If Daima becomes non-canon to Super, then what was the point?

[ZombieVito]

Bulma gets a whole bucket of de-aging bugs in Daima's last scene.

Maybe she just ran out of them. Also, she was using the Dragon Balls as part of a deal with Dende, spamming as many wishes as she could.
This is the easiest thing to explain to be honest...

You didn't see the episode? One bug de-ages her skin 10 years.

[super michael]

Canon and non canon doesn't make a difference if something is good or bad. Daima and DBS doesn't have to connect with each other.

I hope Daima gets more continuation, I would like to see more season and episode. As for DBS manga I hope it does return, I would like to read more chapters.
DBS anime if it returns, they need to fix their writing and characters.

[FiReFTW]

I just don't get why they NEVER EVER even make the slightest effort to connect things better and just leave such illogical things hanging in the air, things that could have been explained or solved with 1 MINOR thing they add or an explanation or whatever, I just don't get it.

[ABED]

Ugh, I don't like questions like this. Canon doesn't matter and has never mattered. The point of any of this is to entertain you.

[BernardoCairo]

One bug de-ages her skin 10 years.

Yeah, but I assumed she would eat a lot of them at once, compulsively. Even if that’s not the case, she also uses the Dragon Balls for other purposes, like lifting her butt.

[WittyUsername]

It’s logical to say that it is the new canon.

It certainly would be cleaner to view Daima as the “canon” continuation of the original manga, given that it’s just a single 20 episode show. Meanwhile, there are at least three different versions of how BoG went down.

Dragon Ball has no canon. To say DB has a canon is to say some things count while others don't. This is not the case with DB, as no one has ever said one aspect of the franchise (besides the original manga) takes priority over another. You've got the original manga on top, with everything else on equal footing below it.

There’s a reason why the second paragraph of my post was me mentioning how silly it is for fans to debate what is and what isn’t “canon”. All I was saying is that if you want to play the “canon” game, Daima would be a lot cleaner to accept as the “true” follow-up to Toriyama’s original work by virtue of being a standalone story that he seemed to have the most control over. Meanwhile, DBS has several branching paths, and really stretches the suspension of disbelief as a midquel to the epilogue in the manga.

All I can definitively say is that there is no real way to reconcile Daima with Super, so it’s best to view them as being in their own separate continuities.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I just don't get why they NEVER EVER even make the slightest effort to connect things better and just leave such illogical things hanging in the air, things that could have been explained or solved with 1 MINOR thing they add or an explanation or whatever, I just don't get it.

Daima was initially pitched as a limited series, it was never meant to be anything more. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the reason it doesn't connect to Super is simply because the writers didn't want it to. They wanted to go all out without having to worry about how it would impact other series.

[jjgp1112]

I think the reality that has become apparent now is that Toriyama probably viewed anything that followed up the original 1984-95 manga as optional, detachable add-ons. The original story is what matters, and everything after are what-ifs.

But given Toriyama's particular enthusiasm with this and the heavy emphasis on lore, I think it wouldn't be too wild to say that perhaps he approached this as a legitimate follow-up that incorporates elements of the previous sequels.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I think the reality that has become apparent now is that Toriyama probably viewed anything that followed up the original 1984-95 manga as optional, detachable add-ons. The original story is what matters, and everything after are what-ifs.

He outright said this. He said he viewed Super as a "casual continuation", GT as a "grand side story" and the old movies "set in their own dimension". It's only Super's fans who seem to believe that the original manga and Super are of equal importance to Toriyama and the people involved with the franchise.

[Mr Baggins]

Okay guys hear me out, what if

Guys seriously

I've cracked the case

Guys what if

Hey, listen!

Daima is the Child Timeline
Super is the Adult Timeline
GT is the Fallen Hero Timeline

Spoiler:

and Heroes is that shitty Hyrule Warriors spinoff

[kidhero1000]

We of the DB community been hoodwinked, bamboozled, lead astray, run amok and flat out deceived into being made to believe Daima would properly tie into Super's timeline. And should demand Iyoku, Toyotaro, everyone in Tōei, Shūeisha, or Bamco down to their cleaning crews release a massive wave of apology videos because they didn't concern themselves with neatly tying Daima to Super with the last episode. Rather than not giving to fucks while sitting back to count up all that influx of cash coming from the new Daima content that will be finding its way to all the Gatcha DB mobile games, console games DLCs, trading cards, toys, and other DB merch that fans will be dumping money into getting. Since that's what truly matters to these corporations at the end of the day. And the purpose of anything DB related that has been released past 1995.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

We of the DB community been deceived into being made to believe Daima would properly tie into Super's timeline.

Actually, no one in any official position ever said the two would connect at the end; it was always fans simply assuming they would.

[Dbzfan94]

The "point" is that Toriyama had a story he wanted to tell and told it, disregarding Super because it didnt matter to what he was doing.

The term canon has such a chokehold on this fandom I legitimately do not get it. Why does it matter that Daima connects to Super or not?

Super, Daima, and GT are all their own continuities. Hell, Super alone has multiple.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The "point" is that Toriyama had a story he wanted to tell and told it, disregarding Super because it didn't matter to what he was doing.

