Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Jack Bz]

I also think, although it's not a visual thing but a storyline thing, that people don't notice how against Freeza, Toriyama sets a growing sense of despair as he takes every idea that the reader (even as a kid) would have, cranks it up to 11 just to tell you "sorry, doesn't work AT ALL even when breaking limits". Like "yeah, but Goku still has the Kaioken, he just has to go a little higher as usual, Freeza is gonna be shocked!" or "yeah, but Goku still has the Genki Dama, that's gonna settle things!", makes those points actually way more efficient than they should be (Kaioken x10 and x20, Genki Dama turned giant...) AND reveals that even those super-ultra versions of the trump cards the readers might have thought about are proved insufficient one after the other, with the fight never ending when you could have thought it would be the decisive turn.

I've noticed this too. Even in the boo saga, he introduces the super-ultra version of super saiyan (super saiyan 3) fairly early into the arc like he wanted to just get it out of the way as something that won't work this time, unlike with Cell and Freeza where new super saiyan forms were the solution to winning. Makes it more interesting when the readers aren't just waiting for the trump card we're already used to.

[Kid Buu]

One reason why the Buu arc is my favourite is the variety of the battle locations - the Budokai, Babidi's spaceship. the Time Chamber, within Buu's body, the Kaioshin realm.

[SupremeKai25]

One reason why the Buu arc is my favourite is the variety of the battle locations - the Budokai, Babidi's spaceship. the Time Chamber, within Buu's body, the Kaioshin realm.

I always liked the Buu saga because it started on Earth and ended in the World of the Kais. I like when fictional stories do this: Start in Place A, and end in Place B which is very far from Place A. It makes the story and the world feel larger and more epic. So I liked that the Buu saga starts at a simple tournament between humans and culminates in the sacred world of the gods. I feel like there's a unique sense of progression when it's not just the characters who evolve with new forms, but also the setting (changing planets).

To a lesser extent I feel the same way about the Moro saga. It starts on Namek, ends on Earth, and 7-3's remains set the stage for the conflict on Planet Cereal, and I think that's cool.

[The Dark Knight]

One reason why the Buu arc is my favourite is the variety of the battle locations - the Budokai, Babidi's spaceship. the Time Chamber, within Buu's body, the Kaioshin realm.

Don't forget the battle on Kami's lookout; that was the first time we got a fight there outside of filler. I won't say it's my favorite, but I think it was a very well handled final arc for such an amazing story, be it in the manga or especially the anime. If you want to see just how wrong a final arc can go, look no further than Naruto's 4th Great Ninja War arc; that was rough.

[kemuri07]

I also think, although it's not a visual thing but a storyline thing, that people don't notice how against Freeza, Toriyama sets a growing sense of despair as he takes every idea that the reader (even as a kid) would have, cranks it up to 11 just to tell you "sorry, doesn't work AT ALL even when breaking limits". Like "yeah, but Goku still has the Kaioken, he just has to go a little higher as usual, Freeza is gonna be shocked!" or "yeah, but Goku still has the Genki Dama, that's gonna settle things!", makes those points actually way more efficient than they should be (Kaioken x10 and x20, Genki Dama turned giant...) AND reveals that even those super-ultra versions of the trump cards the readers might have thought about are proved insufficient one after the other, with the fight never ending when you could have thought it would be the decisive turn.

I've noticed this too. Even in the boo saga, he introduces the super-ultra version of super saiyan (super saiyan 3) fairly early into the arc like he wanted to just get it out of the way as something that won't work this time, unlike with Cell and Freeza where new super saiyan forms were the solution to winning. Makes it more interesting when the readers aren't just waiting for the trump card we're already used to.

1. I think even in the Cell saga, Toriyama was also tinkering with this idea. Everyone and their mothers could turn into a Super Saiyan, and while it did give them an initial advantage, it also wasn't the final solution either. Where both Vegeta and Trunks do become the strongest characters on the team, and could easily have dealt with the androids, Vegeta's already massive Ego gets an insane fucking boost thanks to becoming Super Vegeta and literally hands over the planet to Cell just so he can fight his perfect form, and Trunks is too much of a novice/subservient to his father that by the time he actually does stand up to Vegeta, it's basically too late. And of course, Goku throwing Gohan to the wolves believing that all Gohan has to do is tap into his latent powers and take down Cell, not taking into account that Gohan does not like fighting the way he does, and then having it thrown back in his face when SSJ2 Gohan starts exhibiting the same arrogance that Goku showed during his fight with Freeza.

