Dragon Ball Super: Beerus - Episode 3 - Official Discussion Thread

[YamiGoku]

Yeah....

this episode pacing was bad, too fast, and the mix between the new serious tone and the humor didnt help.

I still have hope for the rest of this arc and the Res F part, but after this episode I'm kinda worried about the U6 tournament.

[dbs fanboy]

Freeza training to reach a power level of 1 million was also in Toriyama's Resurrection F script, but that doesn't mean we want to keep it. You can be faithful to Toriyama's script while also removing elements here and there that don't work; Vegeta's dance being one of them.

Then the "Finally, a version faithful to Toriyama's vision" marketing schtick they did doesn't work, gotta choose a road.

Second, there is nothing that doesn't work about Vegeta's dance scene

Exactly, Vegeta's dance scene shows how much he has changed.

Then again, OG Super removed the conversation Goku has with Beerus where he corrects him the moment he starts dissing Vegeta.

So the OG purpose that it had in the movie was lost already.

[Mr Baggins]

Vegeta's bingo dance (and to a lesser extent, Super's takoyaki replacement) is not only funny but also a major development milestone for his character. To not only excuse its removal but actively defend it too is crazy work.

The last episode was just mid. This episode is bad.

[Cold Skin]

I didn't expect the episode to end at that moment. I didn't know if the rock-paper-scissors scene was going to be kept, but I expect it to end either earlier with Vegeta losing to Beerus which seemingly condemns the Earth or later with Goku's arrival.

I never mind that Vegeta was humiliating himself in the other versions, but did see MANY reactions saying it was disgraceful to show Vegeta doing that and that it shouldn't happen and is unworthy of the aura of the character. Those people will be happy with this version! I like it both ways as far as I'm concerned: he's not a sacred character that must never be ridiculed like Sephiroth and it serves a purpose to show him tossing away his famous infinite pride (which is pointed out by lines from Beerus and Goku in the movie), but at the same time, it is nice seeing him being scared and on his nerves while still maintaining his usual serious aura here. So I'm all for Vegeta getting ridiculed, but I'm also all for this new version without him having to go that far out of character. I think both bring interesting things to the table. A certain number of fans that hated what they did with Vegeta in the movie and first series with those scenes will be happy that "they respected Vegeta".

Again, a lot of pleasing presentation to emphasize how intimidating Beerus is.

His reaction to the loss of pudding is probably the funniest yet with this silent shock turning into a resounding scream of horror that alerts Vegeta.

I liked the better dynamism of Majin Boo rushing with a better sense of speed that should take any opponent by surprise and Beerus just swiftly double-kicking him away with an equally fast reaction. But I was rather unimpressed with how most warriors were just taken out in the air without Beerus moving much, more like by a shockwave of sorts while he stays motionless and goes on with his speech. I understand how it conveys his power that he doesn't even really have to move to one-shot them all, but it doesn't bring anything special to enjoy visually.

The way Beerus hits Bulma was MUCH better for someone bound to become a friendly entity later on.
This time, you can see Bulma annoying him shaking his head like that and he had the reaction most people would have if someone annoyed you that way: trying to push them aside with your arm/elbow as a "would you stop that?" gesture, but of course with his strength, it sends Bulma flying away.

I didn't like the following beginning of reaction from Vegeta though, I would have cut most of his "argh-aaaaaargh-gaaaaa..." shocked face and vocals as if he's having a seizure of sorts. It lasts too long and might make people laugh with the over-the-top, almost parody-like reaction (already present in the original episode), I would have made it very short similarly to the movie.

And I wasn't a fan of the VERY desaturated look of a certain number of shots. Having it a bit desaturated just like it was in episode 1 and 2 and even multiple shots of this episode 3 is okay, but part of the shots of this episode were EXTREMELY desaturated, taking it a bit too far for my taste.

Sadly, but expectedly, no explanation given to the Pilaf gang being like that for those who didn't see the movie. Just a few lines lifted from the movie dialogues about their accidental wish would have been enough.

All in all, still an enjoyable experience but this time, on the contrary of the first two episodes, some flaws here and there took me out of it a little. I had a lot of "oh, that's a great improved way to present this" reactions, but also a few of "oh, too bad that it's shown like this" ones.

[Kenji]

The episode just had to remove and/or downplay fun stuff like Bulma's party or Vegeta's shenanigans.
The producers know why Dragon Ball fans watch the franchise for, and they watch it for the fighting.
In case the massive discussion last episode wasn't any indication of that, it's clear where their priorities lie.
Everything else is not important, including whether or not the show remains enjoyable for people who largely don't care about that one aspect out of many that Dragon Ball used to deliver in the past.

But eh, the vast majority of fans seem to enjoy it and it brings them money, so...
OK, I'm done.

[Luso Saiyan]

Freeza training to reach a power level of 1 million was also in Toriyama's Resurrection F script, but that doesn't mean we want to keep it.

Who's "we"?

Then the "Finally, a version faithful to Toriyama's vision" marketing schtick they did doesn't work, gotta choose a road.

I agree. At the end of the day, this is series is clearly just a recut with improved animation in some sequences. There's nothing here about being more faithful to Toriyama. At the very least they could have implemented Toriyama's character designs and colors, which would be well within a remaster project.

