Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 20 - Official Discussion Thread

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

The first 2/3 of the series is clearly stronger than the last third but the series still remained enjoyable and fun.

8/10

That post-credit scene was just PEAK.

[QuakingStar]

So he first learns a new form is possible while training after Buu is defeated, he then GETS the form thanks to Neva awakening it. I guess it's like when they all thought there was something beyond SS, or when he himself first thought there was something beyond SS2.

[ZombieVito]

I know for certainty that the "this is my strongest form" line comes from the manga. Toyotaro has no hand in Daima, so it doesn't really matter to me anyway. I would expect Toei to ignore Toyotaro's manga when giving input for Daima.

I can't recall if that line is ever said in the anime or movie, and I've heard conflicting reports on this.

It happens in the anime. Goku calls SS3 his full power. In the movie Beerus asks Goku to go full power and he uses SS3.

Daima's nonsense just doesn't work with Super.

[BagetaSama]

So he first learns a new form is possible while training after Buu is defeated, he then GETS the form thanks to Neva awakening it. I guess it's like when they all thought there was something beyond SS, or when he himself first thought there was something beyond SS2.

Does he explicitly say that Neva awakened it? I think he just says that he realized that there was something beyond it but he hadn't tried it or something along those lines.

But regardless, this doesn't explain why he doesn't use it against Beerus later, which is kind of my issue. I was hoping the Finale would explain why SSJ4 was available to him here but not against Beerus in DBS.

Or, even better, ideally it would explain why Vegeta couldn't use SSJ3 against Beerus either.

Because now we have these continuity issues, in addition to the fact that once DBS starts Kibitoshin is fused, conversely he is infused in Daima due to Buu's "bad air". This is the same "bad air" that Gowasu explains wasn't the reason why Vegetto unfused but rather because mortals have a time limit in fusions.

I was REALLY hoping all of these continuity issues would be fixed, but apparently not.

[QuakingStar]

So he first learns a new form is possible while training after Buu is defeated, he then GETS the form thanks to Neva awakening it. I guess it's like when they all thought there was something beyond SS, or when he himself first thought there was something beyond SS2.

Does he explicitly say that Neva awakened it? I think he just says that he realized that there was something beyond it but he hadn't tried it or something along those lines.

But regardless, this doesn't explain why he doesn't use it against Beerus later, which is kind of my issue. I was hoping the Finale would explain why SSJ4 was available to him here but not against Beerus in DBS.

Or, even better, ideally it would explain why Vegeta couldn't use SSJ3 against Beerus either.

Because now we have these continuity issues, in addition to the fact that once DBS starts Kibitoshin is fused, conversely he is infused in Daima due to Buu's "bad air". This is the same "bad air" that Gowasu explains wasn't the reason why Vegetto unfused but rather because mortals have a time limit in fusions.

I was REALLY hoping all of these continuity issues would be fixed, but apparently not.

To be frank, Super was all made with outlines Toriyama sent them. He didn't seem SUPER interested in it(pun not intended). While Daima seems to be what he wanted... BUT Ikyo also confirmed that Daima is an official sequel to the Majin Buu Saga, and another statement says it is an official Interquel to DBS. I'm hoping that BEFORE the new DBS Arc starts they give explanations to cover Toriyamas holes he left.

[fadeddreams5]

So if the person who defeats the Supreme Demon King takes his place, shouldn't Majin Buu be the ruler of the Demon Realm?

[Zephyr]

So if the person who defeats the Supreme Demon King takes his place, shouldn't Majin Buu be the ruler of the Demon Realm?

And with him having been defeated by Goku, Son is the rightful heir to the throne.

[QuakingStar]

Lmao, anybody seen the dragonball wiki this last hour? Some admin called DragonEmeperor is edit warring with a random guy who pointed out that Goku did not have SS4 before Neva forced it to awaken or he would have used it instead of getting his ass beat by Gomah into collapsing as a SS3. They really just let anybody be an admin on those wiki's huh?

[Ronin]

So if the person who defeats the Supreme Demon King takes his place, shouldn't Majin Buu be the ruler of the Demon Realm?

