DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

[Vegard Aune]

A series that came out 10 years ago does not need a remake. Like…what?

I thought the same, but then someone mentioned Fullmetal Alchemist : Brotherhood, a beloved anime remake was made 6 years after the original.

I think I was the first one to bring that up, but the thing with FMA is... When Brotherhood came out, the manga was wrapping up. And people had been clamoring for a more true-to-the-text anime for years, since the first anime was... very loosely adapting the first seven volumes or so and then went in its own direction entirely afterwards. (Apparently this was at the request of Arakawa Hiromu, who told Bones the broad strokes of how she was planning to develop the story in the manga, and wanted the anime to do something else.) And because the 2003 series was so wildly different right from the get-go, (it's clear looking back at it that Bones had at least a rough outline of what their own anime-original plot would be like by the time they finalized the early episodes, as anime-exclusive twists and reveals are set up right from the start) a full remake was the only way a more direct adaptation of the manga's story could be done.

Super... Well there are definitely differences between what Toei had and what Toyotaro had, and the thing I keep seeing is people asking here too for a more true-to-the-manga anime but... The anime was intended to be the main product, though? With the manga being a promotional tie-in that eventually took on a bit of a life of its own after the anime concluded? I don't see much reason why they would remake the arcs they already animated. Then again I also don't think there was much good reason to redo Battle of Gods and Resurrection F on TV... But then if they were to remake Super now, that would likely mean remaking those yet again.

I also feel like a remake of the original series makes more sense because, like it or not, a lot of people these days are less likely to give a show a chance if it "looks old". And as rough as Super's animation is, especially in its early episodes, it still looks "modern", as it were. Granted, Dragon Ball is in some ways less hampered than early digital animation stuff, due to the simple fact that we have a generally quite crisp scan of the 16mm film that still looks nice by SD standards (the color degrading not withstanding), but even then... It might be a harder sell for people not already invested in the story.

[super michael]

If the manga exclusive chapter gets animated, then the games can use the manga story, characters and forms. That is why in the games we don't get Moro, 7-3, Merus, Yardrat Vegeta, Granolah, Gas, UE Vegeta, UI Avatar Goku and Black Freeza.
We got Daima characters before DBS Manga characters.

However I prefer if the anime of DBS gets a remak and use some ideas of both the anime and manga and make it the best version possible. With better writing, training method and power scale that would make it the best version.
I almost forgot with Daima animation it would make it better.

[Vegard Aune]

If the manga exclusive chapter gets animated, then the games can use the manga story, characters and forms. That is why in the games we don't get Moro, 7-3, Merus, Yardrat Vegeta, Granolah, Gas, UE Vegeta, UI Avatar Goku and Black Freeza.
We got Daima characters before DBS Manga characters.

I mean, I am very much on Team "Animate Moro and Granolah Dang It", I just... don't think a full remake of the anime to accommodate that makes much sense. Yes, there are incongruities between the manga and the anime, I just think it seems far more likely that they would either tweak the story to account for those differences or just... keep going as-is, inconsistencies be damned. None of the differences between the DBS manga and anime are anywhere near as story-breakingly massive as the differences between the two versions of FMA that made the 2003 series fundamentally incompatible with the manga. Like, a character (

Spoiler:

Selim Bradley

, for the record) who in FMA 2003 is very clearly an innocent bystander whom one of the heroes has to save from a major villain in the final arc... and then in the manga that same character is revealed to be probably the second-or-third biggest villain in the story. None of the differences between Toyotaro DBS and Toei DBS are anywhere near that drastic.

[PhantomSaiyan]

It's not difficult at all to change a few things to make the Super anime and the Moro arc coherent with each other, I'm not sure why it's even brought up

[bahhma]

A series that came out 10 years ago does not need a remake. Like…what?

One of the common and rightful criticisms of Kai is it boast being a true to the manga recut but it started at the Saiyan arc and dismissed the first 194 chapters with a quick recap. An actual Z remake would have the same problem.

If you’re going to do a remake start at the beginning Buruma and The Monkey King and end with Goku flying off with Oob. Treat it as one actual story.

I agree with this, but condense the story if needed to ensure that it gets the time/budget needed for a quality product. The recent Yaiba and Ranma remakes seem like good examples.

