Unpopular DB opinions

[Mr Baggins]

Before everyone screams "BUT BROLY!!!!!", what does that movie have besides its good visuals ? Broly is basically a prettier Resurrection F.

Bruv... come on. You already asked this question in another thread, and I answered it directly in sufficient detail.

If you're curious about why I liked Resurrection 'F', I will defer to what I recently posted in honor of its 10th anniversary. I could go into much further detail on that, but that's the basic gist.

The Koyama movies are, of course, forgettable though mildly enjoyable time-wasters at best and utter dogwater at worst. No arguments there.

Not once did we see Vegeta reflect on how his father impacted Broly and his father, not once did we see Goku reflect on how lucky he was to have avoided Broly's fate by being sent to earth, and not once did we Broly or his father actually speak to Goku and Vegeta.

See, I can't get behind any of that. These are unnecessary ideas that would have actively detracted from the story Broly was telling.

The point of the contrast between Broly and Goku was that while the former's father was an overbearing influence on his life for selfish reasons, the latter's father took initiative to give his son a much better one without any interaction with him or personal gain at all. I keep seeing shit like "why didn't Goku remember Bardock" or "why didn't Goku interact with Bardock" when that completely ignores the foil work put in place to distinguish their upbringings as Saiyans. It would add nothing, and would mean nothing.

We don't need the Saiyans to reflect on their differences because this is readily apparent in the film. Goku asking Broly why he lets people control him gives you a pretty succinct picture of the distinction between their parent-son relationships.

Then, as mentioned, the two proceed to have a better mutual understanding by doing what they do best – beating the absolute snot out of each other. Bonus detail: Gogeta being depicted almost like a villain while nearly obliterating poor Broly.

Frieza is also great in this, and you get a sense of why he is the way he is specifically because of his relationship with King Cold in the prologue, which plays into its theme.

[The Dark Knight]

Bruv... come on. You already asked this question in another thread, and I answered it directly in sufficient detail.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you said; it's just that Broly as a story didn't work for me the way it worked for you and others. Please don't take my comments as me outright hating the movie, because I don't; I just don't think it's on the level as something like BOG. I feel like Toriyama did a better job with BOG at getting across what he intended, unlike Broly where (to me at least) a lot of the details got lost in the action.

[Mr Baggins]

Fair enough.

Battle of Gods is up there for me as well, for whatever it's worth; so much that I'm likely to end up tuning into its anime remake-of-a-remake (lol) at some point, even if the notion of such a thing doesn't exactly rouse me.

[Scsigs]

DBH characters like Cumber comes off as some OC that a kid would write and be like "He can one shot every Super Saiyan in his base form" on the playgrounds.

This is a rather cold take, friend. Cumber is one of the edgiest official designs in Dragon Ball history.

Probably my least popular opinion is that Resurrection 'F' is a good (not great, but good) DB film.

I'd say of the Z films, it's not the worst. The main thing, though, is that the story unfortunately lacks any real tension or stakes while also trying to have a character arc for Goku. So, it does a good thing with giving positive character development for Goku, but also a bad thing with how it does it. Beerus & Whis being on Earth immediately deflates the tension because if Goku or Vegeta fail to defeat Freeza, they can just step in to finish the job, but at least Whis needs to be there on Earth to reverse time so Goku can stop Freeza from rage quitting the fight by blowing Earth up in a tantrum. It's a catch 22.
Other than that, it has some nice action & animation for eye candy & I like that they got Roshi & Tien in on the action since they haven't gotten to do much in a while.

[The Dark Knight]

I'd say of the Z films, it's not the worst. The main thing, though, is that the story unfortunately lacks any real tension or stakes while also trying to have a character arc for Goku. So, it does a good thing with giving positive character development for Goku, but also a bad thing with how it does it.

The issue I have with Goku's arc in the movie is that it tries to solve an issue that was never an issue until this movie introduced it: Goku letting his guard down. The writes presented this as if it was something Goku was known for and had struggled to resolve up to this point, but in reality, he only let his guard down twice during the original manga's story: When he thought he had won against Piccolo in the 23rd Tenkaichi, and again when he let go of Raditz's tail. Considering that it never happened again, it is safe to assume that Goku learned his lesson.

[Dbzk1999]

I'd say of the Z films, it's not the worst. The main thing, though, is that the story unfortunately lacks any real tension or stakes while also trying to have a character arc for Goku. So, it does a good thing with giving positive character development for Goku, but also a bad thing with how it does it.

