Has Super and Daima replaced Z and GT in the modern era?

[mecha3000]

So, I was playing as Mini Goku/Vegeta against characters like Zamasu and Jiren in Sparking! Zero recently and it made me consider something. Are Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball Daima the new "Dragon Ball Z" and "Dragon Ball GT" as far as modern Dragon Ball is concerned? I mean, Super has ran as a manga (not counting the hiatus) since 2015. That means, next year in 2026, it will have been running for ELEVEN YEARS. The significance of that? The original Dragon Ball manga ran from 1984 to 1995, also eleven years. So, if Super was weekly instead of monthly, it would probably have close to 42 volumes like the original manga. But honestly, the current 24 volumes it has is already a good amount. As for Daima, Akio Iyoku came out and officially said GT was inspiration for Daima, which, yes, was obvious. Still, even reintroducing SPOILERS Super Saiyan 4 was significant in that now there are two versions of Super Saiyan 4 between GT and Daima.

And when I think about it, if I'm a young kid DB fan today, watching the older animated Z and GT from the '90s (especially the dub and all its faults) doesn't seem as appealing as the more modern animation of Super and Daima from the 2010s and 2020s. Also, Super even has its own two movies, in my opinion, the best in the franchise. Super's Ultra Instinct in some ways replaced Super Saiyan in pop cultural relevance. And in some ways, Daima's Super Saiyan 4 has done the same thing when compared to the original GT form (I still prefer GT's version, though).

Again, playing SSJ Mini Goku vs. Zamasu in Zero might as well have been SSJ Kid Goku (GT) vs. Cell in Tenkaichi 3. I don't know if I'm making sense, but it's just interesting that although still iconic in their own right, Z and GT now have modern day counterparts, in my opinion.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't think so.

The Dragon Ball Z brand is probably never going to go away because its the most known of all the series. I still see it everywhere on merchandise, and to a lesser extent Super. I remember walking out of the theatre seeing Super Hero and a kid looking at the poster saying it was a Dragon Ball Z movie.

Dragon Ball GT may not have the same kind of cultural significance as Dragon Ball Z, but we will likely still see the Super Saiyan 4 design we know from it for years to come in video games, as well as characters like Baby. Although it is rare to see Dragon Ball GT's name on anything other than home releases there was the anime comic, which was released in Shueisha’s Saikyō Jump magazine between 2013 and 2023, so the branding will still be used where it can make money.

[mecha3000]

I don't think so.

The Dragon Ball Z brand is probably never going to go away because its the most known of all the series. I still see it everywhere on merchandise, and to a lesser extent Super. I remember walking out of the theatre seeing Super Hero and a kid looking at the poster saying it was a Dragon Ball Z movie.

Dragon Ball GT may not have the same kind of cultural significance as Dragon Ball Z, but we will likely still see the Super Saiyan 4 design we know from it for years to come in video games, as well as characters like Baby. Although it is rare to see Dragon Ball GT's name on anything other than home releases there was the anime comic, which was released in Shueisha’s Saikyō Jump magazine between 2013 and 2023, so the branding will still be used where it can make money.

I agree with you completely and maybe I've misjudged the younger fans, but I'm not saying Z and GT are irrelevant now and no longer iconic because of Super and Daima (my thread title was being retitled to be more clear as you posted your comment). Z will definitely always be the most iconic part of Dragon Ball, but I still stand by my opinion of Super and Daima being modern counterparts to Z and GT for the 2010s/2020s. And I just don't see a younger fan who is like, 9 years old, watching old school animated Z and GT over Super and Daima's new animation. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know.

[super michael]

DBS and Daima are sequels of DBZ Boo Saga, that means if they skip DBZ then they wouldn't know or understand the story in DBS. They wouldn't know the characters, transformation and technique story behind it.

Although DBS they did a terrible job when it comes to writing some characters. DBS Goku doesn't feel like Goku at all. Chi Chi, Boo, Goten and Trunks they were written really bad.

