Freeza, The Ginyu Force and Vegeta

SayianAndroid1993 · Post by **SayianAndroid1993** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:41 pm

I've always wondered if Freeza is actually the strongest in the Universe in the namek saga or if he is just the strongest in the north quadron ?

Also the Ginyu Force are stated to be the most elite fighters in the Universe . If they are amongst some of the most powerful fighters in the Universe how many people in the dragonball Universe(at the time of the namek saga) actually have power levels of over 40,000 and how many over 100,000 ?

I also find it strange how none of the Ginyu force or Freeza's minions comment on Vegeta not having a tail(in the Namek saga) . And in Oozaru form he would be Freeza's most powerful warrior behind Captian Ginyu even before he fights Goku, you would expect everyone else to have a little more respect for him . It would have been great if Vegeta could transform agianst Freeza

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:45 pm

Well, we know from later that Kaioshin is stronger than Freeza, as is Dabura. However they are not in the North Quadrant, and I do not believe that anyone specifically in the North Quadrant is named to be stronger than Frieza at that point in time.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:59 pm

Vegeta would actually be the second most powerful being in the universe in Oozaru form, at 180,000. Ginyu tops out at 120,000.

And if Recoome, Burter and Jeice are part of the strongest group out there, then it seems that nobody in the universe gets over 50,000 (not counting the supernatural characters like the Kais and Dabura).

Incidentally, this is why I dislike nearly everything post-Freeza. "FREEZA IS THE STRONGEST IN THE UNIVERSE but some old fart fucking around with robotics in a cave on a dirtball planet in the boondocks of the galaxy creates androids that are as far above Freeza as Freeza is above Roshi." Even worse with those stupid 'hundred fifty million!' numbers from the Daizenshuu.

Anyways, Vegeta wouldn't be able to use Oozaru against Freeza. Freeza knows that the tail is the weak point, I doubt he'd even let Vegeta form the energy ball before ripping off his tail.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:00 pm

SayianAndroid1993 wrote:I've always wondered if Freeza is actually the strongest in the Universe in the namek saga or if he is just the strongest in the north quadron ?

Well, the only people who ever refer to Freeza as the strongest in the universe are either Freeza himself or his underlings. Also, I don't think it was ever stated that Freeza or his empire were confined to the North Galaxy.

Also the Ginyu Force are stated to be the most elite fighters in the Universe . If they are amongst some of the most powerful fighters in the Universe how many people in the dragonball Universe(at the time of the namek saga) actually have power levels of over 40,000 and how many over 100,000 ?

When Freeza transformed into his third form, he mentioned that nobody had seen this transformation before. This implies that in the past he had reason to transform, so it seems there are some people running around with battle powers around a million, or at least there used to be. Also, Ginyu seems to have used his body change technique before, so there most be a few people with powers in the Ginyu Squad range. Not to mention that when Ginyu says Goku must be around 60,000, Jeice says something like "whoever heard of a Saiyan that powerful?!" not "whoever heard of anyone that powerful". So there must be at least a few people outside Freeza and his men around 60,000.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:02 pm

Rocketman wrote:I doubt he'd even let Vegeta form the energy ball before ripping off his tail.

Or his head.

Anyway, if you count the movies and GT, then there's folks like Bojack and Broly and Rildo and all them who are even stronger, hiding out there somewhere in the Universe.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:13 pm

Well, it can all pretty much be written off to Freeza's empire not being very large and Kaiô-sama being too lame to check other galaxies.

Kroni_Hunter · Post by **Kroni_Hunter** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:30 pm

Frieza was probably the second strongest fighter in the universe during the Namek Saga...unless you count GT (I like to pretend GT doesn't exist so I'm ignoring all those random space villains)

Kaioshin wasn't really "in the universe", he wasn't even in the afterlife. He lived outside the globe so he doesn't count.

Dabura was a demon from another world, and I always assumed from the "two sides of a coin" analogy that that world was in another dimension or something, so I don't count him either.

Pikkon was probably dead long before Frieza was around, so the only being stronger than Frieza was Buu. He may have been dormant, but he was alive nonetheless and in the universe.

Oh and about how Frieza said no one had seen his 3rd transformation, he may have shown off his 2nd form to his underlings even though he didn't have to. Zarbon knew about it, and there's no way Frieza would have to transform to beat him. My guess was he didn't want his underlings thinking he was a little wimp so he showed them that buff 2nd form to scare them. Also, if Ginyu had used the body swap before, it's very likely that he wasn't in his original body when we first see him. That means that he was weaker before that he could have been a complete pushover. Even if that was his original body, that means whoever he swapped with before wasn't strong enough so he went back.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:43 pm

Kroni_Hunter wrote:Paikuhan was probably dead long before Freeza was around, so the only being stronger than Freeza was Buu. He may have been dormant, but he was alive nonetheless and in the universe.