[super michael]

A series that came out 10 years ago does not need a remake. Like…what?

One of the common and rightful criticisms of Kai is it boast being a true to the manga recut but it started at the Saiyan arc and dismissed the first 194 chapters with a quick recap. An actual Z remake would have the same problem.

If you’re going to do a remake start at the beginning Buruma and The Monkey King and end with Goku flying off with Oob. Treat it as one actual story.

I agree with this, but condense the story if needed to ensure that it gets the time/budget needed for a quality product. The recent Yaiba and Ranma remakes seem like good examples.

I wasn't aware Yaiba was a remake, I did enjoy the remake. I hope the new season comes out soon.

[JulieYBM]

It's okay to say the forty (40) year old cartoon looks and runs awfully.

Runs awfully, yeah, the pacing is terrible.

But I'm not so sure that it looks awful.
At least not all the time: sometimes it does, and sometimes it looks amazing. Like most anime out there, even modern ones

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z were designed to run forever. They weren't made with looking spectacular in mind. They weren't even that special when they were originally broadcasting, let alone nowadays when battle and alice-of-life anime are made to look better.

Why would it need to be 150 episodes? We have the power of foresight here, it can be any length we want.

Dragon Ball Hunt: 6 episodes
Twenty-First: 7 episodes
Red Ribbon Army and Baba: 26 episodes
Twenty-Second: 7 episodes
Daimaou: 6-8 episodes
Twenty-Third: 7 episodes
Saiyan: 8 episodes
Namek: 18 episodes
Artificial Humans: 26 episodes
Majin Buu: 26 episodes

Literally just change the plot and not adapt everything 1:1 with the comic.

The list you have brings the total episode count to 139, which is very close to my 150. Now that I'm looking at your list, I'm beginning to think 150 wouldn't be enough to cover everything thoroughly. Fans should want a remake in order to tell the story better, not faster. This list makes it look like a marathon, like the team is rushing to get to the next thing. The original two shows may have been slow in some places, but one thing I can never say about them is that they never rushed things in order to get to the next thing quicker.

This is how I would go about it, bringing the total episode count to 200:

Dragon Ball Hunt: 10 episodes
Twenty-First: 10 episodes
Red Ribbon Army and Baba: 30 episodes
Twenty-Second: 10 episodes
Daimaou: 15 episodes
Twenty-Third: 10 episodes
Saiyan: 20 episodes
Namek: 30 episodes
Artificial Humans: 30 episodes
Majin Buu: 35 episodes

It’s okay to enjoy a long running series. I think the original Dragon Ball is fine as is. It has its own charm, humor, and the adventure aspect of the show is what makes it great. Adapting the manga into 153 episodes with some filler content was pretty smart, because you want to see the characters grow in a certain way, and making the show super short is not always a best approach. A long running series can be successful if you plan properly.

I couldn't have said it better. Viewers are now so used to everything being so fast paced that they can no longer sit through a longer story that actually takes its time to build the world and develop its characters. So much of what made the original DB & Z so great would be lost in a modern remake that's sole purpose is to tell the story as quick as possible.

Yeah, I made the list up on the spot with little thought given to the latter arcs. I have no problem cutting those down to 8-9 episodes each, either, I just split the arcs to fit into two cour blocks.

139 episodes is a heck of a lot better than 444 episodes.

Unless you're going to radically change the plot to add enough character material to justify even 100+ episodes, there's zero reason for the story to be that long.

[Mr Baggins]

Super... Well there are definitely differences between what Toei had and what Toyotaro had, and the thing I keep seeing is people asking here too for a more true-to-the-manga anime but... The anime was intended to be the main product, though? With the manga being a promotional tie-in that eventually took on a bit of a life of its own after the anime concluded? I don't see much reason why they would remake the arcs they already animated. Then again I also don't think there was much good reason to redo Battle of Gods and Resurrection F on TV... But then if they were to remake Super now, that would likely mean remaking those yet again.

Few things to unpack here. Allow me to do it in list form.