Obviously, a lot of this comes down to the nature of writing a successful manga and escalation is the name of the game, but I do think there is something of a theme about absolute power that, even then, Toriyama was cooking with.

[Doctor Seaweed Roll]

Is this a reference to the Unabomber actually in a Legacy of Goku game

Just curious as I saw it on reddit & am curious if it is a shitpost or actually real

[Scsigs]

Is this a reference to the Unabomber actually in a Legacy of Goku game

Just curious as I saw it on reddit & am curious if it is a shitpost or actually real

No. A plot point in the game to get to Gero by taking down a barrier he's set up is where you have to move 3 dinosaur eggs to a lower part of the map for a Brontosaurus mom, then take out the generator powering 1 part of the barrier.

[Doctor Seaweed Roll]

Is this a reference to the Unabomber actually in a Legacy of Goku game

Just curious as I saw it on reddit & am curious if it is a shitpost or actually real

No. A plot point in the game to get to Gero by taking down a barrier he's set up is where you have to move 3 dinosaur eggs to a lower part of the map for a Brontosaurus mom, then take out the generator powering 1 part of the barrier.

Thanks.


Also does anybody remember a fan film where Goku is fighting Stormtroopers from Star Wars? I remember clips on youtube but never seeing the full thing but the animation was quite good from what I remember. My best guess is it originated from a flash portal (maybe Newgrounds or Albino Black Sheep) & due tol YouTube's restriction on how long a video could be they had to upload it in multiple parts

[kiarasuraru]

I watched the Broly movie on a whim last and it's impossible to watch it properly or take it seriously from years and year and years of Japanese memes of it. Just kept laughing whenever I saw something they've beaten into dust from how much they've meme'd about it.
What was not very funny was the actual comedy relief scenes on it. Good lord, what horrible mood killers. Completely out of place. Just what were they thinking?
Even so, the beatdowns were mildly enjoyable. Honestly, under all the typical Toei Movie™-ism, I think there was a genuinely solid thing if it had been a more serious movie. Maybe a bit more focus on Saiyan society or something like that?
Also, sorry to tell all Broly fans out there, but no amount of cope can say otherwise: Kakarot crying is what mindbroke Broly. There's really no deeper or greater reason at all whatsoever.

[kemuri07]

I watched the Broly movie on a whim last and it's impossible to watch it properly or take it seriously from years and year and years of Japanese memes of it. Just kept laughing whenever I saw something they've beaten into dust from how much they've meme'd about it.
What was not very funny was the actual comedy relief scenes on it. Good lord, what horrible mood killers. Completely out of place. Just what were they thinking?
Even so, the beatdowns were mildly enjoyable. Honestly, under all the typical Toei Movie™-ism, I think there was a genuinely solid thing if it had been a more serious movie. Maybe a bit more focus on Saiyan society or something like that?
Also, sorry to tell all Broly fans out there, but no amount of cope can say otherwise: Kakarot crying is what mindbroke Broly. There's really no deeper or greater reason at all whatsoever.

The thing is: The Broly movie is less an actual "movie" and more of an event. And in that context, that explains why the movie is the way it is. Because if you saw it in a crowded theater with a bunch of like-minded people hooting and hollering at every piece of fan service and sakuga, it's hard not to get swept away by it.

I enjoyed seeing it in theater, but I had no real desire seeing it at home. Or rather, I could just go on youtube and watch the fights if I really wanted to.

[Scsigs]

I watched the Broly movie on a whim last and it's impossible to watch it properly or take it seriously from years and year and years of Japanese memes of it. Just kept laughing whenever I saw something they've beaten into dust from how much they've meme'd about it.
What was not very funny was the actual comedy relief scenes on it. Good lord, what horrible mood killers. Completely out of place. Just what were they thinking?
Even so, the beatdowns were mildly enjoyable. Honestly, under all the typical Toei Movie™-ism, I think there was a genuinely solid thing if it had been a more serious movie. Maybe a bit more focus on Saiyan society or something like that?
Also, sorry to tell all Broly fans out there, but no amount of cope can say otherwise: Kakarot crying is what mindbroke Broly. There's really no deeper or greater reason at all whatsoever.

