Planet Vegeta

dragondyle · Post by **dragondyle** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:51 pm

Is Planet Vegeta named after King Vegeta? Or was it named before King Vegeta came into power, if there ever was a previous ruler? Or was it named differently before Vegeta, if, again, there ever was a previous ruler?

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:56 pm

Based on how long the planet has been under the rule of the Saiya-jins (a pretty long time) I'd say that when the Saiya-jins took over the planet their ruler was named Vegeta, and then the name was passed down from king to prince. The only other explanation I can think of, and it's not very likely at all, is that the Planet is renamed every time there is a new king.

Post by **Herms** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:25 pm

Going by the manga, the answer to all those questions is unclear. Going by the anime (including GT and the not-quite-OVA), the planet was renamed from Planet Plant to Planet Vegeta when the Saiyans took it over from the Tsuru. King Vegeta (as in Vegeta's father, not some previous one) lead the Saiyans in their battle against the Tsuru and become the Saiyans' king, so presumably the planet was named after him.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:34 pm

Was there ever some reference to how long the Saiya-jins have been working for Freeza? Because I know they worked on their own first and then for Freeza, so it would seem like things happened pretty fast if first they won the planet, then started conquering other planets, then worked for Freeza all in the lifetime of one Saiya-jin.

And also, I know this will most likely be proved false or a filler inconsistency that I don't recall at the time, but wasn't it said that the last Super Saiya-jin was supposed to be alive about 1,000 years before Goku achieved it? And that must have been on a different planet, and the Siaya-jins didn't have the technology to leave their home planet until after the Planet was first conquered. That would mean that the Planet was taken from the Tsufuru over a thousand years ago and that it must have been first ruled by someone other than Vegeta's father.

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:48 pm

The war between the saiyans and the Tsuru end in Age 730.
The alliance with Freeza begin in 731, and Planet Vegeta is destroyed 6 years later in 737.

The previous Legendary Super Saiyan appear in Age -238, the saiyans land on Planet Plant in 550.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:49 pm

Stargazer wrote:The war between the saiyans and the Tsuru end in Age 730.
The alliance with Freeza begin in 731, and Planet Vegeta is destroyed 6 years later in 737.

The previous Legendary Super Saiyan appear in Age -238, the saiyans land on Planet Plant in 550.

Then Vegeta's father must have been the king when the planet was reestablished. Wow, I never realized how short lived Planet Vegeta was, it's kind of weird how the Saiya-jins had so much pride in their race even though they'd only had their own planet for seven years. Now I'm really wondering where the Saiya-jins are from, and what their civilization was like and how they ever managed to get to Planet Plant.

Thanks for the information Stargazer!

Oh ya, one more thing, where did you find all of this information?

Post by **Herms** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:58 pm

SSj_Rambo wrote:Oh ya, one more thing, where did you find all of this information?

The dates are all from Daizenshuu 7, and might have been reprinted in the GT Perfect Files books, which also have a timeline. The information that Vegeta's father was the one who overthrew the Tsuru is from the not-quite-OVA, and turns up again in GT. The thing about the Saiyans arriving on Planet Plant in a spaceship is also from the OVA, as is the whole thing with Planet Vegeta originally being "Planet Plant" before the Saiyans took over.

And just to clarify again, all the specific history of the Saiyans is anime-only. All we really know about their history from the manga is that they were destroyed by Freeza about 30 years before the Saiyan/Freeza arc. Manga wise they're no indication of how long their planet-selling operation lasted.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:03 pm

But since the "not-quite-OVA" is a major inconsistency in the main time-line, is anything in it actually considered canon? And is there any other evidence that supports the theory that the Saiya-jins came from another planet and the original name being Plant?

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:07 pm

Nothing in the manga, no. But I think Toriyama pitched the idea for the Tsufuru (Tsfrui? I've never thought about a proper transliteration), and did some designs.

Post by **Herms** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:27 pm

SSj_Rambo wrote:But since the "not-quite-OVA" is a major inconsistency in the main time-line, is anything in it actually considered canon? And is there any other evidence that supports the theory that the Saiya-jins came from another planet and the original name being Plant?

