Dragon Ball Daima Strength Discussion Thread

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Also, Piccolo has a known history of almost constantly miscalculating shit from Namek all the way to Super Buu, the latter of which is especially notable because it was the story deliberately poking fun at him mixing up basic stuff about the time chamber.

His comment about Shin was likely no exception. Similar to the time chamber thing where he says he was too frazzled to think straight, he was so shocked about Shin's high status that he couldn't accurately assess how strong he actually was.

This is eye-opening. Everybody likes to see Piccolo as the voice of reason in the series, but when you think about it he’s second only to Vegeta in how often he’s wrong.

My favorite Piccolo fuck up is when he tries to run away from 3rd form Freeza. Like Piccolo, even if you are faster, where are you even going brother?

[Yuji]

My favourite Piccolo strategy is getting one shot by Dr. Gero only to claim he was playing dead. If you were stronger than Gero to begin with, why bother, Goku would die if Vegeta didn't step in. Obviously a case of Toriyama not thinking ahead and making Piccolo stronger later, but it's funny in retrospect.

Or how his dumb strategies kept getting countered by Goku in the 23rd Budokai.

[Koitsukai]

My favourite Piccolo strategy is getting one shot by Dr. Gero only to claim he was playing dead. If you were stronger than Gero to begin with, why bother, Goku would die if Vegeta didn't step in. Obviously a case of Toriyama not thinking ahead and making Piccolo stronger later, but it's funny in retrospect.

Or how his dumb strategies kept getting countered by Goku in the 23rd Budokai.

I can only read that as Toriyama changing his mind while the ball was in the air. I could never make sense of him playing dead while two androids were loose and the only SS, he knew of, was having a heart attack.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

To be fair, Piccolo had no idea how strong 20 was, and even if he did, there’s a good chance 19 and 20 together would’ve been too much for him.

Cell Saga Piccolo was pretty smart, especially after he fused with Kami.

[Mr Baggins]

Cell Saga Piccolo was pretty smart, especially after he fused with Kami.

One of Piccolo's biggest slip-ups in the Cell arc happens after he merges with Kami, though. He keeps fighting 17 well after seeing he's too evenly matched with him to kill the Androids, leading Cell right to them – something the story also acknowledges because he berates himself for not thinking straight, again.

I love Piccolo, but there's definitely a running theme here.

[DBZ Macky]

I'm beginning to think that reading too much into the power scaling of the Base Saiyans is a waste of time.

They are consistently shown to be able to hold their own against much stonger opponents, the best recent example being Base Vegeta fighting decently against Gomah and Base Goku fighting evenly against Ikari Broly in the movie.

I think power levels just really don't matter that much in a fight when it comes to transformations. Base Goku in the Buu arc could simultaneously be weaker than and totally defeat Freeza, Piccolo, Shin and heck even Cell since the Other World / Paikuhan filler does exist whether you want to take it into consideration or not.

Imo, at least in the Anime:
Base Goku fighting skillfully = SS2 Goku fighting casually
Examples: Goku vs Paikuhan, Goku vs SS2 Caulifla

SS Goku fighting skillfully > SS3 Goku fighting casually
Example: SS Goku vs Gohan inside Buu

[super michael]

I have been thinking about Majin Duu and Majin Kuu, I think they should be able to gain more power by either getting older or training. Both Majin Duu and Majin Kuu are both less than 1 years old, while Majin Buu is in the millions.

[Almighty Majin]

I have been thinking about Majin Duu and Majin Kuu, I think they should be able to gain more power by either getting older or training. Both Majin Duu and Majin Kuu are both less than 1 years old, while Majin Buu is in the millions.

They definitely could, they are both prodigies in their own right. After seeing Goku and Vegeta's performances against Gomah those two would surely be inspired to train and get stronger.

[Rhadon]

I have been thinking about Majin Duu and Majin Kuu, I think they should be able to gain more power by either getting older or training. Both Majin Duu and Majin Kuu are both less than 1 years old, while Majin Buu is in the millions.

and he was locked away for millions of years lol.

[Koitsukai]

How strong were Chibi SS3 Vegeta aka Ultra Vegeta 1, and Chibi SS4 Goku?

Compared to DBZ enemies? were do you guys rank them? how would they do if they were present during the Buu arc? would that be too much for them?
How about the Cell arc? is that more suitable for them?

And how strong is Kuu? can be take on Freeza, for instance?

[Hugo Boss]

For SS3 Vegeta (Mini), I’d say he’s definitely above SS2 Kid Gohan. Even as a kid, Vegeta seems extremely powerful, he was trading blows with Tamagamis that were stronger than Dabra and SS3 overwhelmed a powered-up Tamagami. That’s no joke.

SS4 Goku (Mini) is on another level entirely. He would probably wipe the floor with most Buu forms, maybe even Super Buu. He feels more like a high Buu tier fighter than a Cell era one.

As for Kuu, he’s tricky to gauge exactly, but yeah, I think he could take down Freeza without too much trouble. He was presented as a genuine warrior stronger than Supreme Kai level even before his fight kicked in, which already puts him above Namek era powerhouses.

[Haighter]

How strong were Chibi SS3 Vegeta aka Ultra Vegeta 1, and Chibi SS4 Goku?

Compared to DBZ enemies? were do you guys rank them? how would they do if they were present during the Buu arc? would that be too much for them?
How about the Cell arc? is that more suitable for them?

And how strong is Kuu? can be take on Freeza, for instance?

Given that we see Third Eye Gomah adapt to an attack from SS1 Adult Vegeta, it's very difficult in my mind to not put AT LEAST the Adult SS1s above the Mini SS3s. I personally have Adult SS1s equal to Mini SS4 (with SS4 being 2.5x SS3).

The Tamagami > Dabra statements and the performance of the Adults vs Gomah are contentious, so you're not going to see much consistency in how people view the Chibi nerf. I err on the side of taking what we see at face value, making the Mini characters much weaker than their adult selves, and by extension nerfing Dabra quite a bit prior to his Majin boost.

My numbers put the Mini SS1s equal to SS Goku on Namek and the SS3s around the level of Vegeta, Trunks, and the Cell Jrs. at the Cell Games. With the extremely limited info we have on Kuu, I have him just below Namek Freeza's 100%, and I have Duu w/o chocolate just above a Mini SS2 and just below a Mini SS3 w/ chocolate.

[Hugo Boss]

Honestly, if Dabra were really weaker than Namek SS Goku, that would imply Babidi’s boost is far greater than the Third Eye’s, which doesn’t really track with how both are portrayed.

I think it’s more consistent to see Gomah’s power as resetting after defeating SS4 Goku (Mini). It drops back down and then starts building up again while fighting the adult Saiyans. This makes more sense overall and avoids making the Babidi boost absurdly broken compared to everything else we see in Daima.

[Haighter]

Honestly, if Dabra were really weaker than Namek SS Goku, that would imply Babidi’s boost is far greater than the Third Eye’s, which doesn’t really track with how both are portrayed.

I think it’s more consistent to see Gomah’s power as resetting after defeating SS4 Goku (Mini). It drops back down and then starts building up again while fighting the adult Saiyans. This makes more sense overall and avoids making the Babidi boost absurdly broken compared to everything else we see in Daima.

That's definitely possible. To me, it ultimately comes down to which information you want to prioritize. When I make a Strength or BP list for characters from the Boo arc, it will have different numbers depending on if I include Super or limit it to just the original manga. Daima forces a reevaluation of Babidi, Dabra, and Shin if you choose to prioritize it over the original manga or Super.