As someone who watched it as a kid from that 3 pack of the Broly movies (before the DVD steelbooks & Blu-Ray rereleases), I'll say that it was definitely a spectacle & I remember liking these movies. and I think that's the market they were aiming for.

However, as an adult, the seams really show. Like, if you're a continuity nerd for DB, this movie can't really fit in the timeline (yes, people slot it in the 10 day wait for the Cell Games, but it's more likely that the writers thought that Toriyama was either gonna have Goku win against Cell, or just live passed him, so it feels more like it's supposed to be that, but Gohan doesn't go SS2 or do the Kamehameha at all), Broly's backstory & motivation for hating & wanting to kill Goku is unintentionally really fucking stupid & funny (no, it wasn't intended to be anything but him somehow remembering Goku crying in the nursery, the first sequel confirms that & it's not even remotely delved into here), Broly himself barely has a personality so he's not really that likable unless you're just here for the fight where he just curbstomps everyone until they power up Goku & he tanks a Kamehameha to the face, etc. On top of that, the movie's a bit longer than it needs to be. I don't think they needed the scene of Broly powering up & fighting Goku before the final fight. That section could've been rewritten to be shorter & have Goku become suspicious of Paragus in a different way & it'd be much better, imo. The movie, thus, is easy to meme the fuck out of & that's why people have.

Not gonna lie, the TFS version of this movie is the one I prefer to watch. Not only is it much shorter, but it has a lot of intentional humor & actually recognizes how stupid everything is.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Not gonna lie, the TFS version of this movie is the one I prefer to watch. Not only is it much shorter, but it has a lot of intentional humor & actually recognizes how stupid everything is.

I'll never understsand preferring anything tfs over the actual material

[angeldreamZ004]

This movie can't really fit in the timeline (yes, people slot it in the 10 day wait for the Cell Games, but it's more likely that the writers thought that Toriyama was either gonna have Goku win against Cell, or just live passed him, so it feels more like it's supposed to be that, but Gohan doesn't go SS2 or do the Kamehameha at all),

And the same applies to all the other 12 movies as they were all meant to be part of the old Toei anime continuity anyway and that's why we got things like the Garlic Jr. Arc featuring Haiya Dragon from Movie 3. And in GT, Coola and Ryu-Ken Explosion. People like to say that the Bojack movie is the only one that perfectly fits into the timeline, but that is only because this movie has the pure convenience of being made and released after the Cell arc was already finished in both anime and manga, and the return of Mirai Trunks to the present timeline doesn't affect what came out later as Toriyama decided to not use him again in the Boo arc. Somewhat people seem to forget that Gohan for some reason can't use SSJ2 from the start in the movie, which is just the same strategy used for SSJ1 Goku in Movie 5, they weren't supposed to use those forms anytime they wanted like they do in the anime / manga after they transform for the first time
Though you could argue that this a production issue, result from the scripts for those movies being made prior to the end of the arcs in the manga, which is possible but there's not enough evidence to support it I think.

Plus, yes, all of them (with the exception of 9 and 13) were made with them already imagining the end of the arc in the manga at the specific moment that Movie X was in development, so no Movies taking place in Namek during the Freeza Saga (funnily enough, only happened during the Androids saga) is a result of them thinking twice that Freeza would be defeated and that the characters would return to Earth earlier.
Obviously this leads to even more inconsistencies, as the sequel movies even have to adress the events that actually happened in the anime / manga, as you said, they very likely thought that Goku would've defeated Cell when making the first Broly movie. But the second Broly movie can't happen without the actual end we got to the Cell arc + The First Broly Movie so... lol

And we get of course a lot of fans creating theories trying to explain all this mess, which is fun I like them, but what Toei actually intended with those movies in terms of continuity is pretty much clear.
(For some reason, Dainzenshuu only chose Movie 7 to specifically tell us that it takes place in a parallel world, maybe they thought of the different timelines? I don't know)

[Scsigs]

Spoiler:

Not gonna lie, the TFS version of this movie is the one I prefer to watch. Not only is it much shorter, but it has a lot of intentional humor & actually recognizes how stupid everything is.