And with him having been defeated by Goku, Son is the rightful heir to the throne.

I didn't think about that. Technically, everyone on Earth and whoever else contributed to that last Genki dama should be Supreme Demon King.

[Lord Beerus]

First half of the episode bored me to tears. I mean, it was pretty to look at but there was no stakes or interpersonal drama to make the battle between Goku and Gomah intriguing in the slightest.

Count me in the camp that found the second half of the episode far more interesting. Majin Koo solidifying himself as the best character in the entire show by defeating Gomah and becoming the ruler of the Demon Realm was a joy to be watch. I doubly loved how he was giving out major roles under his leadership for everyone who weren’t asking for it and just ignored Hybis when asked for a position.

I also got a massive kick out of the gag of The Third Eye being something that was sold in a convenience store. That was 100% a joke Toriyama himself wrote.

The second half of the episode wasn’t without its issues.

Goku revealing he trained to attain SSJ4 after defeating Majin Boo make the design of the form in Daima incomprehensible. There is nothing about SSJ4 from an aesthetic perspective that makes it seem as though it links with the previous SSJ forms. Also if Goku had this form in his back pocket, why didn’t he use it earlier? Why did Nova need to unlock it for him? How would Nova even know of the existence of SSJ4 to begin with that he could unlock it for Goku to use in the first place? SSJ4 has just been handled so badly in Daima.

Piccolo doing fuck all in the finale was sad but it didn’t shock me.

Panzy being reduced to a cardboard cutout instead of a character legit annoyed me. She was introduced so well and appeared to be well characterised in the first half of the show but then just became a background character in the second half of Daima. Such wasted potential.

Gomah is the worst villain Dragon Ball has had in many years. He just came across as an inferior rendition of Emperor Pilaf. He became especially dull during the final battle with the main cast.

Arinsu is another character Daima really shafted. She was another character that was introduced in such an intriguing manner and the story was teasing she would have an interesting interpersonal dynamic that would explored with Glorio but never did so in any compelling way. She just became another character who just kinda there to react to the plot.

So with Daima wrapped up I can honestly say this was… not a good show. It certainly wasn’t bad but I just can shake the feeling the Daima would have better served as a two hour movie because there was really only about 5 episodes worth of plot in this 20 episode show.

Daima spent so much time with its lore and world building that they didn’t think to how it would enrich the characterisation of the cast. I can’t think of a single character arc in the entire show that I thought was decently written.

I can’t in good conscience recommend this show over Super or GT. Super had far more interesting characters to watch and GT had a far better ending. The only thing Daima has to claim as a major positive is that it was consistently well animated. There’s nothing about the show that stands out from a narrative perspective.

Daima’s defining narrative contribution to the franchise is something that was already introduced the franchise nearly 30 years ago. And I’m not sure that’s a legacy Daima wants to have, but it’s gonna have it.

If Daima has made one thing clear, the main are creatively cooked. There is nothing left for them to do that is interesting from a characterisation perspective. Goku was going through the motions, Vegeta was just boring to watch most of the time, Bulma and Piccolo did nothing important, the lore behind Kaioshin added nothing to his character and turning the rest of the cast into children was pointless.

It’s such a bittersweet feeling knowing this is Toriyama’s final major contribution to Dragon Ball but I feel so ambivalent towards it overall that I have no desire the watch it again anytime soon.

Dragon Ball Daima is the White Bread entry of the Dragon Ball franchise: It’s very much consumable but there is no unique flavour to it and you’re left wondering why you didn’t taste something better.

[Saiya6Cit]

I LOVE DAIMA from begining to end.

Nothing is perfect, of course, but this show meets my expectations and went beyond on some. Oh this show has delivered. I got served. And I could have dessert (Daima movies, I am calling for you). They have set up a solid universe. Lovely characters. It has potential for a second seasson even, but I believe they could safely go for some movies. And finally use give vegeta ssj4 and use the fusion bugs.

