Why are we still stuck in the "10 years" period?

[MasenkoHA]

I doubt that there would be more of Goten and Trunks. Toriyama seemed wholly undisinterested in writing them and the other production committee members seemed disinterested in asking him to include more for them to do.

Pretty much. Toyo is like the first person in 30 years among all the people involved in DB to be actually interested in writing for Present!Trunks and Goten

I think the biggest issue facing Goten and Trunks is the screen time it would take away from Goku and Vegeta in order to properly develop them. We had to wait nearly a decade to finally get a story focused on Gohan and Piccolo, who are far more popular then Goten and Trunks.

That's... rather sad when you put it that way.

With Present!Trunks you at least get some of his personality as an individual in the main series proper and GT gave him some spotlight as an adult and even before that he had Movie 13 that puts him more in the center with Tapion.

When I think of Goten...does he even have a personality outside being Trunks' naive little playmate and Fusion Dance partner? I know the fandom talks about characters Toriyama forgot about or neglected but I don't think Goten is brought up when you realize how underdeveloped he is, especially as the second son of the main character.

He also likely only exist solely so kid Trunks had someone to interact with.

It’s kind of a trickle down effect.


Toriyama wanted to do a Vegeta’s Super Saiyan son from the future plot after seeing the Terminator 2 trailers. Got to show the present day version of the character as a baby of course. Well now Toriyama wants to age Gohan up to high school age since he’s ostensibly the new hero so here’s a 7 year timeskip. Okay but now he’s stuck with the present day version of Trunks who would be a little kid now and not just a baby. What do? Ehhh Goku and Chi Chi had a second child and that’s his playmate now


Trunks and Goten are just characters he got stuck with because of one Terminator inspired idea he had back in 1991

[Vegeta th3 4th]

When I think of Goten...does he even have a personality outside being Trunks' naive little playmate and Fusion Dance partner? I know the fandom talks about characters Toriyama forgot about or neglected but I don't think Goten is brought up when you realize how underdeveloped he is, especially as the second son of the main character.

One of the best things GT did was actually give Goten his separate life and personality away from Trunks. The groundwork was set during Z's epilogue, but GT, at least early on in the Baby arc, tried to give him some meaningful screen time beyond that. The biggest issue I have with modern Dragon Ball is that despite getting so many new stories, it feels like we got nothing at the same time due to how safe everything was played. Outside of Battle of Gods and Daima, everything feels more like glorified filler, rather than real stories pushing the characters and world forward. If a story doesn't develop the characters or expand the world, then it honestly has no business being told.

If I was put in charge of Dragon Ball (I know everyone here would love that ), I would keep those two stories I mentioned above, then move past the end of Z and focus completely on the next generation of characters. Goku and the rest of the old cast would function as mentor figures throughout the story, only taking part in fights during the most extreme of circumstances. The story would start by focusing on Goten, Trunks, Pan, Uub, Marron, but new characters will gradually be introduced throughout the story. I know Tarble isn't the most popular or liked, but I'd keep his story as well and see what can be done with someone like him.

[JulieYBM]

I doubt that there would be more of Goten and Trunks. Toriyama seemed wholly undisinterested in writing them and the other production committee members seemed disinterested in asking him to include more for them to do.

Pretty much. Toyo is like the first person in 30 years among all the people involved in DB to be actually interested in writing for Present!Trunks and Goten

I think the biggest issue facing Goten and Trunks is the screen time it would take away from Goku and Vegeta in order to properly develop them. We had to wait nearly a decade to finally get a story focused on Gohan and Piccolo, who are far more popular then Goten and Trunks.

That's... rather sad when you put it that way.

With Present!Trunks you at least get some of his personality as an individual in the main series proper and GT gave him some spotlight as an adult and even before that he had Movie 13 that puts him more in the center with Tapion.

When I think of Goten...does he even have a personality outside being Trunks' naive little playmate and Fusion Dance partner? I know the fandom talks about characters Toriyama forgot about or neglected but I don't think Goten is brought up when you realize how underdeveloped he is, especially as the second son of the main character.

Toyotaro seems to write Goten as being the serious and down-to-Earth parallel to Trunks, who is a lot more of the type to dream big and take what he wants. At least, that's how I've interpreted their scenes together in the Dragon Ball Super manga.

[dragonballhero]

Not going to lie to you all... at THIS point? I'm genuinely of the belief that there's a genuine mandate currently in effect that won't allow ANYONE (TOEI, Shueisha, etc.) to touch DB, post-Goku and Uub's departure. I'm sorry, but the fact that a LOT of Super feels like it could have flourished more OUTSIDE of the timeskip can't be overstated.