I'll never understand preferring anything tfs over the actual material

I mean, I literally explained why I do for that movie. The removal of parts of it to streamline the plot a bit & improve the pacing, as well as the intentional humor realizing how stupid Broly's motivation is. And, MistareFusion has made an argument for preferring how TFS started off the Android Arc since it partially fixes the issue of the heroes being informed of Dr. Gero & his plans, but not working in a proactive way to actually stop him before his experiments become an issue. I would also argue that the way they streamline the pacing of the arcs is MUCH better than the original Z a lot of the time since it speeds up the pacing by removing the fluff. Kai is my preferred way to watch Z partly because of the fact that they removed most of the filler as well (the better English dub also helps).

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't prefer everything TFS did over the original series. Like, my biggest problem with how they did things was making Gohan a pacifist in the finale of their series. Gohan's NOT a pacifist. He just simply doesn't have the drive to fight like his father &, thus, doesn't get the same enjoyment out of it & wants to do other things with his time, which was a plot point in the Buu Arc. Even in DBZA, that was part of Gohan's characterization until literally the last episode. I hated it. I also as a result don't like 16's speech to Gohan to make him snap & unleash his hidden potential. Gohan's a reactive character who'll go to protect his loved ones when needed rather than a pacifist. Now, I get what they were going for after watching the creator commentary on that part, but I still don't think it worked overall. Had they seeded that into his character earlier in the season, I think it could've worked better.

Granted, all of this is extremely subjective. I don't consider DBZA the definitive version of Z (because, frankly, it's not, nor did they intend it to be), but I find DBZA really funny & I enjoy it for what it is. You clearly don't like them, which is fine, but they're not the worst thing to happen to the franchise. Toriyama made worse decisions for it than they did.

Spoiler:

This movie can't really fit in the timeline (yes, people slot it in the 10 day wait for the Cell Games, but it's more likely that the writers thought that Toriyama was either gonna have Goku win against Cell, or just live passed him, so it feels more like it's supposed to be that, but Gohan doesn't go SS2 or do the Kamehameha at all),

And the same applies to all the other 12 movies as they were all meant to be part of the old Toei anime continuity anyway and that's why we got things like the Garlic Jr. Arc featuring Haiya Dragon from Movie 3. And in GT, Coola and Ryu-Ken Explosion. People like to say that the Bojack movie is the only one that perfectly fits into the timeline, but that is only because this movie has the pure convenience of being made and released after the Cell arc was already finished in both anime and manga, and the return of Mirai Trunks to the present timeline doesn't affect what came out later as Toriyama decided to not use him again in the Boo arc. Somewhat people seem to forget that Gohan for some reason can't use SSJ2 from the start in the movie, which is just the same strategy used for SSJ1 Goku in Movie 5, they weren't supposed to use those forms anytime they wanted like they do in the anime / manga after they transform for the first time.
Though you could argue that this a production issue, result from the scripts for those movies being made prior to the end of the arcs in the manga, which is possible but there's not enough evidence to support it I think.

Plus, yes, all of them (with the exception of 9 and 13) were made with them already imagining the end of the arc in the manga at the specific moment that Movie X was in development, so no Movies taking place in Namek during the Freeza Saga (funnily enough, only happened during the Androids saga) is a result of them thinking twice that Freeza would be defeated and that the characters would return to Earth earlier.
Obviously this leads to even more inconsistencies, as the sequel movies even have to address the events that actually happened in the anime / manga, as you said, they very likely thought that Goku would've defeated Cell when making the first Broly movie. But the second Broly movie can't happen without the actual end we got to the Cell arc + The First Broly Movie so... lol

And we get of course a lot of fans creating theories trying to explain all this mess, which is fun I like them, but what Toei actually intended with those movies in terms of continuity is pretty much clear.
(For some reason, Dainzenshuu only chose Movie 7 to specifically tell us that it takes place in a parallel world, maybe they thought of the different timelines? I don't know)