The issue I have with Goku's arc in the movie is that it tries to solve an issue that was never an issue until this movie introduced it: Goku letting his guard down. The writes presented this as if it was something Goku was known for and had struggled to resolve up to this point, but in reality, he only let his guard down twice during the original manga's story: When he thought he had won against Piccolo in the 23rd Tenkaichi, and again when he let go of Raditz's tail. Considering that it never happened again, it is safe to assume that Goku learned his lesson.

It uh, definitely happened more times than you’re remembering. It gets specifically called out by Vegeta, after he knocks Goku out in the Boo arc, after Goku lets his guard down.

[The Dark Knight]

It uh, definitely happened more times than you’re remembering. It gets specifically called out by Vegeta, after he knocks Goku out in the Boo arc, after Goku lets his guard down.

Goku didn't view Vegeta as an enemy, so he didn't think he needed to keep his guard up. There's a difference between letting your guard down as a bad habit, and doing so in circumstances that are understandable. If I get in an argument with a stranger, I'm going to be far more vigilant than I would be if that same argument was with a close friend, for the simple fact that I'm not expecting my friend to try to hurt me.

[Dbzk1999]

It uh, definitely happened more times than you’re remembering. It gets specifically called out by Vegeta, after he knocks Goku out in the Boo arc, after Goku lets his guard down.

Goku didn't view Vegeta as an enemy, so he didn't think he needed to keep his guard up. There's a difference between letting your guard down as a bad habit, and doing so in circumstances that are understandable. If I get in an argument with a stranger, I'm going to be far more vigilant than I would be if that same argument was with a close friend, for the simple fact that I'm not expecting my friend to try to hurt me.

I feel like this analogy kinda goes out the window a bit when said friend just recently murdered god knows how many people for the sake of fighting you, with the purpose of hurting you. Not even saying that Goku is wrong to see him as a friend by that point, but when a big part of that “letting his guard down” flaw is the emphasis on how he can have a tendency to be too relaxed, yeah that’s a prime example of it. And again, it’s not like he did it with Raditz and then did it with Majin Vegeta with nothing in between. There’s several examples of him letting himself be too relaxed and letting his guard down as a result.

[Scsigs]

I'd say of the Z films, it's not the worst. The main thing, though, is that the story unfortunately lacks any real tension or stakes while also trying to have a character arc for Goku. So, it does a good thing with giving positive character development for Goku, but also a bad thing with how it does it.

The issue I have with Goku's arc in the movie is that it tries to solve an issue that was never an issue until this movie introduced it: Goku letting his guard down. The writes presented this as if it was something Goku was known for and had struggled to resolve up to this point, but in reality, he only let his guard down twice during the original manga's story: When he thought he had won against Piccolo in the 23rd Tenkaichi, and again when he let go of Raditz's tail. Considering that it never happened again, it is safe to assume that Goku learned his lesson.

I mean, sure, I can see that. It was definitely a bit forced. I still like that it tried to set up a character arc with Goku, though. It also set up Ultra Instinct that wouldn't be paid off until the Tournament of Power, though I think it could've been pulled off a bit better with more coherency & cohesiveness.

[Noah]

I tend to get no support on this myself, but I also think Broly just isn't a good movie.

It's a confused, overly-long mess of at least three disparate, largely unrelated stories; I can't stand its musical score (my soundtrack is still in its shrinkwrap); there's so much animation that the actual impact is lost at countless points...

I just didn't have a good time watching it. I understand what people see in it, but that didn't land with me.

And that's fine. It's just unpopular!

Wow, I actually agree a lot with this opinion, but my reasons for not liking the Broly movie usually come down to things that some people might just see as nitpicking, or things that, from my perspective, didn’t really fit well. Like, okay, it’s cool that we finally got an animated version of Goku’s mother, but I not really fond of Minus. Also another retelling of Bardock’s story that feels pretty rushed and weaker compared to the TV special? Toriyama, or whoever decided it, made Freeza without armor pink? I know it’s consistent with the manga that Vegeta is bald even as a child because of the whole idea that pure Saiyans are born and die with the same hairstyle, but his kid design in the TV special is still the best one for me.

You could say Broly’s origin is better than the Z version, but still, someone with that kind of power level never being discovered by anyone doesn’t really make sense, though it’s a passable excuse considering how incompetent people like Nahare and Beerus are in their roles.

Now getting back to Broly… my God. I know not everyone cares about this, but to me it’s just absurd that, no matter how much of a prodigy he is, we’re talking about a Saiyan who never trained somehow keeping up with a Blue God fusion level. If they had placed this movie in the same time period as the original, it would’ve felt way more believable, at least for me.