On a similar note, some of you on here have been talking about how egregious it is that Daima took back to the very beginning of the OG manga's final 10-year timeskip, and given the legal issues regarding Dragon Ball right now AND Iyoku's mentioning of DB having at least 40-50 years of content in the future, I can't help but wonder...

Is it possible that Daima was meant to serve as the 'starting point' to a new continuity separate from what Super gave us (like how BoG kicked off the current God-themed continuity)? For the record, I'm NOT saying that Super will be overwritten or anything. In fact, my theory is probably more in-line with how DB has treated Super in relation to GT.

Daima might be treated as a separate continuity from the other two, and allow Capsule Corp. Tokyo do its own Dragon Ball stuff going forward. Specifically in a way where they don't have to adhere to/address Super's content and get in trouble with Shueisha or whatever.

[Neon Z]

Daima might be treated as a separate continuity from the other two, and allow Capsule Corp. Tokyo do its own Dragon Ball stuff going forward. Specifically in a way where they don't have to adhere to/address Super's content and get in trouble with Shueisha or whatever.

Shuesha co-owns the original Dragonball too, not just Super. If there are creative differences going on between the owners now behind the scenes, it's probably why we're stuck in the current situation with no clear future for Dragonball.

[JulieYBM]

I do hope that things progress if we're going to be stuck in this weird situation where Iyoku Akio refuses to let other people have control over the series. The reason why these long-running titles work is because the anime staff are allowed to go off and do their own thing to some degree—this is best scene in how Dragon Ball Super's best episodes and such were where the anime staff were either doing their own things or expanding on threads that the comic was glossing over. What we need is for said anime staff to have more production and more freedom to do their own thing. Having the anime just repeat a comic verbatim is a waste of time and talent. If Iyoku Akio wants a tight grip over an animated adaption ala Dragon Ball Daima and Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero feeling so creatively stiff, then things aren't going to work for future Dragon Ball projects.

[SupremeKai25]

Because the ending of DBZ is perfect. From a writing standpoint, it is, simply, perfect. I have no other way to describe it. No ending is more fitting than Goku taking on a new pupil to start the next generation of Earth's warriors, going on new adventures with his pupil. It is an ending in the sense that the Earth seems to no longer be attacked by almighty villains, but it is also not an ending because Goku is still going on adventures. It is a cheerful, uplifting, carefree ending.

In contrast to this, the ending of GT totally doesn't fit Dragon Ball. It's too melancholic, it's trying way too hard to make you cry, which is not the spirit of Dragon Ball. The spirit of Dragon Ball is the constant quest for self-improvement and the exhilarating feeling of starting a new adventure into the unknown, a story that doesn't take itself too seriously.

The ending of the Super Anime is much more in line with the spirit of Dragon Ball, as there is no crying fest, just another sparring match in a familiar location, and the promise of new adventures on Goku's journey (which would be fulfilled by the Broly movie, the Super Hero movie, and, technically, the Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime).

The ending of DBZ is simply perfect. Understandably, you do not want to change a perfect ending. Why try to change it? You don't need to go beyond the ending to write new adventures, thanks to this convenient 10 years time gap between the death of Majin Buu and the actual end of Z.

Goku leaving to train Uub should remain the definitive ending of Dragon Ball. I do not want Super to go beyond that. Frankly, I do not want the Super Anime to return at all, since the ending of the Tournament of Power was so cheerful, uplifting, and inspiring, with its message that the journey to self-improvement never ends.

[dragonballhero]

Daima might be treated as a separate continuity from the other two, and allow Capsule Corp. Tokyo do its own Dragon Ball stuff going forward. Specifically in a way where they don't have to adhere to/address Super's content and get in trouble with Shueisha or whatever.

Shuesha co-owns the original Dragonball too, not just Super. If there are creative differences going on between the owners now behind the scenes, it's probably why we're stuck in the current situation with no clear future for Dragonball.

I do hope that things progress if we're going to be stuck in this weird situation where Iyoku Akio refuses to let other people have control over the series. The reason why these long-running titles work is because the anime staff are allowed to go off and do their own thing to some degree—this is best scene in how Dragon Ball Super's best episodes and such were where the anime staff were either doing their own things or expanding on threads that the comic was glossing over. What we need is for said anime staff to have more production and more freedom to do their own thing. Having the anime just repeat a comic verbatim is a waste of time and talent. If Iyoku Akio wants a tight grip over an animated adaption ala Dragon Ball Daima and Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero feeling so creatively stiff, then things aren't going to work for future Dragon Ball projects.