Everybody on the internet gave for granted the fusion it is funny it did not happen LOL


The fight was fast paced for sure. Thankfully I watched a few episodes of Xeno and kept an eye on the arcade card game to know what modern dragon ball would tend to look like: All flashy and sparkly, fast paced as a mr beast videos and these tiktok-like frenzy

I swear, it's like I'm watching a Mexican soap opera, where the same damn character drama shows up every episode.

But this isn't the same at all
Vegeta wasn't mad that Goku kept Super Saiyajin 4 as a secret, his pride was not "hurt"... There was no drama. Their rivalry is purely sporting.

I do agree that, of course, he peaked during the Boo Arc. But his current rivalry/friendship with Goku isn't really an issue for me.

Saying Goku is number one does not mean "I will stop trying to be better than him one day"
Bulma has affection for Goku, we all knew that by staying with Bulma, Vegeta would eventually refrain from trying to kill Goku. You can even try to see it IRL, imagine: If your wife has a friend she knows since before meeting you, and the guy happens to play soccer and you also play soccer, and this guy scores more goals than you do, would you really dislike the guy that much as wanting to kill him? And his son is friends with your son, don´t forget that part. Wouldn´t you rather take it as a competition? the way brothers/cousins compete with each other? I mean... just "saiyan".

The very end was pure Toriyama's trolling, the scene with the store. Ha. I liked that.

Congratulations Toei Animation for creating something better than Dragon Ball Super and worthy to honor the memory of our beloved Toriyama sensei, at one year of his passing, Daima felt like a gift from beyond. Dragon Ball shall live for generations to come.

[QuakingStar]

I LOVE DAIMA from begining to end.

Nothing is perfect, of course, but this show meets my expectations and went beyond on some. Oh this show has delivered. I got served. And I could have dessert (Daima movies, I am calling for you). They have set up a solid universe. Lovely characters. It has potential for a second seasson even, but I believe they could safely go for some movies. And finally use give vegeta ssj4 and use the fusion bugs.

Everybody on the internet gave for granted the fusion it is funny it did not happen LOL


The fight was fast paced for sure. Thankfully I watched a few episodes of Xeno and kept an eye on the arcade card game to know what modern dragon ball would tend to look like: All flashy and sparkly, fast paced as a mr beast videos and these tiktok-like frenzy

I swear, it's like I'm watching a Mexican soap opera, where the same damn character drama shows up every episode.

But this isn't the same at all
Vegeta wasn't mad that Goku kept Super Saiyajin 4 as a secret, his pride was not "hurt"... There was no drama. Their rivalry is purely sporting.

I do agree that, of course, he peaked during the Boo Arc. But his current rivalry/friendship with Goku isn't really an issue for me.

Saying Goku is number one does not mean "I will stop trying to be better than him one day"
Bulma has affection for Goku, we all knew that by staying with Bulma, Vegeta would eventually refrain from trying to kill Goku. You can even try to see it IRL, imagine: If your wife has a friend she knows since before meeting you, and the guy happens to play soccer and you also play soccer, and this guy scores more goals than you do, would you really dislike the guy that much as wanting to kill him? And his son is friends with your son, don´t forget that part. Wouldn´t you rather take it as a competition? the way brothers/cousins compete with each other? I mean... just "saiyan".

The very end was pure Toriyama's trolling, the scene with the store. Ha. I liked that.

Congratulations Toei Animation for creating something better than Dragon Ball Super and worthy to honor the memory of our beloved Toriyama sensei, at one year of his passing, Daima felt like a gift from beyond. Dragon Ball shall live for generations to come.

I loved it too, just wish they had explained a few things in this last episode.

[RandomGuy96]

I unironically love that Toriyama's last contribution as an artist was shitting all over the very idea of a strict canon for his most famous work in every way possible. Followed by dismantling a series worth of foreshadowing for a cheap gag, capped off by a farcical but upbeat ending. It's very Dragon Ball.

Godspeed, you mad phenom.

[Super Murjin]

More Dragon Ball content to follow per Akio Iyoku ..... eventually.

Maybe they will explain this in the future.