Even with Paikuhan, he spent thousands of years training in the afterlife, so it's possible he wasn't even stronger than Freeza when he was alive.

Oh and about how Freeza said no one had seen his 3rd transformation, he may have shown off his 2nd form to his underlings even though he didn't have to. Zarbon knew about it, and there's no way Freeza would have to transform to beat him. My guess was he didn't want his underlings thinking he was a little wimp so he showed them that buff 2nd form to scare them.

I think Zarbon said that Freeza had simply told him that he transformed. But thinking about that "nobody has ever seen this transformation before" line, it'd be funny if Freeza actually had used it before, but made sure noone saw him. Like if he ran way from some powerful opponent, transformed to his third form, then just snuck up behind them and knocked them out.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:47 pm

Kroni_Hunter wrote:Paikuhan was probably dead long before Freeza was around, so the only being stronger than Freeza was Buu.

I'm not sure if is just a dub line or not, but West Kai says that Paikuhan is a new arrival, so he could have been alive during the Freeza stuff.

Also, the warriors that Babidi had under his control could have been stronger than Freeza. We can't get a good gauge of Pui Pui's power because he is so swiftly defeated, but he seems as though he "could" have been more powerful than Freeza. Also, Yakon. He gave Goku a run around for a bit, so he too could also have been stronger than Freeza.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:54 pm

As far as Babidi goes, Freeza would just be enslaved and become another minion, since he's so evil.

Kroni_Hunter · Post by **Kroni_Hunter** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:57 pm

Maybe at one point there were lots of powerful people in the 50 to 100,000 range or higher, and Frieza went around killing them all as he developed his empire. That would explain why the Ginyu force was scared of him even though they probably had never been in battle with him.

But it seems weird that he would give Goku a chance to be his underling if he went around killing people who were powerful, especially with his saiyan phobia..After all Goku was starting to become kind of a threat making Frieza use half his strength.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:01 pm

I always thought the whole point of Pui Pui was as a little joke about how much the power levels had gotten out of control; that he was, say, roughly the level of Saiyan Saga Vegeta, but compared to NOW...

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:03 pm

Thanos6 wrote:I always thought the whole point of Pui Pui was as a little joke about how much the power levels had gotten out of control; that he was, say, roughly the level of Saiyan Saga Vegeta, but compared to NOW...

Assuming that his plantet's gravity being 50X earth gravity thing wasn't a dub line, he was more like Goku halfway to Namek.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:06 pm

The dub said ten times Earth's gravity.

I always took him to be about as strong as Freeza.

Kroni_Hunter · Post by **Kroni_Hunter** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:09 pm

he says his home planet has 10x gravity, which is the same as planet Vegeta. He's probably about the strength of Nappa or a little lower.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:14 pm

Kroni_Hunter wrote:But it seems weird that he would give Goku a chance to be his underling if he went around killing people who were powerful, especially with his saiyan phobia..After all Goku was starting to become kind of a threat making Freeza use half his strength.

He seems to have a habit of offering people to become his underlings. He makes the same offer to Nail. I'd assume that's how he gathered most of his underlings, like Ginyu or Zarbon. They were powerful people who decided to join Freeza rather than be killed by him. It does seem a bit odd that he'd consider letting Goku live though, but he does say he didn't think Goku would actually accept.

Freeza Heika wrote:I'm not sure if is just a dub line or not, but West Kai says that Paikuhan is a new arrival, so he could have been alive during the Freeza stuff.

I don't remember that, so I think it's a dub line. Although I watched the dub of that story arc as well, and I don't remember it there either. But that was years ago, when it first was broadcast on Cartoon Network.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:17 pm

Don't forget, though, all his other underlings are dead. Gotta start recruiting again somewhere.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:20 pm

Rocketman wrote:Don't forget, though, all his other underlings are dead. Gotta start recruiting again somewhere.

He still has a few dozen Freeza Planets that are still populated.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:21 pm

Rocketman wrote:Don't forget, though, all his other underlings are dead. Gotta start recruiting again somewhere.

It'd be interesting if he used to have tons of guys stronger than Ginyu, but they kept getting killed by people who Freeza ended up having to kill himself.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:22 pm

Herms wrote:
Rocketman wrote:Don't forget, though, all his other underlings are dead. Gotta start recruiting again somewhere.
It'd be interesting if he used to have tons of guys stronger than Ginyu, but they kept getting killed by people who Freeza ended up having to kill himself.

So that's where all of the strong guys went...

Kanzenshuu

Freeza, The Ginyu Force and Vegeta

Freeza, The Ginyu Force and Vegeta

Re: Freeza, The Ginyu Force and Vegeta