And I really hated that Gogeta (and Bardock as well) showed up purely for fanservice.

Also they missed a chance to have Goku awaken Ultra Instinct against Broly to finish the fight. I would’ve literally paid for another cinema ticket just to see a scene like in the Movie 8, where Broly tries to punch a seemingly unconscious Goku, but Goku grabs his fist, except this time with “Official Clash of Gods / The Final Death Match” plays in the background and Ultra Instinct being triggered.

Sure, that still wouldn’t fix all the movie’s flaws, like Broly basically being a new Gohan but with less personality, but it would’ve made it more enjoyable for me.

[Scsigs]

Wow, I actually agree a lot with this opinion, but my reasons for not liking the Broly movie usually come down to things that some people might just see as nitpicking, or things that, from my perspective, didn’t really fit well. Like, okay, it’s cool that we finally got an animated version of Goku’s mother, but I not really fond of Minus. Also another retelling of Bardock’s story that feels pretty rushed and weaker compared to the TV special? Toriyama, or whoever decided it, made Freeza without armor pink? I know it’s consistent with the manga that Vegeta is bald even as a child because of the whole idea that pure Saiyans are born and die with the same hairstyle, but his kid design in the TV special is still the best one for me.

You could say Broly’s origin is better than the Z version, but still, someone with that kind of power level never being discovered by anyone doesn’t really make sense, though it’s a passable excuse considering how incompetent people like Nahare and Beerus are in their roles.

Now getting back to Broly… my God. I know not everyone cares about this, but to me it’s just absurd that, no matter how much of a prodigy he is, we’re talking about a Saiyan who never trained somehow keeping up with a Blue God fusion level. If they had placed this movie in the same time period as the original, it would’ve felt way more believable, at least for me.

And I really hated that Gogeta (and Bardock as well) showed up purely for fanservice.

Also they missed a chance to have Goku awaken Ultra Instinct against Broly to finish the fight. I would’ve literally paid for another cinema ticket just to see a scene like in the Movie 8, where Broly tries to punch a seemingly unconscious Goku, but Goku grabs his fist, except this time with “Official Clash of Gods / The Final Death Match” plays in the background and Ultra Instinct being triggered.

Sure, that still wouldn’t fix all the movie’s flaws, like Broly basically being a new Gohan but with less personality, but it would’ve made it more enjoyable for me.

It's been known since the movie came out that about an hour's worth of stuff was cut out of the script to make it closer to 2 hours long, so the feeling of parts of it being rushed are certainly understandable since they cut that down to the bare essentials. I certainly would love to see them animate that leftover stuff for an extended cut or an adaptation into an arc for Super the show.

The Minus version of Bardock as well is generally seen as inferior in the fandom to the one from the special. He doesn't go through the journey the original version did & he doesn't have the same personality from what we've seen of him. It's really dumb. Yet we're also to believe he still had the last stand against Freeza like the original did.

Toriyama's original color scheme for Freeza's weakest form was pink in the manga. The animators just made his color palette more accurate to his original design.

So, if we're being honest, NONE of the gods even remotely knew about Goku, Vegeta, or anyone else. The closest was King Kai, who knew what the Saiyans were, but they don't really keep a lot of tabs on the mortal realm. Hell, Beerus was asleep for a good portion of Goku's life & his entire existence is going around the universe & destroying things just for looking at him funny enough to piss him off. He doesn't give a shit. And Whis couldn't give less of a fuck about the universe as a whole outside of food. Considering that Broly & Paragus were stranded on that planet for 40+ years, I could believe no one found them. It certainly makes a LOT more sense than Broly being stabbed by a dagger as a baby & just magically surviving that, then generating enough power to protect him & his father from Freeza's Death Ball.

Considering Freeza was apparently just born with a power level equal to a Super Saiyan 1 plus Gohan having raw power that comes out mainly when he gets angry as fuck, there's precedence for something like that in DB. That's even why Freeza wanted to wipe out the Saiyans. Broly's basically the idealized version of what he feared would happen with the Super Saiyan legend. Which I think is part of what the expanded flashback with Bardock was supposed to establish before they cut out a lot of it to cut down on the runtime. It's also why Freeza wanted to use Broly against Goku & Vegeta since he knows he doesn't stand a chance against them by himself. Now, if your contention is more that Broly's TOO powerful for at this point in the series, I can see that. I just don't think it's too far of a stretch to believe.