1. The anime is the "main product" in a commercial sense, but I don't think that argument holds much water in a strictly canonical one for a couple of reasons. For one, this is also true of most standard manga-to-anime adaptations: One Piece, as a current example, is virtually always advertised and merchandised based on the anime version specifically. Secondly, the official Dragon Ball site (which covers everything from the manga to the anime to the games to the merch) seems rather heavily skewed towards the manga version of Super; even its own showcase articles always refer to either the manga or Toriyama's movies for DBS, even for anime concurrent characters like Jiren or Goku Black. We can absolutely point to broad-audience marketing material that frames the manga as something more than just fluff.

2. The manga took on a life of its own from basically its conception. It briefly adapts Battle of Gods as a kind of prologue to the series, skips Resurrection 'F' entirely, then hits the ground running in the Universe 6 arc (probably the first proper story arc of the manga) with full-fledged plotlines and story beats, and pretty significant differences from the anime. The pacing is brisker than what anime viewers are accustomed to, but that's hardly news because the same can be said of the original run. Manga Dragon Ball tends to be very snappy, no-nonsense in general narratively.

3. As the movies are either heavily truncated or skipped in the manga, I don't know that they'd be adapted a second time. They could be relegated to an extended recap, maybe. Jury's still out on that one, but given that the manga starting from U6 had much closer involvement from Toriyama, there's plenty of reason for the powers that be to want to adapt and animate it faithfully. Your FMA Brotherhood analogy may not be identical, but it's perfectly apt. Plenty of people that prefer this version would also want to see it presented in an animated format.

With that said: I would not argue with a better looking re-adaptation of the original manga either, though I'm sure they'd have to edit out some of its more problematic bits for that to work.

[super michael]

DBS anime and DBS manga has their strength and weakness, but with a anime remake they could make it the best version. Use what they learned from making DB, DBZ, GT, DBS and Daima and even new ideas.


As for DB/DBZ, I don't believe a lot of things needs to get cut out. Toei should be given as much time as they need and the budget that they need without compromising anything.

[GokuHater]

None to be honest.

Z already had a sort of remake with Kai... And it has it's pros and cons. I don't think any future remake would make a difference.

OG DB... While it is old, not that well known among "average" fans and has filler, I feel the filler and pacing issues are in no way as bad as in Z and the filler here actually ENRICHES the story. It's surely not as fast as Kai or Super but then again I see that as it's charm. This whole story has plenty of unique charm, which I think could be lost with a remake.

Super could be a logical candidate due to animation issues, possible plotholes etc.
But then again plotholes can be found everywhere in DB, not only Super and the animation went really good as time went on. Besides no one will be remaking a 10 year old show, which arguably wasn't properly concluded yet.

[JulieYBM]

None to be honest.

Z already had a sort of remake with Kai... And it has it's pros and cons. I don't think any future remake would make a difference.

OG DB... While it is old, not that well known among "average" fans and has filler, I feel the filler and pacing issues are in no way as bad as in Z and the filler here actually ENRICHES the story. It's surely not as fast as Kai or Super but then again I see that as it's charm. This whole story has plenty of unique charm, which I think could be lost with a remake.

Super could be a logical candidate due to animation issues, possible plotholes etc.
But then again plotholes can be found everywhere in DB, not only Super and the animation went really good as time went on. Besides no one will be remaking a 10 year old show, which arguably wasn't properly concluded yet.

You don't think having an actual production staff craft a new television series—or even film series—using their various skills in storytelling to create a modern series based on Dragon Ball that can be introduced to new audiences as well as prior audiences would make a difference? Dragon Ball Kai is not exactly the model anyone is looking at when it comes to creating a new animated adaption. Dragon Ball Kai is a nearly seventeen year old project that was already just a glorified take on the compilation films of the 1960s-onward, people are looking towards anime from this actual decade as a model of success.

[The Dark Knight]

The idea of Kai itself wasn't a bad one, the problem was with the way it was handled. I think had the team behind Kai been given the time and resources needed for such a project, then there's a good chance it would've been the definitely way to experience the story. Between skipping the original Dragon Ball to the various inconsistencies, Kai unfortunately ended up being nothing more than a sloppy project with no idea of what it wanted to be.

[SupremeKai25]

I don't know why people are focusing on the manga. To me, a Super "remake" would be bigger and more ambitious in scope than that.

