What if Dragon Ball was never dubbed in English?

[90sDBZ]

Add in Spider-Man: The Animated Series and Jackie Chan Adventures and I'm in a similar boat.

I was really into both of those too.

There were a lot of awesome shows that simply didn't have close to as many episodes as the DB franchise.

Stuff like Batman Beyond, Xmen Evolution, and Samurai Jack were all great too, but could only be rewatched so many times due to the smaller episode counts. With DBZ I'd be in the mood to start again at Raditz whenever they aired the final episode.

[The Dark Knight]

Is this thread specifically asking what if Dragon Ball was never licensed in English markets at all? Or simply if it was licensed but never dubbed into English? Because those are ultimately two wildly different and distinct scenarios, and it seems that folks here are treating the two as being synonymous and interchangeable when they're really not at all.

This is a good observation, as my response above was based on it not being licensed period, so this changes things. If DB was licensed but never dubbed, it would've likely been less popular with younger children, as it wouldn't have been broadcast on the likes of Cartoon Network (or wherever it was initially broadcasted from). If I had to guess, such a scenario would've resulted in DB being more popular among older teenagers and younger adults.

[Hellspawn28]

The fandom would be much smaller, but the fandom would still exist and be huge in other places. It would be in the same boat as Saint Seiya is in the states.

[PowerPhantom245]

The fandom would be much smaller, but the fandom would still exist and be huge in other places. It would be in the same boat as Saint Seiya is in the states.

Is Saint Seiya that small of fan base in America?
I remember seeing dubbed version "Knights of the Zodiac" on Cartoon Network.
I'm not a fan of the anime, but even I was aware of its existence.
Not to mention, it did get a live action adaptation 3 years ago, that had big name actors.
Granted, it wasn't good, but franchise must be popular enough to warrant such a release.

[JulieYBM]

Saint Seiya is the story of a series that keeps getting pushed in the US and never, ever works out lol

[Kenji]

Saint Seiya is the story of a series that keeps getting pushed in the US and never, ever works out lol

When the people in charge have no respect for the source material, that's exactly what should happen.
Let it die, let it die. Let it shrivel up and die

Just give it the Viz Sailor Moon treatment and... While not a spectacular hit, it'll still have some shred of success.

[Hellspawn28]

The fandom would be much smaller, but the fandom would still exist and be huge in other places. It would be in the same boat as Saint Seiya is in the states.

Is Saint Seiya that small of fan base in America?

Yes, it's a very niche franchise. When it did get dubbed on CN, it was far too late at that point. The show was showing its age compared to other shows airing at the time. 1986 anime didn't look as new and fresh compare to other titles airing on TV at the time.

[The Dark Knight]

To be fair to Saint Seiya, it never got a proper dub and release in the US like what Dragon Ball and other popular series got. With that said, the series is unfortunately too old to really take off even with a proper dub and release; it would need a full remake to catch up.

[JulieYBM]

Saint Seiya is the story of a series that keeps getting pushed in the US and never, ever works out lol

When the people in charge have no respect for the source material, that's exactly what should happen.
Let it die, let it die. Let it shrivel up and die

Just give it the Viz Sailor Moon treatment and... While not a spectacular hit, it'll still have some shred of success.

Given how Sailor Moon was a pretty decent hit here and had the built-in audience of weird depressed Millenials and Xers from the 1990s and early 2000s, I feel as if the effect would not work. The Viz Sailor Moon licensing 'worked' because of that pre-established relationship. Nobody cared about Knights of the Trademark Infringement in the 2000s, so there's no real audience of depressed Millenials to nostalgia pander to.

[PowerPhantom245]

Yes, it's a very niche franchise. When it did get dubbed on CN, it was far too late at that point. The show was showing its age compared to other shows airing at the time. 1986 anime didn't look as new and fresh compare to other titles airing on TV at the time.

It's interesting that anime from the 80s like Robotech (Macross, Southern Cross, and MOSPEDA), Voltron (GoLion), Ronin Warriors (Samurai Troopers) and Bubblegum Crisis was popular, yet Saint Seiya wasn't that big of hit.

Going back to the topic, I'm glad Dragon Ball got dubbed in English, even though it resulted in several releases that confused consumers.
I don't think this forum would exist had it not got dubbed.

[Yellow Flower King]

Saint Seiya is the story of a series that keeps getting pushed in the US and never, ever works out lol

When the people in charge have no respect for the source material, that's exactly what should happen.
Let it die, let it die. Let it shrivel up and die

Just give it the Viz Sailor Moon treatment and... While not a spectacular hit, it'll still have some shred of success.

It already got the Viz Sailor Moon treatment, the original series got a complete redub recently. And this was the third attempt. I am honestly happy we got the redub. You are right. We dont need constant revivals lol.