Why this is so hard to understand is beyond me.

The term canon has such a chokehold on this fandom I legitimately do not get it.

Fans are basically applying western comic book logic to DB, when in fact the people in charge consider all parts of the franchise equally important.

Why does it matter that Daima connects to Super or not?

Super's fans can't accept the fact that Super can be ignored just as GT was ten years ago.

[JulieYBM]

We of the DB community been hoodwinked, bamboozled, lead astray, run amok and flat out deceived into being made to believe Daima would properly tie into Super's timeline. And should demand Iyoku, Toyotaro, everyone in Tōei, Shūeisha, or Bamco down to their cleaning crews release a massive wave of apology videos because they didn't concern themselves with neatly tying Daima to Super with the last episode. Rather than not giving to fucks while sitting back to count up all that influx of cash coming from the new Daima content that will be finding its way to all the Gatcha DB mobile games, console games DLCs, trading cards, toys, and other DB merch that fans will be dumping money into getting. Since that's what truly matters to these corporations at the end of the day. And the purpose of anything DB related that has been released past 1995.

Wonderful parody writing on you part! You really capture the melodramatic way that a lot of people write about how upset they are over their fandoms.

[Dbzfan94]

The "point" is that Toriyama had a story he wanted to tell and told it, disregarding Super because it didn't matter to what he was doing.

Why this is so hard to understand is beyond me.

The term canon has such a chokehold on this fandom I legitimately do not get it.

Fans are basically applying western comic book logic to DB, when in fact the people in charge consider all parts of the franchise equally important.

Why does it matter that Daima connects to Super or not?

Super's fans can't accept the fact that Super can be ignored just as GT was ten years ago.

Pretty much yeah. First "Canon" was everything Toriyama made so they throw out GT/the movies, but now Daima IS something he made and some fans are trying to say Daima isnt canon either. Just because of Super. The hypocricy is crazy.

[WittyUsername]

One other thing I’ll say is that it does seem like Daima was something Toriyama had more fun working on compared to pretty much anything related to Super, with the possible exception of SH. The more I think about it, it’s not surprising that he wasn’t concerned about staying consistent DBS. He just wanted to tell a silly story that interested him.

[The Tori-bot]

As someone who is maybe like a 3/10 on the “canon fanon” scale, i.e. I LIKE when things tie together neatly and would encourage it where possible, but can also refrain from throwing my toys out of the pram when they don’t… At the end of the day, it’s not impossible to make Super & Daima work together. Toyotaro could come out with a special story showing some crisis that requires Kaiōshin and Kibito to fuse back together, and for Goku to realise that SSJ4 isn’t worth the effort. And where the heck Panzy went, I guess. But that almost seems like more trouble than it’s worth at this point.

Now that the dust is settling, I’m happy to consider Daima as a big “what-if?” Toriyama wrote one more manga arc after Buu, maybe in like '97, after a well-deserved wellness break & glomming some inspiration from watching GT on TV. That’s how it feels to me now.

If a choice need be made, I’m still going to consider Dragon Ball Super the “main”/“real” continuation after Buu, because I like it better than the other 2 flavours on offer. I would rather include its many sprawling story arcs in my headcanon, for all their ups and downs, over the 20 mostly-meh episodes of Daima (albeit with some incredible highs & animation along the way, don’t get me wrong). Now, which version of Super do I mean? Well, that’s just scratching at the futility of the whole endeavour, ain’t it? At the end of the day, personal preference is all it comes down to. If Toriyama didn’t care about any of this shit, then why should we?

It’s kinda funny to see the fallout now from the significant portion of western fandom for whom “canon” is everything, the ones whose “sources” insisted that it would all make perfect sense in the end continuity-wise. Maybe this will be what finally lifts the veil on the whole silly notion that any of this is meant to be internally consistent.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I’m happy to consider Daima as a big “what-if?” Toriyama wrote one more manga arc after Buu, maybe in like '97, after a well-deserved wellness break & glomming some inspiration from watching GT on TV. That’s how it feels to me now.

If the Pilaf arc is considered the prologue to Dragon Ball, then I consider Daima its epilogue. That's how I see things now anyway.

[Muffin Man]

I’m happy to consider Daima as a big “what-if?” Toriyama wrote one more manga arc after Buu, maybe in like '97, after a well-deserved wellness break & glomming some inspiration from watching GT on TV. That’s how it feels to me now.

If the Pilaf arc is considered the prologue to Dragon Ball, then I consider Daima its epilogue. That's how I see things now anyway.

Yeah that's a great way to put it.

Super, to me, feels like an alternate narrative branch after the Buu saga that has become incompatible with EoZ (at least as we saw it in the original story, maybe Super will eventually redo the events of EoZ in a way that makes sense with Super) and that mainly exists because the DB IP brings in the big bucks and they want to pump out as many episodes, movies, or manga volumes as possible.

Whereas Daima feels like AT setting Super aside and adding one last final flourish onto his original story in a way that ties up a loose end from the Buu arc and thematically brings things full circle back to the start of DB, without contradicting or undermining the original EoZ.