The connection between Super and Daima, Super Saiyan 4, etc

[Hulk10]

Lmao, anybody seen the dragonball wiki this last hour? Some admin called DragonEmeperor is edit warring with a random guy who pointed out that Goku did not have SS4 before Neva forced it to awaken or he would have used it instead of getting his ass beat by Gomah into collapsing as a SS3. They really just let anybody be an admin on those wiki's huh?

Ugh that wikia is trash........................


But it was nice to see SSJ4 get another really great powershowcase.

I LOVE DAIMA from begining to end.

Nothing is perfect, of course, but this show meets my expectations and went beyond on some. Oh this show has delivered. I got served. And I could have dessert (Daima movies, I am calling for you). They have set up a solid universe. Lovely characters. It has potential for a second seasson even, but I believe they could safely go for some movies. And finally use give vegeta ssj4 and use the fusion bugs.

Everybody on the internet gave for granted the fusion it is funny it did not happen LOL


The fight was fast paced for sure. Thankfully I watched a few episodes of Xeno and kept an eye on the arcade card game to know what modern dragon ball would tend to look like: All flashy and sparkly, fast paced as a mr beast videos and these tiktok-like frenzy

I swear, it's like I'm watching a Mexican soap opera, where the same damn character drama shows up every episode.

But this isn't the same at all
Vegeta wasn't mad that Goku kept Super Saiyajin 4 as a secret, his pride was not "hurt"... There was no drama. Their rivalry is purely sporting.

I do agree that, of course, he peaked during the Boo Arc. But his current rivalry/friendship with Goku isn't really an issue for me.

Saying Goku is number one does not mean "I will stop trying to be better than him one day"
Bulma has affection for Goku, we all knew that by staying with Bulma, Vegeta would eventually refrain from trying to kill Goku. You can even try to see it IRL, imagine: If your wife has a friend she knows since before meeting you, and the guy happens to play soccer and you also play soccer, and this guy scores more goals than you do, would you really dislike the guy that much as wanting to kill him? And his son is friends with your son, don´t forget that part. Wouldn´t you rather take it as a competition? the way brothers/cousins compete with each other? I mean... just "saiyan".

The very end was pure Toriyama's trolling, the scene with the store. Ha. I liked that.

Congratulations Toei Animation for creating something better than Dragon Ball Super and worthy to honor the memory of our beloved Toriyama sensei, at one year of his passing, Daima felt like a gift from beyond. Dragon Ball shall live for generations to come.

I think we should view DAIMA as a stand alone story. And I agree that it is also a fitting tribute to Toriyama sensei.

[QuakingStar]

Lmao, anybody seen the dragonball wiki this last hour? Some admin called DragonEmeperor is edit warring with a random guy who pointed out that Goku did not have SS4 before Neva forced it to awaken or he would have used it instead of getting his ass beat by Gomah into collapsing as a SS3. They really just let anybody be an admin on those wiki's huh?

Ugh that wikia is trash........................


But it was nice to see SSJ4 get another really great powershowcase.

I LOVE DAIMA from begining to end.

Nothing is perfect, of course, but this show meets my expectations and went beyond on some. Oh this show has delivered. I got served. And I could have dessert (Daima movies, I am calling for you). They have set up a solid universe. Lovely characters. It has potential for a second seasson even, but I believe they could safely go for some movies. And finally use give vegeta ssj4 and use the fusion bugs.

Everybody on the internet gave for granted the fusion it is funny it did not happen LOL


The fight was fast paced for sure. Thankfully I watched a few episodes of Xeno and kept an eye on the arcade card game to know what modern dragon ball would tend to look like: All flashy and sparkly, fast paced as a mr beast videos and these tiktok-like frenzy

But this isn't the same at all
Vegeta wasn't mad that Goku kept Super Saiyajin 4 as a secret, his pride was not "hurt"... There was no drama. Their rivalry is purely sporting.

I do agree that, of course, he peaked during the Boo Arc. But his current rivalry/friendship with Goku isn't really an issue for me.

Saying Goku is number one does not mean "I will stop trying to be better than him one day"
Bulma has affection for Goku, we all knew that by staying with Bulma, Vegeta would eventually refrain from trying to kill Goku. You can even try to see it IRL, imagine: If your wife has a friend she knows since before meeting you, and the guy happens to play soccer and you also play soccer, and this guy scores more goals than you do, would you really dislike the guy that much as wanting to kill him? And his son is friends with your son, don´t forget that part. Wouldn´t you rather take it as a competition? the way brothers/cousins compete with each other? I mean... just "saiyan".