[MasenkoHA]

Super isn’t really a counterpart to Z as it’s a sequel that rides heavy on the nostalgia of millennials to exist and get away with being so incompetently put together for the first 6 months of its existence. By its nature it can’t replace Z.

It also immediately followed glorified reruns of Z (Kai) airing a week after Buu Kai wrapped up in Japan so Toei/Fuji Tv were banking on its new younger audience at least being somewhat familiar with Z via its HD recut

Hell, Kai has made a bigger claim to replace Z than Super and I don’t think it has either. From what I understand it was a failure in Japan from a marketing and branding perspective. And despite a big push by Funimation for Kai to replace Z “No we got it right this time. It’s closer to Toriyama’s vision. Our performances are so much better” crappy remastered boxsets of Z still outsold Kai and Funimation pretty much gave up on Kai and stopped acknowledging its existence in favor of whoring out Z again.


And Daima idk it seems like the response to it has been mostly…crickets? I know people watched it because clips will show up on my Instagram recommended reels but it didn’t seem to inspire much love or hate? Super Saiyan 4 becoming “canon”’was probably the most talked about thing and if anything that just validated GT as an entry to the series more.

[Koitsukai]

I don't know.
DBS cannot replace something is following up on. Maybe it could replace GT, but it's such a different take from GT that it works as an alternate route rather than a replacement.

However, Daima does seems to be here to replace GT in some way. The introduction of SS4, in such a different way, seems like it's trying to take its place, although it will never be able to do that.
One could say it's also replacing DBS because, well, it deviates from it, but it also shares many things with it, making it feel more like an alternative route.


But I can see DBS as the XXI Century's DBZ; and Daima as the XXI Century's DBGT, sure.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I completely agree with this. Super has (unfortunately) become the face of the franchise for newer fans, just like Z was back in the day for older ones. Daima also seems to be in that GT category where some fans like it, others don't, while some are just neutral about it.

With that said, it still remains to be seen if both will be relevant decades after their conclusion like the classic series were.

DBS and Daima are sequels of DBZ Boo Saga, that means if they skip DBZ then they wouldn't know or understand the story in DBS.

I've read so many comments of people who actually got into the franchise through Super.

Super isn’t really a counterpart to Z as it’s a sequel that rides heavy on the nostalgia of millennials to exist and get away with being so incompetently put together for the first 6 months of its existence. By its nature it can’t replace Z.

I think the topic is about whether or not Z or Super is what new fans think about when DB is brought up. Super has, at least based on comments I've read here and there, taken over Z's place as the face of the franchise for newer people.

And Daima idk it seems like the response to it has been mostly…crickets?

Turning everyone into kids was a bad idea back in the 90s, and it was a bad idea now. The one thing GT still had going for it was that it eventually dropped its lighthearted stories and returned to the serious tone set by mid-DB and Z. Daima never did that.

Super Saiyan 4 becoming “canon”’ just validated GT as an entry to the series more.

I completely agree. Any debate over GT's legitimacy was pretty much killed thanks to Daima. It may not have been as good as DB & Z, but there's no question now that the people in charge of the franchise recognize it as being just as important and on equal footing as those two series. As someone who's always been annoyed to see GT get dismissed by fans, this makes me very happy.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

And despite a big push by Funimation for Kai to replace Z “No we got it right this time. It’s closer to Toriyama’s vision. Our performances are so much better” crappy remastered boxsets of Z still outsold Kai and Funimation pretty much gave up on Kai and stopped acknowledging its existence in favor of whoring out Z again.

Apart from the dub even Funimation didn't do a good job of that. None of the commercials for Kai's DVDs and Blu-Rays used the word "uncut", which led to some confusion about the Nicktoons cut of Kai being the only version of the show that existed. Unsurprisingly, as you say Dragon Ball Z sold much better in spite of the efforts Sean Schemmel, Chris Sabat et al made to promote Kai as being the dub they were most proud of.

