Vegeta calling Goku the number 1

[Dragon15]

When vegeta called goku the number 1against kid buu, it was proven earlier than he never saw gotenks ssj3 and gohan ultimate.

When goku make him agree to fuse into vegeto, we learn that vegeta didn’t know about super buu eating bulma and absorbing gotenks and gohan.

But Inside buu, he said he saw evil buu eat good buu.

It means vegeta had no idea about what hapened on earth from right before super buu got out of the rosat.

So Even if vegeta was sincere about goku being number 1, we can deduce that he was biased.

[PhantomSaiyan]

I view that scene less in a power-scaley way, because it's clear to me that Vegeta is simply reflecting on his relationship with Goku, anyone else is irrelevant, Gohan, Buu, Gotenks etc, in his head it's just between them two

It was never about being the unequivocally number one strongest in the universe or anything like that

[Bloodthroe]

Doesn't Vegeta say he was watching the events on Earth happening while he was with King Yemma
It's how he found out about Goku's SS3 and was offended that Goku held back against Majin Vegeta. Vegeta's sentiment about Goku being number 1 was more about him admitting Goku will always reach new heights that no one else has achieved. But the more time passes, the more Inthink Gotenks and Mystic Gohan were equal to Goku in power, not superior.

[Dragon15]

Doesn't Vegeta say he was watching the events on Earth happening while he was with King Yemma
It's how he found out about Goku's SS3 and was offended that Goku held back against Majin Vegeta. Vegeta's sentiment about Goku being number 1 was more about him admitting Goku will always reach new heights that no one else has achieved. But the more time passes, the more Inthink Gotenks and Mystic Gohan were equal to Goku in power, not superior.

But he didn't know about buu eating bulma and buu absorbing gohan. it means he stopped watching earth right before buu came out of the ROSAT

[GokuHater]

The scene always had less of a "Kakarotto, you are now the strongest in the whole Universe" and more of a "wow, Kakarotto, you really are better than me in every way and I accept I may not reach up to you" impact for me.

[TobyS]

He's admitting he's number 1 out of the 2 of them. It's 1st place in a race of 2.

That seemed clear to me in context powerscaling aside

[BernardoCairo]

It's not about raw power. Gaku was number one at that moment because he had the right mindset. This, in turn, led to his great strength.

Also, I don't think this means Vegeta would never try to match Goku again. Quite the opposite. Goku may have been number one at that moment, but by continuing to challenge himself, Vegeta can rival him again.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

It's not about raw power. Gaku was number one at that moment because he had the right mindset. This, in turn, led to his great strength.

Also, I don't think this means Vegeta would never try to match Goku again. Quite the opposite. Goku may have been number one at that moment, but by continuing to challenge himself, Vegeta can rival him again.

Ironically, after admitting that Goku was better than him, Vegeta ended up quickly overtaking everyone else in the years to follow both through sheer dedication AND being willing to humble himself, better able to catch up to and keep up with Goku.

I think the anime scene of him confronting Goku Black after training in the Room of Spirit and Time really sold the new paradigm well: Goku is his motivation, but not his obsession anymore. He has a healthier rivalry with Goku now since he can admit that Goku was plain better than him, which drives him to even greater heights.

[CodeOfMe]

I can't believe people are applying powerscaling logic to a character moment. Like, yeah, Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks were probably stronger than Goku (and I say "probably" because I don't want to get in a numbers battle), but that doesn't really matter because Vegeta, in this moment, is acknowledging that Goku has him beat - regardless of their actual power levels. Sure, Vegeta could train and get stronger, but Goku has an unstoppable drive - always fighting to improve and push his limits. It's not so much Vegeta admitting that his power is technically lesser than Goku's, it's him admitting that their reasons for engaging in combat - and their reasons for training, I suppose - differ. Vegeta fights to win for his pride, Goku fights to better himself. This difference is, in Vegeta's words, "why [he] could never beat [Goku];" and this difference is why Goku is "No. 1."

And, yes, he was biased, because everyone, even in fiction, is biased. Vegeta's perspective on things is going to be biased; his speech is how he personally sees things - it's an opinion.

[This might be a bit too much character talk for the "In-Universe Discussion" board. My apologies.]

[Koitsukai]

It's not about raw power. Gaku was number one at that moment because he had the right mindset. This, in turn, led to his great strength.