The very end was pure Toriyama's trolling, the scene with the store. Ha. I liked that.

Congratulations Toei Animation for creating something better than Dragon Ball Super and worthy to honor the memory of our beloved Toriyama sensei, at one year of his passing, Daima felt like a gift from beyond. Dragon Ball shall live for generations to come.

I think we should view DAIMA as a stand alone story. And I agree that it is also a fitting tribute to Toriyama sensei.

I go to look at the changes on there occasionally especially when some new stuff goes on. Some of the admins there are pieces of work.

[Hulk10]

Lmao, anybody seen the dragonball wiki this last hour? Some admin called DragonEmeperor is edit warring with a random guy who pointed out that Goku did not have SS4 before Neva forced it to awaken or he would have used it instead of getting his ass beat by Gomah into collapsing as a SS3. They really just let anybody be an admin on those wiki's huh?

Ugh that wikia is trash........................


But it was nice to see SSJ4 get another really great powershowcase.

I LOVE DAIMA from begining to end.

Nothing is perfect, of course, but this show meets my expectations and went beyond on some. Oh this show has delivered. I got served. And I could have dessert (Daima movies, I am calling for you). They have set up a solid universe. Lovely characters. It has potential for a second seasson even, but I believe they could safely go for some movies. And finally use give vegeta ssj4 and use the fusion bugs.

Everybody on the internet gave for granted the fusion it is funny it did not happen LOL


The fight was fast paced for sure. Thankfully I watched a few episodes of Xeno and kept an eye on the arcade card game to know what modern dragon ball would tend to look like: All flashy and sparkly, fast paced as a mr beast videos and these tiktok-like frenzy



Saying Goku is number one does not mean "I will stop trying to be better than him one day"
Bulma has affection for Goku, we all knew that by staying with Bulma, Vegeta would eventually refrain from trying to kill Goku. You can even try to see it IRL, imagine: If your wife has a friend she knows since before meeting you, and the guy happens to play soccer and you also play soccer, and this guy scores more goals than you do, would you really dislike the guy that much as wanting to kill him? And his son is friends with your son, don´t forget that part. Wouldn´t you rather take it as a competition? the way brothers/cousins compete with each other? I mean... just "saiyan".

The very end was pure Toriyama's trolling, the scene with the store. Ha. I liked that.

Congratulations Toei Animation for creating something better than Dragon Ball Super and worthy to honor the memory of our beloved Toriyama sensei, at one year of his passing, Daima felt like a gift from beyond. Dragon Ball shall live for generations to come.

I think we should view DAIMA as a stand alone story. And I agree that it is also a fitting tribute to Toriyama sensei.

I go to look at the changes on there occasionally especially when some new stuff goes on. Some of the admins there are pieces of work.

Me too and yeah I agree. But admining a wikia is hard. And I would know.

[Scsigs]

Sorry if this is something someone else said, but...

So, they ended Daima on an open ending? They didn't even try to explain how it fits in the timeline established in Super? Goku can just access SS4, Vegeta can access SS3, & Supreme Kai & Kibito are separate again earlier & through a different way than in Super? That's it?

[The Iron Fjord]

The post-Daima Depression is starting to hit.

Episode 20 was better than 19, but only slightly better than 18. SSJ4 Adult Goku vs Gomah was greatly animated but still not the best fight in Daima (Gok vs Ball 3), and Kuu landing the decisive blows and becoming the new Demon King was hilarious and amazing at the same time. A lot of questions unanswered, and a lot of answers unquestioned (RIP Fusion bugs, Gohan, memory wipe), and people are gonna debate endlessly on the canonicity of Daima in comparison to Super, but I never cared for that stuff.

[fadeddreams5]

You know what would have been cool and could have easily explained SSJ4's absence in Super? If SSJ3 required a full moon before powering up further. Such a simple fix.