[BernardoCairo]

I'm from Brazil, where only the original DB was dubbed for its first 60 episodes before being cancelled and only redubbed and brought back years after Z was successful in the CN airings it, so... Yeah.

I assumed it was also the case in the rest of Latin America as our dub was primarily based on the Mexican dub, but apparently not, so my apologies.

If I'm not mistaken, Dragon Ball became popular here even before it became popular in the US (or around the same time). OG Dragon Ball was already fairly popular, even before Z.
I think Spanish America influenced the airing of Dragon Ball here more than the US ever did.

[Vegetto95]

I mentioned Kimagure Orange Road as an example because that is what I'm thinking of, a popular series that was licensed, just never dubbed in English.

Teeeechnically the second KOR movie from '96, which ironically is the very last bit of KOR material ever made, was the only thing from the entire anime ever dubbed, since ADV first put it out dubbed on VHS all the way back in '98. But yeah, the remaining 48 TV episodes, 8 OVAs, and first movie were all originally licensed by AnimEigo instead and thus remain undubbed (as AnimEigo almost always just did subtitled-only releases, which ties into what Kunzait was talking about) and current licensor Discotek didn't bother getting a dub done for it for their Blu-ray releases of the TV series, OVAs, and first movie a few years back either. Apparently the second movie didn't get picked up by any other company after ADV went under and is still floating around in licensing limbo...

(Also worth mentioning that the 1985 Shōnen Jump Special, which basically served as a pilot for the TV series, was the sole piece of KOR anime that was never officially licensed in America at all, regardless of language).



Reminds me a fair bit of Yū Yū Hakusho in a slightly different way, considering Funimation has licensed and dubbed nearly EVERY single bit of that series, up to and including all 112 TV episodes, the first movie, the first two Eizō Hakusho OVAs (though technically the other four Eizo Hakusho OVA episodes are all just character songs set to scenes from the TV series and feature no dialogue otherwise, so Funi just left those in Japanese, which to be fair does make sense), the Two Shots/All for Nothing OVA (originally released in 2018, over 20 years after any other YYH anime material), and hell, they even dubbed the fucking anti-piracy warnings from the original Japanese Eizō Hakusho VHS tapes (since those all consisted of the characters themselves warning people "Don't you dare copy this tape!" lmao)!!!

Eeeeexcept... they never dubbed the second movie. Even though its original licensor Central Park Media/U.S. Manga Corps also went under a little over 15 years ago (just a few months apart from ADV, sadly) seemingly the license to it is also still stuck in purgatory and thus it remains the ONLY part of the entire YYH anime to not be dubbed by Funi lol

Making things even more interesting is the fact that the first movie actually has TWO dubs, since that was originally licensed, dubbed, and put out on VHS instead by Media Blasters under their Anime Works label back in 1996, but Funi did get that one and redubbed it with their own mostly godawful in-house cast (yaaaaay... more Sabat Kuwabaraaaa... ) and bundled it with Eizō Hakusho on DVD back in 2011 (and of course LIED THEIR FUCKING ASSES off on the blurb on the back cover, just as they loved to do with their Dragon Ball releases back then, claiming that the first YYH movie was "lOnG-sOuGhT aFtEr" and "eXtReMelY rArE"... even though RIGHT NOW, 15 wholeass years after Funi released their copy of it... you can still EEEEAAASILY find literally DOZENS of listings on eBay of Anime Works' 2001 DVD release that was a double feature with the Ninkū movie for 10-15 bucks )

[M16U3L2015]

The fandom would be much smaller, but the fandom would still exist and be huge in other places. It would be in the same boat as Saint Seiya is in the states.

Is Saint Seiya that small of fan base in America?
I remember seeing dubbed version "Knights of the Zodiac" on Cartoon Network.
I'm not a fan of the anime, but even I was aware of its existence.
Not to mention, it did get a live action adaptation 3 years ago, that had big name actors.
Granted, it wasn't good, but franchise must be popular enough to warrant such a release.

I’d say yes, it’s a niche series in the English-speaking world, especially when you compare it to its popularity in Europe and Latin America, where it’s on a par with other massive anime series.

And attempts to promote the franchise in the US, such as the live-action movie and Netflix CGI series, were a flop with both casual viewers and fans.

[Yellow Flower King]

The fandom would be much smaller, but the fandom would still exist and be huge in other places. It would be in the same boat as Saint Seiya is in the states.

Is Saint Seiya that small of fan base in America?
I remember seeing dubbed version "Knights of the Zodiac" on Cartoon Network.
I'm not a fan of the anime, but even I was aware of its existence.
Not to mention, it did get a live action adaptation 3 years ago, that had big name actors.
Granted, it wasn't good, but franchise must be popular enough to warrant such a release.