The first Cooler movie COULD potentially happen after Goku comes back from Yardrat in the timeskip between Freeza & the Androids. The sequel, no dice.
The first Broly movie got lucky that Toriyama introduced a short timeskip where it could potentially take place...if you don't think about it for even a second from the writers' POV. The sequels...no.
Bojack takes place after Cell's defeated, but also before Goku takes King Kai, Bubbles, & Gregory to Otherworld with him.
And Wrath of the Dragon takes place after Kid Buu's defeated, but before they could summon Shenron to wipe everyone's memories of what Buu looked like since Buu doesn't show up...for some reason.
Every other movie takes place in some weird timeline where certain events played out differently so they could happen. Not a lot of the movies were designed to actually logically take place in the regular timeline of the show. They were made to be movies the kids who like DB go to the theater to watch & have a fun time watching, most likely double billed with another anime movie of the time Toei made, which is why they're also a little short. This is why we have Xenoverse 2 explicitly saying that the movies, GT, & I think Daima take place in their own timelines to just do away with the headaches the discontinuities create. Now, I have no problems with that, but the people who still think these movies make perfect sense with the show or manga's timelines if you squint really hard are just so fucking annoying. Like, there is nothing wrong with these movies taking place in their own timelines & the people who can't accept that need to get with the program. Because, despite the discrepancies, most of them are still entertaining popcorn movies that are a lot of fun.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The first Cooler movie COULD potentially happen after Goku comes back from Yardrat in the timeskip between Freeza & the Androids. The sequel, no dice.

I think of the first Cooler movie as a "What if the Spirit Bomb killed Freeza", the problems with the second Cooler movie are because of the lack of kanji on Goku's gi, Vegeta's Super Saiyan transformation and Dende being God it must happen in the lead up to the Cell Games.

[Kid Buu]

The first Cooler movie COULD potentially happen after Goku comes back from Yardrat in the timeskip between Freeza & the Androids. The sequel, no dice.

I think of the first Cooler movie as a "What if the Spirit Bomb killed Freeza", the problems with the second Cooler movie are because of the lack of kanji on Goku's gi, Vegeta's Super Saiyan transformation and Dende being God it must happen in the lead up to the Cell Games.

I also think the Lord Slug works with the "What if the Spirit Bomb killed Freeza" scenario.

[Koitsukai]

The first Cooler movie COULD potentially happen after Goku comes back from Yardrat in the timeskip between Freeza & the Androids. The sequel, no dice.

I think of the first Cooler movie as a "What if the Spirit Bomb killed Freeza", the problems with the second Cooler movie are because of the lack of kanji on Goku's gi, Vegeta's Super Saiyan transformation and Dende being God it must happen in the lead up to the Cell Games.

I also think the Lord Slug works with the "What if the Spirit Bomb killed Freeza" scenario.

I always thought Freeza was defeated before reaching his final form, since Slug is said to be stronger than Freeza, but probably only strongert than one of his suppressed forms.
The movie released in march ’91, when manga Goku was still fighting Ginyu. The movie probably started its production a few months prior to that, when Freeza was in his 1st form. Of course, we know TOEI used to ask Akira for notes and tips from future developments, like when Dende became Kami in Cooler’s 2nd movie. So, I wouldn't write off the Genki Dama being the winner just yet.

[angeldreamZ004]

The first Cooler movie COULD potentially happen after Goku comes back from Yardrat in the timeskip between Freeza & the Androids.

It's common to place it in there, in fact it's what Daizenshuu does, despite a few inconsistencies such as Gohan's haircut and his tail. But yeah I think it works well aside from Goku not using SSJ1 at free will.

The first Broly movie got lucky that Toriyama introduced a short timeskip where it could potentially take place...if you don't think about it for even a second from the writers' POV.

Gaiden should be there too with no issue, but funnily enough the apparitions of some Movie Villains shadows prevents it lol.

Every other movie takes place in some weird timeline where certain events played out differently so they could happen. Not a lot of the movies were designed to actually logically take place in the regular timeline of the show.

The intent changes depending on the period you look at. To me it’s pretty clear that they didn't intend for the Anime to engage with movie content up until the end of the Freeza Saga, but the anime affecting the Movies only. It changes starting from the Garlic Jr. Arc though, and saying that this arc takes place in a different timeline is quite hasty considering that Maron shows up in the Android arc and Haiya Dragon as well. So at least Movies 1 and 3 were being considered at this point.
You can say that 2 and 4-13 are in different timelines indeed, but with 1 and 3 specifically it's complicated, so the easy headcannon for it is that unseen alternate versions of the Tullece and the 1st Garlic Jr. events happened in the anime continuity.