[SupremeKai25]

It certainly did on the cover art of Sparking Zero, which contains only Super characters. (The cover features Super Freeza, as he has a halo like in the Tournament of Power)



Very, very interesting. I think this might be the first big Dragon Ball videogame whose cover features Super more than Z. (or ONLY Super erally)

The intro cinematic was also interesting with how it heavily featured Goku Black, Jiren, and New Broly instead of, idk, Old Broly, Cell, and Buu. (and there was also Baby to let GT have something)

But there's still one thing Z has that Super doesn't yet, at least when it comes to internet discourse: Childhood nostalgia. So I will say with confidence that Z is, I don't know how to put it, "more widely beloved" than Super.

It will certainly be interesting to see how the internet discourse about Super will evolve in the coming years, with the next big generation shift.

[MasenkoHA]

And despite a big push by Funimation for Kai to replace Z “No we got it right this time. It’s closer to Toriyama’s vision. Our performances are so much better” crappy remastered boxsets of Z still outsold Kai and Funimation pretty much gave up on Kai and stopped acknowledging its existence in favor of whoring out Z again.

Apart from the dub even Funimation didn't do a good job of that. None of the commercials for Kai's DVDs and Blu-Rays used the word "uncut", which led to some confusion about the Nicktoons cut of Kai being the only version of the show that existed. Unsurprisingly, as you say Dragon Ball Z sold much better in spite of the efforts Sean Schemmel, Chris Sabat et al made to promote Kai as being the dub they were most proud of.

Even worse, back in the day a lot of people assumed the CW4Kids edit of Kai was the actual Kai and it got frustrating explaining no Blue Popo and glowing orbs replacing halos and added sparkles to explosions and breathing corpses wasn’t the actual Dragon Ball Z Kai


Ironically, there seems to be a complete reversal where now there are fans who don’t get that “uncut” Kai is still censored from Dragon Ball Z

But yeah Funimation did not do a good job advertising that the Dragon Ball Z Kai on home video wasn’t the same Y7 FV approved product that had been airing on tv.

[JulieYBM]

Kinda, basically. Things change over time and Dragon Ball Super definitely seems to have taken on the same sort of role that Dragon Ball Z does in terms of being the 'serious series' that fans want to pick apart for the sake of feeding into the sort of ever-growing (re: cancerous) sense of progression of strength and whatnot. Similarly, Dragon Ball Daima fulfils a role as a series that is focused on being a 'short' adventure side-story thing that has much of the same elements as Dragon Ball GT did—to the extent of being an intentional homage. I think that Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball Daima play very similar roles in the current landscape of fandom discourse.

[super michael]

It certainly did on the cover art of Sparking Zero, which contains only Super characters. (The cover features Super Freeza, as he has a halo like in the Tournament of Power)



Very, very interesting. I think this might be the first big Dragon Ball videogame whose cover features Super more than Z. (or ONLY Super erally)

The intro cinematic was also interesting with how it heavily featured Goku Black, Jiren, and New Broly instead of, idk, Old Broly, Cell, and Buu. (and there was also Baby to let GT have something)

But there's still one thing Z has that Super doesn't yet, at least when it comes to internet discourse: Childhood nostalgia. So I will say with confidence that Z is, I don't know how to put it, "more widely beloved" than Super.

It will certainly be interesting to see how the internet discourse about Super will evolve in the coming years, with the next big generation shift.

Nostalgia isn't the reason why people prefers DBZ or why it is beloved. DBS ruined many characters, because they didn't want to put the effort in their writing. The only thing they cared was making their character dumb for no reason at all or forbid fighters.

DBS Super Hero Goku is written really bad. He doesn't look like a experienced fighter at all, but a immature brat who believes brute force and muscles is the answer. That goes against everything what Goku believes.

I am glad in the manga they improved Goku a lot in DBS Super Hero.