It flopped miserably on CN it didnt even show all the episodes that were dubbed lol.

[Kid Buu]

Add in Spider-Man: The Animated Series and Jackie Chan Adventures and I'm in a similar boat.

I was really into both of those too.

There were a lot of awesome shows that simply didn't have close to as many episodes as the DB franchise.

Stuff like Batman Beyond, Xmen Evolution, and Samurai Jack were all great too, but could only be rewatched so many times due to the smaller episode counts. With DBZ I'd be in the mood to start again at Raditz whenever they aired the final episode.

Yeah I think it's a combination of show length and the fact that it is connecting episodes rather than monster of the week. Also the violence really stood out compared to US cartoons I was watching at the times. Other shows characters wouldn't even punch each other.

[SylentEcho]

It definitely wouldn't be the global phenomenon it is today. Goku is as recognizable as Mickey Mouse, or Tom and Jerry.

The "Americanization" of Z was essential, because we were all used to heroic good guys and not quirky, childish ones like the OG Goku. As loathe as I am to say this, I used to dislike the JP version on the DVDs as a teen - I found it too serious, mostly silent and it put me to sleep. I didn't truly like it until my late teens.

The old Saban dub was the one that took off and really became a massive hit globally. Not to mention, the unintentional hype CN created by not asking for more episodes after #53. It kept looping back to Raditz and people were losing their minds, wanting to see what happened next. This hype was global, everyone was on the internet, looking at pictures of Cell, AF, GT, Majin Vegeta and wondering what all that was about.

This was also during a time of no streaming, so everyone in countries where Toonami hadn't resumed the dub with Z-Day until 2003 (not September 1999, like America and the U.K), had no choice but to get the rips off their friends, or p2p software like Morpheus and iMesh.

All of this hype and effort to watch turned into an obsession, which made Dragon Ball even more popular.

[90sDBZ]

Also the violence really stood out compared to US cartoons I was watching at the times. Other shows characters wouldn't even punch each other.

I remember the "no punching" rule being a thing on Spider-Man TAS. They got around it sometimes, like having him punch someone with his fist coming through a portal.

The initial run of Samurai Jack had him fighting robots a lot of the time, so he could hack them up without going against censorship standards.

The creators of Batman TAS also had to fight an uphill battle against censorship. When the show was rebranded as 'The New Batman Adventures', they were suddenly allowed to get away with a lot more.

The scene that made me obsessed with DBZ was Vegeta's death on Namek funnily enough. Seeing a major character straight up killed and buried was a huge deal for 7 year old me.

[Kid Buu]

Also the violence really stood out compared to US cartoons I was watching at the times. Other shows characters wouldn't even punch each other.

I remember the "no punching" rule being a thing on Spider-Man TAS. They got around it sometimes, like having him punch someone with his fist coming through a portal.

The initial run of Samurai Jack had him fighting robots a lot of the time, so he could hack them up without going against censorship standards.

The creators of Batman TAS also had to fight an uphill battle against censorship. When the show was rebranded as 'The New Batman Adventures', they were suddenly allowed to get away with a lot more.

The scene that made me obsessed with DBZ was Vegeta's death on Namek funnily enough. Seeing a major character straight up killed and buried was a huge deal for 7 year old me.

Since you're in the UK do you remember what channel Batman TAS aired on? Google says CBBC but I could swear it was on Cartoon Netowrk. I remember Batman of the Future (Batman Beyond) and Justice League were 100% on CN.

Heh I was obsessed with the bit where Gohan allows Cell to punch him in the face and bleeds and smirk. You never saw something like that in other cartoons being shown at the time.

[90sDBZ]

Since you're in the UK do you remember what channel Batman TAS aired on? Google says CBBC but I could swear it was on Cartoon Netowrk. I remember Batman of the Future (Batman Beyond) and Justice League were 100% on CN.

I was quite late to the party with Batman TAS, and didn't see it in full until the DVDs years later.

I definitely remember seeing the occasional episode on Cartoon Network though. It was around the time my family first got Sky TV. I also remember watching some of Superman TAS on there too. Unfortunately they were taken off the lineup before I could get into them properly.

I'm pretty sure Batman was also on CBBC though. I vaguely remember seeing a very small amount of it before my family got Sky. I actually used to have a VHS recording of the episode were Clayface falls off the cliff at the end, although I forget which channel it was.

I watched Mask of The Phantasm and Return of the Joker when they aired on Cartoon Network. I'd already seen Beyond at that point, but seeing those movies really made me interested in watching the OG series properly. For whatever reason TAS never seemed to get any reruns, probably because it was an older show at that point.