The point of a "Super remake" would be to combine aspects of the anime and the manga in new and creative ways to deliver a product that feels both fresh and nostalgic.

I would personally love to see a manga-only scene like Black stabbing Gowasu animated, but I also would want Black to keep his Anime personality.

I don't know why I can't have the best of both worlds?

And let me make this clear

A Super Remake is very unlikely. An OG DB remake is way, way, way, wayyyyyy more likely. I just want to have fun theory-crafting.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z were designed to run forever. They weren't made with looking spectacular in mind. They weren't even that special when they were originally broadcasting, let alone nowadays when battle and alice-of-life anime are made to look better.

100% yeah, I'm not denying that, I just don't think it looks straight up awful, aside from some episodes.

I'm all for taking nostalgia goggles off, but I also don't want to downplay it either, some episodes had really strong art and direction

[super michael]

I don't know why people are focusing on the manga. To me, a Super "remake" would be bigger and more ambitious in scope than that.

The point of a "Super remake" would be to combine aspects of the anime and the manga in new and creative ways to deliver a product that feels both fresh and nostalgic.

I would personally love to see a manga-only scene like Black stabbing Gowasu animated, but I also would want Black to keep his Anime personality.

I don't know why I can't have the best of both worlds?

And let me make this clear

A Super Remake is very unlikely. An OG DB remake is way, way, way, wayyyyyy more likely. I just want to have fun theory-crafting.

Yes you completely understand what I mean, by remaking DBS it could be the best of both worlds. The best of DBS manga and the best of DBS anime. On this we think the same. It would be the best version.

If they tone down Goku dumb moment and Chi Chi control freak moment, then that would be perfect.

[GokuHater]

None to be honest.

Z already had a sort of remake with Kai... And it has it's pros and cons. I don't think any future remake would make a difference.

OG DB... While it is old, not that well known among "average" fans and has filler, I feel the filler and pacing issues are in no way as bad as in Z and the filler here actually ENRICHES the story. It's surely not as fast as Kai or Super but then again I see that as it's charm. This whole story has plenty of unique charm, which I think could be lost with a remake.

Super could be a logical candidate due to animation issues, possible plotholes etc.
But then again plotholes can be found everywhere in DB, not only Super and the animation went really good as time went on. Besides no one will be remaking a 10 year old show, which arguably wasn't properly concluded yet.

You don't think having an actual production staff craft a new television series—or even film series—using their various skills in storytelling to create a modern series based on Dragon Ball that can be introduced to new audiences as well as prior audiences would make a difference? Dragon Ball Kai is not exactly the model anyone is looking at when it comes to creating a new animated adaption. Dragon Ball Kai is a nearly seventeen year old project that was already just a glorified take on the compilation films of the 1960s-onward, people are looking towards anime from this actual decade as a model of success.

A good production - but most importantly development staff - writers, animators, musicians - if given enoughh time and resources could definetly do something magical and make a really good anime.

The question is, is it really needed? That's what I mean when saying if it would make a difference.

For me the best of the best would be a mix of Toryiama and old Toei storytelling, Kikuchi music, Broly art, Daima animation and original DB pacing but having such utopia is nowhere near modern Toei reach, I feel

[PhantomSaiyan]

If they tone down Goku dumb moment and Chi Chi control freak moment, then that would be perfect.

You really think Toei Animation and any of the staff working on Dragon Ball gives a damn about some fans complaining about "Goku being a little more dumb than usual" and "Chichi being a control freak?"

That's like, not even top 50 in the list of things they probably discuss in their meetings.

[super michael]

If they tone down Goku dumb moment and Chi Chi control freak moment, then that would be perfect.

You really think Toei Animation and any of the staff working on Dragon Ball gives a damn about some fans complaining about "Goku being a little more dumb than usual" and "Chichi being a control freak?"

That's like, not even top 50 in the list of things they probably discuss in their meetings.

I believe yes Toei will care about the fans complaint. I also believe Toei are capable of making the best version possible.

Lets make this clear Goku wasn't a little more dumb than usual, he was extremely dumb constantly saying and doing dumb things. Goku got an entire time line erased for being forgetful.
Chi Chi being a control freak was taken to extreme levels.


