Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[QuakingStar]

Beast has the largest from base power gain shown yet. Gohans base form is not on the level of Piccolo, Goku, Broly, or Vegetas base forms. He's far below their base forms. But when he goes Beast he has the edge in raw power against them in their best forms. Beast is an insane transformation, but I guess it makes sense seeing as its Gohan.

[Miracles]

Moro couldn't even be beat by A fusion when he merged with Seven in the Galactic Patrol arc. A fusion is not even close to Beerus.

[Yuji]

How strong is Slim Boo from the DBS anime?

Stronger than Boohan? Stronger than Moro arc Mr. Boo? In-between?

He tangled with Base2 Goku (calling Base2 to the SSG-tier base Goku portrayals since they're so inconsistent).

[Hugo Boss]

How strong is Slim Boo from the DBS anime?

Stronger than Boohan? Stronger than Moro arc Mr. Boo? In-between?

He tangled with Base2 Goku (calling Base2 to the SSG-tier base Goku portrayals since they're so inconsistent).

In terms of strength, he was pretty much even with Goku in their fight. Boo only beat him because of writing convenience, so that Goku would learn strategies to use in the future fights.

If he was comparable to other iterations of Boo that weren’t the Fat Boo, that was not clear in Goku’s assessment. I think nearing or surpassing Gohan-Boo level might be a stretch, but so was Fat Boo in Moro arc, when he was fighting at a level rivaling Super Saiyan Blue.

Since this is Super, anything is possible.

[QuakingStar]

Fit Buu was BoG Arc SSG level minimum. Buu had never trained in canon, so taking it that serious combined with his stamina and healing factor it's no wonder he was able to get that strong, it's like Frieza training for real for the first time. Buu in the Moro Arc is above Moro Arc Super Saiyan Blue in power.

[Yuji]

I think I've pretty much settled on Super Saiyan fusions being about as strong as Super Saiyan Blue (Gotenks being the only exception so far). Some may be slightly stronger, some slightly weaker, but I think that's more or or less where they stand.

Which means, to me personally, Super Vegetto in the Boo arc is around RoF SSB tier (which also fits with Super Vegetto being called stronger than SS4 Baby arc Goku, and SSB/SS4 being portrayed as equals in Heroes and other media). I think this one is what will raise the most eyebrows but I prefer to keep things consistent with the scaling below.

Super Gogeta >/= SSB Goku/Vegeta
UIS Goku > Anime SS2 Kefla > SSBKKx20 Goku > SS Kefla =/> SSB Goku
Manga SSB Goku >/= Ultimate Gohan = SS Kefla

The "God is an astronomical multiplier" thing has clearly been done away with. It's SS3x10 to me right now. Which means there's not such a ridiculous difference between SS and SSB, though I'd also entertain the possibility that fusions have reduced multipliers as well.

[Koitsukai]

I don't agree at all.

If Buu arc SS Vegito had been SSB tier, then BoG SS Vegito (with a Vegeta stronger than SS3 Goku) would've been absolutely insane and a way better option than SSG. Yet Goku speaks as if he made the right choice, power-wise, by not fusing and trying something else.
The gap between Buuhan and RoF SSB tier is gargantuan. Vegito would’ve hardly needed to lift a finger if that were the case, or to let himself get turned into candy, which he wasn’t expecting at all and yet couldn’t avoid.

Narratively, SSG needs to surpass Z Vegito. I don't know why it's so hard to understand that fusion depends on how strong the fusees are. Z fusions can't hold a candle to DBS fusions because Z fusees maxed out at SS3, while DBS fusees have two additional forms beyond that.

There's a recent thread here that talks about how base and SS forms work, which goes hand in hand with Kaboom's fusion theory. Fusions tend to be extremely strong in base and don’t gain proportionally as much from transformations, as seen when Gogeta went SS (only performing slightly better than in base) and SSB against Broly.

If Vegito was already operating at that level, then the entire dramatic weight of BoG falls apart. The whole point of SSG was to introduce a new realm of power, not something that had already been surpassed years earlier.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

The big things that puts stopgaps into the "Fusions were always stronger than current god forms" are basic ideas: Goku and Vegeta are simply far stronger and have access to greater potential power now than they did before.

Unless you think all this power they've gained in their base forms and transformations in addition to all this extra training to further tap into their hidden potential has done nothing at all to their Fusions, which I personally think is a bit silly.

Not to mention that Fusions aren't exactly something static. They're literally magically created beings formed from creating a union between other beings. There could be any number of extra factors like participant compatibility, random chance, etc.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Beast has the largest from base power gain shown yet. Gohans base form is not on the level of Piccolo, Goku, Broly, or Vegetas base forms. He's far below their base forms. But when he goes Beast he has the edge in raw power against them in their best forms. Beast is an insane transformation, but I guess it makes sense seeing as its Gohan.

Based on Ultimate Gohan being >= Gamma 1, I’d think that gap has been closed and they’re the same in equivalent forms.

Base Goku = Base Vegeta = Base Gohan
SSJB Goku = Ultimate Gohan = Base Broly
UI Goku = Gohan Beast = LSSJ Broly

Moro couldn't even be beat by A fusion when he merged with Seven in the Galactic Patrol arc. A fusion is not even close to Beerus.

Because Moro has the power to defuse fusions… It’s blatantly stated even Blue fusion is at least as strong as Beerus.

How strong is Slim Boo from the DBS anime?

Stronger than Boohan? Stronger than Moro arc Mr. Boo? In-between?

He tangled with Base2 Goku (calling Base2 to the SSG-tier base Goku portrayals since they're so inconsistent).

As strong as base Goku, whatever that is. At least Gotenks-Boo level.

think the simplest way to solve the inconsistence is to say Goku is suppressed instead of giving him an invisible form. It’s the same answer but less complicated.

I think I've pretty much settled on Super Saiyan fusions being about as strong as Super Saiyan Blue (Gotenks being the only exception so far). Some may be slightly stronger, some slightly weaker, but I think that's more or or less where they stand.

Which means, to me personally, Super Vegetto in the Boo arc is around RoF SSB tier (which also fits with Super Vegetto being called stronger than SS4 Baby arc Goku, and SSB/SS4 being portrayed as equals in Heroes and other media). I think this one is what will raise the most eyebrows but I prefer to keep things consistent with the scaling below.

Super Gogeta >/= SSB Goku/Vegeta
UIS Goku > Anime SS2 Kefla > SSBKKx20 Goku > SS Kefla =/> SSB Goku
Manga SSB Goku >/= Ultimate Gohan = SS Kefla

The "God is an astronomical multiplier" thing has clearly been done away with. It's SS3x10 to me right now. Which means there's not such a ridiculous difference between SS and SSB, though I'd also entertain the possibility that fusions have reduced multipliers as well.

But what about Super Gogeta >>>> SSJB in the Broly movie?

For me it always seemed like the ritual gave SSJG an extra boost. I have SSJG just 2x SSJ3, but the ritual also giving Goku a 1,000x boost overall.

Z Super Vegetto ~ SSJG is understandable, but making Super Vegetto a rival to SSJB is insane.

[Hugo Boss]

I think you could totally justify fusions overlapping god forms based on the characters getting massively stronger themselves. But I don’t think there is a definitive answer for this. SSG in Battle of Gods was supposed to be close to Beerus in power, although only 60%, which would be more than enough of a reason for the idea of this form being superior to Super Vegetto.

I think the issue mainly stems from the fact that SSG and SSB are currently far below Beerus in the serializations and movies from Dragon Ball Super, to the point we could easily have Super Vegetto above SSG or even SSB.