity, Daima is difficult to reconcile with Battle of Gods, Resurrection ‘F’, and Broly, as well as with both the DBS anime and manga. But after thinking about it, I didn’t find any major contradictions with the Super Hero movie. So, it doesn’t fit cleanly into Super, but still offers a take on concepts Toriyama had hinted at before.

[WittyUsername]

At this point, I can safely say that I think it’s best to view Daima as its own separate thing from Super. Yes, it references things like the Dragon Ball multiverse, but ultimately, trying to reconcile it with everything from BoG onward is a massive headache. I’m sure Toriyama wasn’t deliberately trying to contradict the DBS material, but he clearly wasn’t overly concerned about it either.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Daima actually fits in perfectly with Battle of Gods if you watch it after, but before Resurrection F. Goku and Vegeta have Ssj3 and Ssj2 respectively in BOG. They train some more after the fight with Beerus and unlock Ss4 (Goku) and Ssj3 (Vegeta). Diama happens. Goku and Vegeta then train with Whis and unlock Blue, then Resurrection F happens. With Blue, there's no need to use Ssj3 and Ssj4 anymore. Problem solved.

[WittyUsername]

Daima actually fits in perfectly with Battle of Gods if you watch it after, but before Resurrection F. Goku and Vegeta have Ssj3 and Ssj2 respectively in BOG. They train some more after the fight with Beerus and unlock Ss4 (Goku) and Ssj3 (Vegeta). Diama happens. Goku and Vegeta then train with Whis and unlock Blue, then Resurrection F happens. With Blue, there's no need to use Ssj3 and Ssj4 anymore. Problem solved.

Daima explicitly takes places earlier in the timeline than BoG. BoG takes places four years after Kid Boo is defeated, but Daima begins with the cast celebrating Trunks’ 9th birthday.

[ZombieVito]

I think the main point of Daima was to tell an original story independently of Super, as Akio Iyoku hinted in a recent interview. Even if the series’ placement wasn’t decided from the start, I think Toriyama always wanted to explore the Demon Realm. The occasional lore drops he gave in interviews over the years suggest that this concept had been in his mind for a while.

As for continuity, Daima is difficult to reconcile with Battle of Gods, Resurrection ‘F’, and Broly, as well as with both the DBS anime and manga. But after thinking about it, I didn’t find any major contradictions with the Super Hero movie. So, it doesn’t fit cleanly into Super, but still offers a take on concepts Toriyama had hinted at before.

Bulma gets a whole bucket of de-aging bugs in Daima's last scene.

It directly contradicts her actions in Super Hero.

[mecha3000]

Well, Daima's finale confirmed what I said in this thread. An effort wasn't made to connect it to Super. And now all the fans and DB YouTubers thinking it would have egg all over their faces. Anyway, I prefer the numbered SSJ forms to the god forms anyway so I don't mind Daima being its own continuity. Like I said, it's more than clear at this point with the finale airing that GT, Super, and Daima are all their own canons.

[WittyUsername]

I think the main point of Daima was to tell an original story independently of Super, as Akio Iyoku hinted in a recent interview. Even if the series’ placement wasn’t decided from the start, I think Toriyama always wanted to explore the Demon Realm. The occasional lore drops he gave in interviews over the years suggest that this concept had been in his mind for a while.

As for continuity, Daima is difficult to reconcile with Battle of Gods, Resurrection ‘F’, and Broly, as well as with both the DBS anime and manga. But after thinking about it, I didn’t find any major contradictions with the Super Hero movie. So, it doesn’t fit cleanly into Super, but still offers a take on concepts Toriyama had hinted at before.

Bulma gets a whole bucket of de-aging bugs in Daima's last scene.

It directly contradicts her actions in Super Hero.

In fairness, both cases also directly contradict the epilogue in the original manga, where Bulma has visibly aged.

[SupremeKai25]

Just because Daima doesn't connect to Super doesn't mean it's non-canon or Super is non-canon, it just means that they're different continuities.

As you can read from the interview I reported in my signature, Super is written by Toriyama. So it's canon. Daima is also written by Toriyama, so it's also canon.

If Daima "becomes non-canon to Super", it simply means it's a different continuity. That doesn't change the fact that both Daima and Super are canon.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I prefer the numbered SSJ forms to the god forms anyway so I don't mind Daima being its own continuity.

Same here. This franchise is big enough for both Super and Daima to co-exist. We can get a story like Daima with Ssj4 that's its own thing, while getting a Black Freeza arc later this year that continues Super.

[emperior]

Daima came after Super, only has one continuity, was entirely written by Toriyama and contradicts Super.

It’s logical to say that it is the new canon. Possibly Toriyama wanted a fresh start where he could have more control, but especially one of higher quality.

He might have reused some of Super’s concepts down the line, of course, as he did with some of the universe lore which he apparently quite liked.

I would still like to think that Battle of Gods happens due to how good it is, and I liked the U6 saga and ToP, but the rest, aside maybe from Broly and Super Hero, can go.

[Or maybe the fabled Toriyama’s 3rd continuity which people hypothesized Broly was a part of is set in this same continuity? Speaks volumes of how messy Super got]

[BernardoCairo]

Bulma gets a whole bucket of de-aging bugs in Daima's last scene.

Maybe she just ran out of them. Also, she was using the Dragon Balls as part of a deal with Dende, spamming as many wishes as she could.
This is the easiest thing to explain to be honest...

[WittyUsername]

It certainly would be cleaner to view Daima as the “canon” continuation of the original manga, given that it’s just a single 20 episode show. Meanwhile, there are at least three different versions of how BoG went down.

Ultimately though, Dragon Ball is all a work of fiction anyway, so it’s silly for fans to get hung up over what does and what doesn’t deserve the coveted canon status.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

It’s logical to say that it is the new canon.

It certainly would be cleaner to view Daima as the “canon” continuation of the original manga, given that it’s just a single 20 episode show. Meanwhile, there are at least three different versions of how BoG went down.

Dragon Ball has no canon. To say DB has a canon is to say some things count while others don't. This is not the case with DB, as no one has ever said one aspect of the franchise (besides the original manga) takes priority over another. You've got the original manga on top, with everything else on equal footing below it.

[emperior]

The canon is the author’s story. Of course the fact that something is not canon doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or makes it worse or better.

It’s just a statement. Maybe meaningless, now that Toriyama will no longer be writing future stories.

[SupremeKai25]

The canon is the author’s story.

So why didn't you include the Zamasu saga in your list of modern arcs that are canon, when Toriyama himself said he thought about the story?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The canon is the author’s story.

Everything in Dragon Ball, from the manga to the anime, from the movies to the games, have had some form of Toriyama input. How do we decide what's canon when he's basically been involved with everything up to his death ? Look at Super for example, his level of involvement in the movies differs from the anime, which differs from the manga. Does that mean part of Super are more canon than the others ? Outside the original manga, everything is really equal.