Man, I'm so torn. Given the rumors I've heard about Shueisha using AI for their IPs (DB included), I'd like for Iyoku to take control. But... if he's just going to pander to nostalgia and "play the hits" with Dragon Ball (Beast Gohan and Cell Max is something I'm not a fan of, personally speaking), then maybe they should just let DB's current era end with Black Frieza and take another long hiatus from there.

Because the ending of DBZ is perfect. From a writing standpoint, it is, simply, perfect. I have no other way to describe it. No ending is more fitting than Goku taking on a new pupil to start the next generation of Earth's warriors, going on new adventures with his pupil. It is an ending in the sense that the Earth seems to no longer be attacked by almighty villains, but it is also not an ending because Goku is still going on adventures. It is a cheerful, uplifting, carefree ending.

In contrast to this, the ending of GT totally doesn't fit Dragon Ball. It's too melancholic, it's trying way too hard to make you cry, which is not the spirit of Dragon Ball. The spirit of Dragon Ball is the constant quest for self-improvement and the exhilarating feeling of starting a new adventure into the unknown, a story that doesn't take itself too seriously.

The ending of the Super Anime is much more in line with the spirit of Dragon Ball, as there is no crying fest, just another sparring match in a familiar location, and the promise of new adventures on Goku's journey (which would be fulfilled by the Broly movie, the Super Hero movie, and, technically, the Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime).

The ending of DBZ is simply perfect. Understandably, you do not want to change a perfect ending. Why try to change it? You don't need to go beyond the ending to write new adventures, thanks to this convenient 10 years time gap between the death of Majin Buu and the actual end of Z.

Goku leaving to train Uub should remain the definitive ending of Dragon Ball. I do not want Super to go beyond that. Frankly, I do not want the Super Anime to return at all, since the ending of the Tournament of Power was so cheerful, uplifting, and inspiring, with its message that the journey to self-improvement never ends.

It's why I'm a fan of Neko Majin's take on the lives of Goku and the gang, post-EoZ. I've always been of the belief that following Majin Buu's rampage leading to Earth getting straight-up destroyed... well, you know how Toriyama mentioned how he can't see Dragon Ball's stakes escalating any higher than that, right? I just think it's almost poetic that Majin Buu, one of the (if not, THE) goofiest villains in the series, get to leave his mark as THE ultimate DB baddie. It's almost poetic (by DB's standards).

Not only that, but after everything Goku and his loved ones (ESPECIALLY his own family) have had to suffer through? It feels nice to have them be rewarded with such a long-lasting period of peace, you know? Frankly, I kind of wish Toriyama got an opportunity to just go whole-hog and make a light-hearted Dragon Ball series with gags on the level of Dr. Slump before he left us.

This is probably a spicy take, but if it were up to me, I would have just not let GT and Super be a thing at all.

[JulieYBM]

Man, I'm so torn. Given the rumors I've heard about Shueisha using AI for their IPs (DB included), I'd like for Iyoku to take control. But... if he's just going to pander to nostalgia and "play the hits" with Dragon Ball (Beast Gohan and Cell Max is something I'm not a fan of, personally speaking), then maybe they should just let DB's current era end with Black Frieza and take another long hiatus from there.

That AI bit was such a disgusting thing to hear about when it was first reported. I hate how executives treat art like it is all about crunching numbers and one will get the perfect, marketable product. The way to create successful art is to let artists be artists. I don't think Iyoku—as a steward of the franchise—has shown any degree of understanding this quite as much, either. He needs to understand that Toriyama is not the only person who can write good Dragon Ball or good art in general and he needs to look to the franchise's other creative forces to see what good art they have overseen the creation of, too.

[Saiya6Cit]

I doubt that there would be more of Goten and Trunks. Toriyama seemed wholly undisinterested in writing them and the other production committee members seemed disinterested in asking him to include more for them to do.

Pretty much. Toyo is like the first person in 30 years among all the people involved in DB to be actually interested in writing for Present!Trunks and Goten

I think the biggest issue facing Goten and Trunks is the screen time it would take away from Goku and Vegeta in order to properly develop them. We had to wait nearly a decade to finally get a story focused on Gohan and Piccolo, who are far more popular then Goten and Trunks.

That's... rather sad when you put it that way.

With Present!Trunks you at least get some of his personality as an individual in the main series proper and GT gave him some spotlight as an adult and even before that he had Movie 13 that puts him more in the center with Tapion.

When I think of Goten...does he even have a personality outside being Trunks' naive little playmate and Fusion Dance partner? I know the fandom talks about characters Toriyama forgot about or neglected but I don't think Goten is brought up when you realize how underdeveloped he is, especially as the second son of the main character.