Also, Movie 1 in particular is a peculiar case, because there are things that suggest it was originally supposed to work differently, actually, the same way the 3 first DB movies and the 1996 movie did, which were about telling stories that were parallel versions of the events seen in the anime / manga, with different lore and characters.
What I mean is that Garlic Jr. and his henchmen, plus his backstory with Kami were intended to be a replacement for the Raditz events in the “Movie continuity”.
I say this because unlike the other 12 Movies, which all address elements or at least something seen in the anime / manga only, Movie 1 has absolutely nothing referencing Raditz or anything from Saiyajin lore.
It has Gohan at best and that's it, so I interpret it as that this movie was supposed to be a direct continuation to the Majunior Saga and it replaces the Raditz event.

Then with Movie 2 they dropped the idea, and then the Garlic Jr. saga came and pretty much soft-rebooted that original idea behind Movie 1 so it could fit into the anime continuity (even though they didn't care about the contradictions)

I think of the first Cooler movie as a "What if the Spirit Bomb killed Freeza"

I believe what contributes to this is the fact that I mentioned before about Goku not being able to transform into SSJ1 at free will (something he should).

the problems with the second Cooler movie are because of the lack of kanji on Goku's gi, Vegeta's Super Saiyan transformation and Dende being God it must happen in the lead up to the Cell Games.

Daizenshuu in fact places it prior to the Cell games. As for Dende, I like to think it's this

I also think the Lord Slug works with the "What if the Spirit Bomb killed Freeza" scenario.

It's complicated in case you try to consider the production side though, as the movie was very much likely already in an advanced development state prior to the manga chapter where Goku started charging the Larger Genkidama, so they probably imagined Freeza being defeated in a different way.
But I know no one really considers this detail, and yeah, I used to think of the Slug movie (and Coola too) as a “Freeza died to Genkidama” scenario as well. Kaioh mentioning him for Goku strongly suggests that he's already defeated too.

It makes me think of Movie 2 and 3, as they could both take place in a “what if Goku arrived in time for the fight against Vegeta and Nappa” scenario. It's weird how despite taking place after the Saiyajin Saga, Movie 2 doesn't respect what was established by the end of that arc by any means, so everyone is somehow alive and there's nothing about Namekusei. Still, the scene of Piccolo's sacrifice is used during Gohan's song (which you could interpret as just a visual thing)

Movie 3 seems to follow Movie 2 as again Piccolo is seen alive (and everyone else), and there's no indication that Namekusei happened. Lakasei (or Rezun, can't remember which one) mentions Freeza in a way that strongly implies he's still alive.
It's also suggested that Gohan only got his Namekusei haircut for that movie because of the camping, as the scene of his arrival mirrors the scene where Chichi prepares him for Namekusei.

Anyway, it's funny how we put more effort into the logic of these movies’ timeline placements than Toei ever did lol.

The movie released in march ’91, when manga Goku was still fighting Ginyu. The movie probably started its production a few months prior to that, when Freeza was in his 1st form.

The Ginyu fight was over already, it was Goku charging the Genkidama in the manga and Piccolo fighting 2nd form Freeza in the anime at the moment. Your guess about the production starting around the beginning of the fight against 1st form Freeza in the manga I think is very likely though, as I believe those movies took at least 6 months to be made.

[Kid Buu]

I suppose Lord Slug could take place in a universe where Piccolo beat 2nd Form Freeza and also took out Vegeta too.

[angeldreamZ004]

I suppose Lord Slug could take place in a universe where Piccolo beat 2nd Form Freeza and also took out Vegeta too.

That's common assignment made based on where the anime was at around the movie's release. Technically the same can be done for these:

6: Z-Senshi defeat Android 19 and Gero in time to prevent the awakening of 17, 18 and 16. Cell likely doesn't show up as well.
7: Piccolo defeats 17, 18 and somehow 16 and Cell too. Or, Goku and Piccolo team up with the Androids to defeat Cell and everything goes well later, just like that one Sparking Zero what if.
10 & 11: Babidi & Dabura are defeated and the plan to awaken Boo is successfully stopped just like in Mirai Trunks' timeline. Goku returns to Afterlife.
12: Gotenks defeats Super Boo. (Could be Ultimate Gohan too, but it was released prior to Ultimate Gohan in the anime)

1, 2 and 3 are a bit harder to work it, but you can imagine scenarios for them too, like the one I mentioned before about Goku arriving in time to help against Vegeta and Nappa before nearly the entire Z-Senshi was defeated. Sparking Zero what ifs already give a few such as Goku going to Namekusei and Vegeta defeating Freeza, could work with 2 and 3 I think.