In Digimon Adventure Reboot they rushed the Digimon to get their ultimate and mega form, but then for no reason they didn't use it. They rather lose, get captured and let their allies die then digivolve to their Ultimate and Mega level. The worst was the episode of Petaldramon.

In the new Digimon anime such as Digimon Ghost Games and now Digimon Beatbreak it is a huge improvement.

[PhantomSaiyan]

I believe yes Toei will care about the fans complaint. I also believe Toei are capable of making the best version possible.

Lets make this clear Goku wasn't a little more dumb than usual, he was extremely dumb constantly saying and doing dumb things. Goku got an entire time line erased for being forgetful.
Chi Chi being a control freak was taken to extreme levels.

No man, you just want that because you're a fan, and not just that, you're an extreme fan like the rest of us on a niche forum of hardcore dragon ball fans. That's why you care about that stuff.

Manjority of people? Don't give a damn.
You're rationalizing your wishful thinking, and convinced yoruself that it can be a real possibility.

Toei Animation? If they thought Goku was mischaracterized, they wouldn't have written him that way to begin with. Toei Animation Staff does not read reddit forums, youtube comments, and especially they don't read kanzenshuu forums, so don't think that our complaints will be heard.

Japanese companies care about pleasing the japanese side of the fandom first and foremost, so they can buy their toys. That's their priority, that's literally it. Don't be delusional and think that they deeply care about the fans who love the characters.

And just to offer my two cents, no, Goku wasn't that much dumber in Super, and Chichi was barely in the show to begin with, to cite her among the things that might "improve" Super is ridiculous, because she barely appears in the first place, and her personality is not any worse than the Z Filler. That's real control freak Chichi at her finest, the Super version is NOTHING compared to that.

There's actual things that can improve actually Super, and Chichi is like at the bottom of the list.

[super michael]

I believe yes Toei will care about the fans complaint. I also believe Toei are capable of making the best version possible.

Lets make this clear Goku wasn't a little more dumb than usual, he was extremely dumb constantly saying and doing dumb things. Goku got an entire time line erased for being forgetful.
Chi Chi being a control freak was taken to extreme levels.

No man, you just want that because you're a fan, and not just that, you're an extreme fan like the rest of us on a niche forum of hardcore dragon ball fans. That's why you care about that stuff.

Manjority of people? Don't give a damn.
You're rationalizing your wishful thinking, and convinced yoruself that it can be a real possibility.

Toei Animation? If they thought Goku was mischaracterized, they wouldn't have written him that way to begin with. Toei Animation Staff does not read reddit forums, youtube comments, and especially they don't read kanzenshuu forums, so don't think that our complaints will be heard.

Japanese companies care about pleasing the japanese side of the fandom first and foremost, so they can buy their toys. That's their priority, that's literally it. Don't be delusional and think that they deeply care about the fans who love the characters.

And just to offer my two cents, no, Goku wasn't that much dumber in Super, and Chichi was barely in the show to begin with, to cite her among the things that might "improve" Super is ridiculous, because she barely appears in the first place, and her personality is not any worse than the Z Filler. That's real control freak Chichi at her finest, the Super version is NOTHING compared to that.

Dragon Ball isn't the only anime that Toei makes, with their other anime they have proven that they can do an excellent job when they want to. If Toei could improve digimon, then why wouldn't that be possible with Dragon Ball? They relied too much on PIS in the plot for Digimon Adventure Reboot.

Beerus in a costume episode was all about Goku being dumb, that episode contradicts his 21st, 22nd and 23rd Martial Art Tournament self.
DBS Super Hero Goku contradicts everything about Goku.
Goku forgetting senzu bean, that never happened before. Goku forgot the urn and talisman, even though Master Roshi told Goku to wait until he gets it. Goku believes senzu beans gives immortality and was a pest toward Zamasu.
Lets not forget Goku was annoying toward Whis, just because he wanted to eat. Goku got so annoying that Whis considered not training. Goku hated when Vegeta trained alone and when Vegeta didn't want to train.

Chi Chi didn't want Gohan to decide how to raise Pan, she locked herself and Pan away from everyone. She believes Goten is only allowed to train if there are bad guys around, otherwise he can't train. What happened to her development in the Buu saga.