The intelligence Goku displayed in the episode of Beerus in a costume, that contradicts everything in Dragon Ball.


In DBS Goten and Trunks were forbidden from fighting and Boo was always asleep. Did they really need to keep showing them being forbidden? No they did not.



I started with DBZ, but I still enjoy Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT. I enjoy Daima also, which I hope it gets more sequel.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Nostalgia isn't the reason why people prefers DBZ or why it is beloved.

The only way Super's fanboys can justify liking it is by downplaying the quality and achievements of the classic series.

[VegettoEX]

Nostalgia isn't the reason why people prefers DBZ or why it is beloved.

The only way Super's fanboys can justify liking it is by downplaying the quality and achievements of the classic series.

Let's have real, genuine conversations instead of antagonistic, sweeping generalizations.

This is one and only free warning on the subject.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Let's have real, genuine conversations instead of antagonistic, sweeping generalizations.

Super's fans have been downplaying the accomplishments of the original series for years now, it's nothing new. Why is it acceptable for them to do that, but not acceptable to respond and call them out on it ? If you're going to say something absurd like Z only being liked for "childhood nostalgia", then be prepared to get called out on it. I've been a major fanboy (I do not consider this word an insult) of both DB & Z for over two decades now, and never once did I feel the need to downplay what another series accomplished in order to justify my love for them. If you're someone who loves Super, then more power to you, I have absolutely nothing against anyone who likes it or any other part of the franchise. The issue I take however is when some of its fans feel the need to try to make the classic series look bad as some way of justifying liking Super. This is of course not exactly exclusive to DB, as I've seen other communities do the same (Star Wars & MCU come to mind) in order to justify liking the newer, seemingly less popular material. Come to think of it, back in the early 2000s, it was pretty popular for fans of Bleach, Naruto, & One Piece to hate on DB, so it's not exactly the first time I've seen this happen. I love all three of those series, it's just something I thought I'd mention.

If I've said anything on this topic or any other topic that came off as a personal insult to anyone, I am genuinely sorry. I would never make things personal over an animated series.

[JulieYBM]

Let's have real, genuine conversations instead of antagonistic, sweeping generalizations.

Super's fans have been downplaying the accomplishments of the original series for years now, it's nothing new. Why is it acceptable for them to do that, but not acceptable to respond and call them out on it ? If you're going to say something absurd like Z only being liked for "childhood nostalgia", then be prepared to get called out on it. I've been a major fanboy (I do not consider this word an insult) of both DB & Z for over two decades now, and never once did I feel the need to downplay what another series accomplished in order to justify my love for them. If you're someone who loves Super, then more power to you, I have absolutely nothing against anyone who likes it or any other part of the franchise. The issue I take however is when some of its fans feel the need to try to make the classic series look bad as some way of justifying liking Super. This is of course not exactly exclusive to DB, as I've seen other communities do the same (Star Wars & MCU come to mind) in order to justify liking the newer, seemingly less popular material. Come to think of it, back in the early 2000s, it was pretty popular for fans of Bleach, Naruto, & One Piece to hate on DB, so it's not exactly the first time I've seen this happen. I love all three of those series, it's just something I thought I'd mention.

If I've said anything on this topic or any other topic that came off as a personal insult to anyone, I am genuinely sorry. I would never make things personal over an animated series.

Obviously, I'm not Mike nor am I one of these fable 'fanboys', but I do want to say that I think you’re making a mountain out of a molehill when you could be talking about something you like instead.

You're not exactly saying anything while also tossing a lot of broad statements around. You aren't even criticizing an individual for their take, so it's not exactly an actual discussion going on. What is there for anyone to say in response to what you’re going on about?

But also, like...who cares if someone is 'downplaying' something else. It isn't going to change your opinion on the subject, is it?

[SupremeKai25]

I don't know why my post was misinterpreted as if I was talking about the quality of Z or Super, or even saying that Z is liked only because of the nostalgia. I am being neutral and objective, it is truly not my aim to compare the two series in terms of quality.

