Which was the better sequel: GT, Super, or Daima ?

[The Dark Knight]

If you're going to put a gun to our heads and say, "New Dragon Ball only, no new IP!" then at least let the poor fuckers tell stories they want to tell and don't micromanage their creativity.

Dragon Ball is a merchandise commercial first, and a story second; the vast majority of this revival has been this way. Dragon Ball hasn't been a story since 1995.

I've been sitting through the currently running Jujutsu Kaisen Season 3 and I can't remember the last time a season of television so clearly felt like a love letter to filmmaking and to the series it was adapting.

The only parts of this franchise that can be compared to Jujutsu Kaisen (or any anime based on a manga) is the original DB & Z, as those too were based on a manga.

[Grimlock]

All that aside, I personally think the best sequel is DBO.

I agree. And I personally don't understand why Toriyama didn't use some of his great ideas in Super. If they wanted to bring Trunks back, I think the Time Patrol would be a great way to do so.

That's probably because Toriyama wasn't the one coming up with the stories; he was taking what was presented to him by the committee and putting his stamp on them.

Bardock's personality in the game lines up with the "modern version", what are the chance the developers simply knew at the time when all they had was the Bardock TV Special? Also, there are lot of ideas Toriyama said in interviews still not used by him in a series.

[JulieYBM]

If you're going to put a gun to our heads and say, "New Dragon Ball only, no new IP!" then at least let the poor fuckers tell stories they want to tell and don't micromanage their creativity.

Dragon Ball is a merchandise commercial first, and a story second; the vast majority of this revival has been this way. Dragon Ball hasn't been a story since 1995.

I've been sitting through the currently running Jujutsu Kaisen Season 3 and I can't remember the last time a season of television so clearly felt like a love letter to filmmaking and to the series it was adapting.

The only parts of this franchise that can be compared to Jujutsu Kaisen (or any anime based on a manga) is the original DB & Z, as those too were based on a manga.

You really do not need to say these things to the chick who has been on this forum for twenty years and been into anime even longer than that. I know that this is a commercial franchise, that does not mean that I need to suck their dicks. I am going to criticize them and hold them to a higher standard and I am going to encourage other fans to do the same.

[The Dark Knight]

I will give GT credit for not feeling like a merchandise commercial, as every decision is rooted in telling the story; that's not something I can't say about Daima and especially not about Super. GT has many, MANY issues going against it, but there's not a single moment in its 65 episodes that felt like it was trying to sell me something.

I am going to criticize them and hold them to a higher standard and I am going to encourage other fans to do the same.

You've got my vote. The sad thing is, these companies could be making more money in the long run if they'd actually put the stories first and let the quality of the writing sell the merchandise for them.

[BernardoCairo]

Tbh you're being generous giving it to BoG. It still sounds like a reunion special type movie before he came in. He changed all the details but the skeleton of the movie was not his.

I am not so sure about that. From what I have read about the movie, Toriyama himself said that he rewrote the entire script. He even mentioned feeling bad for the original screenwriter, who also stated that the final film turned out completely different from what he had initially written.
There may have been an original concept for Battle of Gods, but it clearly was not the same as the finished product. The earlier themes about what makes a hero were ultimately set aside. The darker tone that was first envisioned was also changed, reportedly in response to the 2011 earthquake and tsunami. On top of that, the main characters were significantly reworked.
It is a Toriyama story, but different from the original manga.

I will give GT credit for not feeling like a merchandise commercial, as every decision is rooted in telling the story; that's not something I can't say about Daima and especially not about Super. GT has many, MANY issues going against it, but there's not a single moment in its 65 episodes that felt like it was trying to sell me something.

GT is just as commercial as Super. It exists only because they did not want to let Dragon Ball go, even though the original author intended to conclude the story.
In the end, GT stopped not because the story had naturally reached its conclusion, but because it was no longer fulfilling its core purpose, which was to sell merchandise and maintain momentum for the brand. And they really tried to make it work. Just look at the Super 17 arc.

[The Dark Knight]

GT is just as commercial as Super.

We both know that's not true. GT at least tried to function as a natural continuation of Z (even if it did fall on its face every step of the way), unlike Super which was just one callback after another to past events for nostalgia purposes. Don't even get me started on the new form of the week Super's known for, unlike GT which introduced one form and stuck with it, half way through the series I may add.

[JulieYBM]

Every day I wish that Watanabe Yuusuke's script for Battle of Gods had not been tossed out.

[BernardoCairo]

We both know that's not true. GT at least tried to function as a natural continuation of Z (even if it did fall on its face every step of the way), unlike Super which was just one callback after another to past events for nostalgia purposes. Don't even get me started on the new form of the week Super's known for, unlike GT which introduced one form and stuck with it, half way through the series I may add.

It was trying to do its own thing, but it ended up abandoning that direction because it just was not commercially viable. Then we got the Super 17 arc, probably the biggest nothingburger in all of Dragon Ball, bringing the villains back from hell for the third consecutive time in three years. I see nothing that special in GT, honestly.

Every day I wish that Watanabe Yuusuke's script for Battle of Gods had not been tossed out.

Honestly, I think the final product turned out so good that I do not even mind. On its own, it is the best Dragon Ball we have gotten post 1995, in my opinion. And I think a big part of that comes from the fact that it felt very different from the previous movies. It told an actual story, did not revolve around a straightforward evil villain, and did not end with Goku winning by some last minute miracle.
The idea of Beerus being outright evil is honestly so lame.

[JulieYBM]

We both know that's not true. GT at least tried to function as a natural continuation of Z (even if it did fall on its face every step of the way), unlike Super which was just one callback after another to past events for nostalgia purposes. Don't even get me started on the new form of the week Super's known for, unlike GT which introduced one form and stuck with it, half way through the series I may add.

It was trying to do its own thing, but it ended up abandoning that direction because it just was not commercially viable. Then we got the Super 17 arc, probably the biggest nothingburger in all of Dragon Ball, bringing the villains back from hell for the third consecutive time in three years. I see nothing that special in GT, honestly.

Every day I wish that Watanabe Yuusuke's script for Battle of Gods had not been tossed out.

Honestly, I think the final product turned out so good that I do not even mind. On its own, it is the best Dragon Ball we have gotten post 1995, in my opinion. And I think a big part of that comes from the fact that it felt very different from the previous movies. It told an actual story, did not revolve around a straightforward evil villain, and did not end with Goku winning by some last minute miracle.
The idea of Beerus being outright evil is honestly so lame.

The movie is an assault on the eyes and ears. It's a fun script brought to life by Yamadera's work as Beerus, but my god, does it look ugly and the music score from Sumitomo is horrendous. Yamamuro wouldn't have done any better a job even if Watanabe's original script had been used, of course, but at least it would be a more interesting story. And perhaps a more interestingly directed film to match the darker tone, who knows?

[BernardoCairo]

From the little we know of the script, I sincerely doubt it. Beerus as a lame villain, character turning evil, Saiyajins being "evil" because of a virus... Goku probably would have won in the end by doing a Dragon Fist

As for Yamamuro, I think it was his best recent work. Far better looking than Fukkatso No F and Super at least. But not as good as what came after, of course.