I find it interesting that the topic moved towards Trunks and Goten. Because what they have done to Trunks deserves its own topic.... Giving Trunks a different personality each time is something else. I am talking of Z, GT and Super. And Xeno too. There is no consistency on those.

Dragon Ball GT will forever be my fave after Z. And of course it is canon. I wish more people would understand that anything that comes out under the official license of Sheisha and/or Toei Animation Japan IS canon. It does not matter if Toriyama was there or not. Dragon
Ball is a franchise. I welcome them to study the Star Wars franchise history, maybe by doing so, people would understand how these things work.

Daima first season was great. On the following seasons we could see more Trunks and Goten. And Pan. And Bra. And Krillin´s daughther. I would prefer for Daima to continue to be its own universe/timeline. Not part of GT, not part of Super either.

The "ten year period" is still a good idea because that way, the series continues right where it stopped.

[SupremeKai25]

It's why I'm a fan of Neko Majin's take on the lives of Goku and the gang, post-EoZ. I've always been of the belief that following Majin Buu's rampage leading to Earth getting straight-up destroyed... well, you know how Toriyama mentioned how he can't see Dragon Ball's stakes escalating any higher than that, right? I just think it's almost poetic that Majin Buu, one of the (if not, THE) goofiest villains in the series, get to leave his mark as THE ultimate DB baddie. It's almost poetic (by DB's standards).

Not only that, but after everything Goku and his loved ones (ESPECIALLY his own family) have had to suffer through? It feels nice to have them be rewarded with such a long-lasting period of peace, you know? Frankly, I kind of wish Toriyama got an opportunity to just go whole-hog and make a light-hearted Dragon Ball series with gags on the level of Dr. Slump before he left us.

This is probably a spicy take, but if it were up to me, I would have just not let GT and Super be a thing at all.

GT? Sure. Super? There's no reason to eliminate it. Super does not contradict your take, it does not negate the idea that Majin Buu was the greatest threat to Earth.

By introducing the concept of God ki, Super cleverly kept Majin Buu as the greatest threat, posthumously, because he inherited God ki from the Dai Kaioshin. We see in the Tournament of Power arc that Goku can sense Uub's energy when he's still a toddler. He's just that strong. In the Moro arc, Uub, still a toddler, makes up like 90% of the power that goes into the Genkidama that annihilates Planet form Moro.

How exactly Super changes, modifies, or detracts from the original ending? Super has gone to great lengths to keep the mystique surrounding Majin Buu as the ultimate eldritch threat. His reincarnation Uub, as a mere toddler, literally stuns SSB Vegeta by how much power he has.

As for your point that Super ruins the "long lasting period of peace," I actually agree with this. I don't like how Broly, Super Hero, and Moro bring war and chaos back to Earth. I wish instead that the writers had done something more with the other universes rather than go back to Earth-based threat, especially since the first two movies, Beerus and Golden Freeza, already presented new conflicts on Earth. Still, this isn't a deal-breaker for me.

Especially since, more often than not, Super kept its main conflicts AWAY from Earth. Hit and Jiren do not threaten the Earth directly, and neither do Black and Zamasu, as Present Zamasu was erased by Beerus before he could threaten the Main Earth. Granolah also doesn't threaten the Earth.

[Basaku]

That's... rather sad when you put it that way.

With Present!Trunks you at least get some of his personality as an individual in the main series proper and GT gave him some spotlight as an adult and even before that he had Movie 13 that puts him more in the center with Tapion.

When I think of Goten...does he even have a personality outside being Trunks' naive little playmate and Fusion Dance partner? I know the fandom talks about characters Toriyama forgot about or neglected but I don't think Goten is brought up when you realize how underdeveloped he is, especially as the second son of the main character.

I find it interesting that the topic moved towards Trunks and Goten. Because what they have done to Trunks deserves its own topic.... Giving Trunks a different personality each time is something else. I am talking of Z, GT and Super. And Xeno too. There is no consistency on those.

Yup, there is no consistiency so I hope for once that at least this time these personalities for Present!Trunks and Goten stick. They fit them and while Goten was less developed than Trunks in the SH prologue, the key bits were there - he seems to be written as an opposite of a popular ladies man Trunks who sucks at tech (which is a cool contrast to Bulma) while Goten is more reserved, into geeky tech stuff and campy media in contrast to his farm upbringing and tech-averse Goku.

One way or another, if they don't keep developing these 2 and giving them some more unique plots (separate from each other as well) it's gonna be a waste anyway, just like whatever GT tried to do with them ended up in. Modern DB is far too tocused on having Goku & Vegeta on screen 99% of the time and handing them 5 new transformations per week...