"Have Super and Daima replaced Z in the modern era?"... Simply put, NO, because everyone still has nostalgia of Z and thinks about Z, because Z is a part of their childhood, and Super has not been around long enough to replace that. I mean, isn't that one of the main things said against modern Dragon Ball? That it keeps pandering to nostalgia?

Although it's certainly interesting how the intro to Sparking Zero pandered to the Super nostalgia, with that iconic Tournament of Power OST. Equally interesting are the numbers of What-if scenarios centred around Super arcs in that videogame, which I don't believe has ever been done before.

[mecha3000]

I just want to add something else (assuming this thread still has any ounce of traction, at this point). I think something that illustrates my point perfectly is all the comments and posts across various forums/social media/sites asking "WHEN IS SUPER COMING BACK?!!!!" and "WHEN WILL THEY ADAPT MORO AND GRANOLAH?!!!!" Back in the day, those questions would've been "WILL WE EVER GET A NEW DRAGON BALL SERIES?" or "ARE THEY GOING TO EVER MAKE MORE DRAGON BALL Z EPISODES?!!!"

Well, now, the return of Super is what most people are focused on. Even after Daima has come and gone, Super is still where everyone's attention is. I dare say, Super HAS replaced Z in the modern era of Dragon Ball and I'm not even a huge fan of Super. For the people saying "Z is still the main brand and promoted everywhere at stores on cereal boxes/shirts and what not", well, that doesn't mean it's still the main focus. Z is just easy to market from a nostalgic standpoint, but are they really doing anything else with the Z brand at this point? Even video games dropped the "Dragon Ball Z" branding and now just go by "Dragon Ball". I do admit that Super works best as a sequel to Z, though, and to some people is Z 2.0.

But nonetheless, the Super brand has stood strong for ten years at this point, even though the anime ended in 2018 and the manga went on hiatus a while back. I think we need to at least acknowledge that fact. And even the whole "Are Super/Daima canon with each other?" debate kind of mirrors the classic "Is GT canon to Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z?" debate in a way.

EDIT: Also, like someone else pointed out, Sparking Zero's box art is Super-focused, not Z-focused. And the intro is Super's second opening theme and not Cha-La Head Cha-La, like in other games.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Even after Daima has come and gone, Super is still where everyone's attention is.

Fans were still focused on Super even during Daima's run and leading up to it. Here's a question: would Daima have done better had it released after the Moro and Granola arcs been animated ? This reminds me of a situation back in the day with the 2003 TMNT series, where the show went in a different direction after season 4 with Fast Forward, seemingly abandoning the planned Ninja Tribunal arc.

[GokuHater]

I doubt it.
I mean with GT it may vary. I don't think GT is in the same tier of popularity as Super and Z but then again... There's a lots of nostalgia with it.

But for Z vs Super? Not even close in my opinion. Z is still seen as the unquestioned and most popular mountain of Dragon Ball anything. The character designs, the story, SSJ, Cha la head cha la and We Gotta Power are still as popular as they were, maybe even more so (and I am not talking subjective, I actually prefer Dragon Ball og than Z )

Super IS also popular but not on the same tier in my opinion. People outside the franchise will recognise a fighter with blonde hair, with blue... Not so much.

Take into consideration the original Z is sometimes a pain to watch. Its incredibly fillery and sluggish (even for its own time) and yet it is still held to a pedestal. And even if one is to remove the pink glasses and see that the Z anime can actually be a pain to watch, there are so many ways to experience it - Kai, the manga... Heck, some folks even get into DB through Team Four Star.

DBZ story was done quadrillion times through video games, there were fan mangas written as a sequel to Z. I doubt it is going anywhere soon.

Super and Daima characters are hyped for video games right now cause Super and Daima are the hype for now but Z (and arguably GT) have so many years of popularity and nostalgia it won't be so easily replaced.