Well, depends on what you mean by "canon". For most fans, anything outside the manga and/or Toriyama's direct involvement is not part of the canon, so by that definition it wouldn't be. Toei seems to have considered it "canon" to some degree (though they wouldn't have thought of it in those terms), since they used parts of its Saiyan backstory for GT. The Daizenshuu 7 timeline (which it should be noted is probably the strangest thing in the daizenshuu, mixing the manga, anime, movies and other things all together indiscriminately, which nothing else in any of the daizenshuu do) includes events from the [too lazy to keep putting "not-quite-"] OVA, like Dr. Raichi's death and the launching of Hatchyakku into space. However, it notably doesn't include any of the main events of the OVA (Goku and the others fighting Dr. Rachi and such), so it's hard to say. However, Daizenshuu 3 (the first anime guide) has page on the history of the Saiyans, and it repeats the whole thing about Planet Plant and the Saiyans arriving by spaceship, and cites the OVA. So I'd say that while the main events of the OVA (Goku's and co.'s adventure) isn't seen as in continuity with the rest of the DB anime, the general backstory that is featured in it (Saiyans immigrating to Planet Plant) is seen as their official history in the anime. So in that sense it would be "anime canon".

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:55 pm

The problem with the GT Tuffles and the GT Saiya-jin backstory is that they're non canon to their Z counterparts. Now, I know I just lost a few people, so I'll explain. When the Tuffles are first introduced, and we first get the Saiya-jin backstory, we're told that the two races both evolved on Planet Vegeta. The Tuffles were tiny little people (about up to a normal Saiya-jin's (not an Oozaru, just a normal one) knee, but extremely highly technologically advanced. The saiya-jins, however, very primitive.

We're also told that the two races lived in an uneasy peace for quite some time. Occasional Saiya-jin attacks on Tuffle cities would occur, but they'd be driven back by Tuffle technology. But then one night a Full Moon occured and in the span of just that night the rampaging Oozaru's wiped out the entire Tuffle civilzation, became the rulers of the planet, and started trying to figure out the Tuffle technology.

The mis-match here is in a few places. First, the Saiya-jins were originally native to the same world as the Tuffles, both having evolved there side-by-side. Second, in the original telling the Saiya-jins were cavemen, and thus could not have traveled to the world. Thirdly, the Tuffles we see in the original flash back are really a benign people, which clashes with Bebi's entire personality. And lastly, Bebi looks nothing like them at all, even ignoring the mechanized look.

Personally, I ignore all of the details from the NES-game-video-guide-turned-FMV-interactive-movie-game-and-not-quite-OVA and GT when it comes to the Saiya-jin's past and the stuff for the Tuffles and stick to just the limited information we got from the initial flashbacks concerning them. To do otherwise leaves way too many open holes. Why were the Saiya-jins traveling through space? How did they have a space ship if they weren't advanced enough to build one? Why didn't they wipe out the Tuffles as soon as they landed? Why'd they pick "Planet Plant" in the first place? Howcome they didn't meet Freeza or his men while they were in space?

Also, towards the original question about the naming of the planet after the king. Possible, in the anime, but the manga never names Vegeta's father. For all we know he wasn't even named Vegeta. TripleRach once proposed a personal theory of her own in chat when we were discussing this. That being not that the world was named after the Royal line but that Vegeta (the one we know) was named after their world because he was so damned powerful.

'course, there's no more fact to that idea than the idea that the world was named after the royal family or that Vegeta's father was also a named Vegeta. But in the end, since the manga doesn't tell us enough to know for certain, both are plausible.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:04 am

Xyex wrote:For all we know he wasn't even named Vegeta. TripleRach once proposed a personal theory of her own in chat when we were discussing this. That being not that the world was named after the Royal line but that Vegeta (the one we know) was named after their world because he was so damned powerful.

Nappa outright states this.

Vol. 3, page 142

Nappa: Curse you...curse you to hell, boy [Goku]... Making me surrender your execution to Vegeta...
*pagebreak*
Nappa: Heh. Well, you'll be damned sorry it ever happened. There's a reason he's named after the planet Vegeta itself...

Post by **Herms** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:17 am

@Xyex:

1. DBZ episode 20 doesn’t state that the Saiyans (or the Tsufuru for that matter) evolved on Planet Vegeta, merely that they both lived there.

2. That episode already establishes that the Saiyans are capable of stealing technology from more advanced races, so the spaceship they arrived on could be another example of that.