Also, I don't think this means Vegeta would never try to match Goku again. Quite the opposite. Goku may have been number one at that moment, but by continuing to challenge himself, Vegeta can rival him again.

Ironically, after admitting that Goku was better than him, Vegeta ended up quickly overtaking everyone else in the years to follow both through sheer dedication AND being willing to humble himself, better able to catch up to and keep up with Goku.

I wouldn't say it's ironic because it's actually something that happens in real life. Once you stop focusing on how the guy next to you is doing and focus on yourself, you are bound to get better than ever. Geet's growth is very realistic.

[theherodjl]

It could be said that at that point, Goku technically was the strongest fighter out of them all not counting things like fusion, Rou Kaioshin's ritual to push someone far past their limits, or Boo's ability to absorb others. That's probably why Toriyama himself held the sentiment that Goku was "the strongest in the universe", as he attained his strength through intense training as opposed to obtaining it from an external source as everyone else had. DB Daima pretty much followed this up to fruition by making SSJ4 Goku stronger than Gotenks, Gohan, and Boo, so the context of Goku being the strongest does have merit, just not in a literal sense at first.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It wasn’t a power statement. Vegeta is saying Goku is a better person than he is and the ultimate martial artist.

[Lionel]

It could be said that at that point, Goku technically was the strongest fighter out of them all not counting things like fusion, Rou Kaioshin's ritual to push someone far past their limits, or Boo's ability to absorb others. That's probably why Toriyama himself held the sentiment that Goku was "the strongest in the universe", as he attained his strength through intense training as opposed to obtaining it from an external source as everyone else had. DB Daima pretty much followed this up to fruition by making SSJ4 Goku stronger than Gotenks, Gohan, and Boo, so the context of Goku being the strongest does have merit, just not in a literal sense at first.

Well, even by that metric, Goku isn't strictly 'pure' in his growth of power. We saw him drink the Chonshinsui which unlocked his dormant potential at the time of the Daimou arc.

Goku's training and the circumstances at which he excelled during the Buu arc were uniquely different. When you really look closely at each situation of Goku's where he's trying out some new and effective training method or being mentored under a new sensei, he's generally at the front of the line by himself earning the merits. In fact, I think the only time circumstances were even between him and Vegeta in terms of training was during the Cell arc with the ROSAT. In that moment, his experience and innovation as a gifted fighter actually showed through rather than just being the earliest recipient of something.

When it comes to the Super manga, they remain more or less equal to each other until the Future Trunks and TOP arcs where Goku's aptitude is at the forefront again.

So while I would agree with Vegeta that Goku is generally ahead of the curve, that doesn't make the latter impossibly superior.

[BernardoCairo]

I wouldn't say it's ironic because it's actually something that happens in real life. Once you stop focusing on how the guy next to you is doing and focus on yourself, you are bound to get better than ever. Geet's growth is very realistic.

Yes. As bad as Fukkatsu no F may be, Vegeta's characterization is pretty good. And he literally talks about this after saving Goku's life.

[Vhanos]

I can't believe people are applying powerscaling logic to a character moment. Like, yeah, Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks were probably stronger than Goku (and I say "probably" because I don't want to get in a numbers battle), but that doesn't really matter because Vegeta, in this moment, is acknowledging that Goku has him beat - regardless of their actual power levels. Sure, Vegeta could train and get stronger, but Goku has an unstoppable drive - always fighting to improve and push his limits. It's not so much Vegeta admitting that his power is technically lesser than Goku's, it's him admitting that their reasons for engaging in combat - and their reasons for training, I suppose - differ. Vegeta fights to win for his pride, Goku fights to better himself. This difference is, in Vegeta's words, "why [he] could never beat [Goku];" and this difference is why Goku is "No. 1."

And, yes, he was biased, because everyone, even in fiction, is biased. Vegeta's perspective on things is going to be biased; his speech is how he personally sees things - it's an opinion.

[This might be a bit too much character talk for the "In-Universe Discussion" board. My apologies.]

It's more about the mindset as BernardoCairo says. In the scene before Vegeta sacrifices himself against Buu, he asked Piccolo if he would see Goku in the other world. Piccolo told them the differences in the way he, Vegeta, and Goku carried themselves in their lives.

What we saw with the scene with Vegeta admitting to Goku being number one during the scenes and flashbacks while he was watching Goku fight Kid Buu was expanding on the scene where Piccolo answered Vegeta's question as Fat Buu was approaching them.