3. The reason Baby is malign is because of his desire to get revenge on the Saiyans. There’s nothing in GT to indicate the original Tsufuru were evil like him. I think Baby even says at one point that the Tsufuru were peaceful, making the Saiyans’ act of wiping them out even worse.

4. In GT’s Tsufuru flashback, the Tsufuru were shown as human-looking, like they are in DBZ episode 20. So Baby’s different look is due to his metal mutant nature.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:39 am

Rocketman wrote:
Xyex wrote:For all we know he wasn't even named Vegeta. TripleRach once proposed a personal theory of her own in chat when we were discussing this. That being not that the world was named after the Royal line but that Vegeta (the one we know) was named after their world because he was so damned powerful.
Nappa outright states this.

Vol. 3, page 142

Nappa: Curse you...curse you to hell, boy [Goku]... Making me surrender your execution to Vegeta...
*pagebreak*
Nappa: Heh. Well, you'll be damned sorry it ever happened. There's a reason he's named after the planet Vegeta itself...

The original Japanese line is even more to the point:

"The reason he received the name of our planet Vegeta was because he was a prodigy as a warrior..."

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:12 am

How does being a top class fighter get you named after a planet? I'm not seeing the connection.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:40 am

Well, he was the prince, too...

Maybe the king had a ton of different wives and children, and Vegeta was the strongest (stronger than his own father when he "was still a brat," he says), so he was next in line for the throne?

Post by **TripleRach** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:10 am

Yeah, Xyex, that wasn't my theory per se. My theory was that because the manga says Vegeta was named after the planet, his father quite possibly had a different name altogether in that continuity. But we'll probably never know.

Post by **Herms** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:33 pm

TripleRach wrote:Yeah, Xyex, that wasn't my theory per se. My theory was that because the manga says Vegeta was named after the planet, his father quite possibly had a different name altogether in that continuity. But we'll probably never know.

*30 years ago, on Planet Vegeta*

King Jebidaiha Horsleypants II: What shall we name our new son, my queen? How about Jebidaiha Horsleypants III?

Queen Jebidaiha Horsleypants: He looks pretty strong for a baby. Why don’t we name him after the planet?

King Jebidaiha Horsleypant II: That works too.

The untold story.

Kroni_Hunter · Post by **Kroni_Hunter** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:53 pm

None of the backstory involving the tsufuru is canon, so really you can believe whatever you want to believe. I don't see how the saiyans could have stolen that many ships to travel to another planet, they would have had to basically conquer an entire race and if that was the case why not just stay on that planet? And even if they had for whatever reason decided to move, you'd think those ships would have came with some decent firepower that they could have employed against the tsufuru. Plus as someone said earlier it seems strange they would have so much pride in a planet they barely inhabited. Plus in the episode "Legend of the Saiyans" they talk about how once the tsufuru were gone they couldnt travel through space. Does that mean the spaceships were destroyed or they dumb saiyans just couldn't figure out how to get them to work? They wound up meeting some species called the Akosians, who i'm guessing work for frieza and wound up stumbling upon planet vegeta. The akosians were the ones who gave them the technology.

Post by **Herms** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:11 pm

Kroni_Hunter wrote:I don't see how the saiyans could have stolen that many ships to travel to another planet, they would have had to basically conquer an entire race and if that was the case why not just stay on that planet?

It was just one ship (apparently a rather large one). Raditz says that the Saiyan were never very numerous.

Plus as someone said earlier it seems strange they would have so much pride in a planet they barely inhabited. Plus in the episode "Legend of the Saiyans" they talk about how once the tsufuru were gone they couldnt travel through space. Does that mean the spaceships were destroyed or they dumb saiyans just couldn't figure out how to get them to work? They wound up meeting some species called the Akosians, who i'm guessing work for Freeza and wound up stumbling upon planet vegeta. The akosians were the ones who gave them the technology.

Well, I don't think the Saiyans are ever shown having much pride in their planet, just their race itself. As for all that stuff about the Saiyans not being able to travel through space once the Tsuru were gone, and them meeting the Akosians, I don't remeber that at all. Is that supposed to be from the Saiyan flashback episode (DBZ episode 20)? I'm pretty sure none of that's in the original. It might be stuff added in the dub.