[The Dark Knight]

I was rather unimpressed with how most warriors were just taken out in the air without Beerus moving much, more like by a shockwave of sorts while he stays motionless and goes on with his speech. I understand how it conveys his power that he doesn't even really have to move to one-shot them all, but it doesn't bring anything special to enjoy visually.

It makes more sense narratively though and lines up better with what came before in Z. These characters couldn't do anything against Perfect Cell, much less have a chance to get anywhere near Beerus. One thing I like about this new version is that it seems to be going out of its way to fix the power scaling issues Super 1.0 had.

The way Beerus hits Bulma was MUCH better for someone bound to become a friendly entity later on.

Yep. I always questioned how Bulma could overlook someone outright slapping her, so this solves that issue.

Who's "we"?

What do mean ? you and me silly.

[Grimlock]

That whole "sticking to Toriyama's vision" was thrown out of the window in the first episode when Gregory appeared. Toriyama made his stance about him very clear when he didn't put the character in the movie, he may have designed him, but he still doesn't acknowledge his existence. If Gregory appears, it means Toriyama wasn't really full on board during the entire production process.

[dbs fanboy]

You know?, this confirms to me that they are def erasing Goku biting Beerus's tail, out of existence, meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.

[M16U3L2015]

One thing that bothered me was how, about halfway through the episode, the colors are desaturated. Obviously, I don't want it to be like the original, where the saturation was excessive, but I feel like they went in the opposite direction here, it looks more like a flashback than anything else.

Spoiler:

As well as being inconsistent from one scene to another, all of these screenshots are from the same scene, Vegeta's skin changes a lot

Spoiler:

And the previous episode didn't have that problem, the colors were vibrant, but they weren't quite as awful as in OG Super.

Spoiler:

[kiarasuraru]

This is how you can truly tell this is the real genuine original most closest accurate Torimaya™ vision ever of them all: By chopping out all the lighthearted, comedic moments and only srs business and tension allowed! Showing how far Vegeta has come that he's willing to put himself through humiliation rituals for the sake of others? Too silly, my prince must be always serious and proper and brooding and angry.
Except Oolong RPS, very important, the most important and the priority. For whatever reason. That was weird.

[angeldreamZ004]

Haven't watched the episode yet so I can't comment much, but I probably won't say much after I watch it either, so I'll just say that based on what I saw from people's thoughts, what I really liked is that they did decide to record new lines, or at least re-record some of them, not doing that was my biggest fear. For the rest it's what I expected, I'll probably continue thinking that it's definitely an improvement visual-wise, but not story-wise, nothing different to say.
Actually, from what I'm reading, it just makes me wonder, what exactly the hell did Iyoku mean when saying this? Was him referring to the original script of Battle of Gods? That one made by Yusuke Watanabe where everything was much darker, serious and Beerus was more villainous? That's why all the "Beerus has to be scary" thing?

Spoiler:

Mysteries of the World.

What's up with the purple effects on Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2? What a random addition.

Ultra Ego Foreshadowing

[fadeddreams5]

Man, I can't believe I'm saying this, but the original Super episode was better. The animation, art, and music are obviously improvements, but the pacing was god-awful. Scenes of Piccolo monologuing and characters reacting to the situation added a lot to the fight. Here, they just jumped Beerus with no rhyme or reason. There was no dialogue questioning who he was or even acknowledging his power.

The execution of Beerus' attack on Bulma was also censored, making it look like an accidental shove that shouldn't have warranted such an extreme reaction from Vegeta. In the original, Beerus is about to finish Vegeta off with a blast before Bulma slaps him, prompting Beerus to deliberately assault her. You could actually feel the impact of the blow, but the sequence was ultimately ruined by a cheesy rage boost. Incidentally, that aspect was improved here, although Vegeta's exaggerated grunts and facial expressions were still a bit cringe.

I loved the first two episodes, but this one was really bad.

[Grimlock]

Ultra Ego Foreshadowing

That would take the concept of "randomness" to a level never seen before.

[ssj3kakarot]

I wished they hadn't used the 10% line AGAIN.

Knowing what we know now, it would save a lot of the power scaling if Beerus's 10% wasn't used here. The end of Super still has Beerus hinted at being stronger than anything (MUI, Beast, Broly, etc). It's fine to say Vegeta's rage boost gave him more fun than Goku's ssj3, but they should have left how much power output as a mystery. Sure, a flick was all it took to take out Vegeta, but, meh.

[OmegaRockman]

Definitely a step down from the first two. I've been pretty forgiving of this recut so far, but even I have to admit that the editing was off. I could see what they were going for in places, but I think they may have gone too far in some of the cuts. A lot of spots have zero breathing room. I don't think this will sink the show as a whole, but I do hope episodes like this don't become a trend. With luck this is a one-off misfire that doesn't bring down the quality of the arc too much. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter too much in the long run since I can still sub in the movie for this story; after all, I've pretty much said from the start the movie was always going to remain my go-to version. But I do hope the U6 Tournament doesn't suffer from an episode like this.

Also, where's that explanation for the Pilaf gang, Toei?

[IntangibleFancy]

I didn't want to say it, but I feel like Akio stretched the truth when he claimed that this was Toriyama's vision. The more I see of this the more it feels like he just scoured the internet and made a remaster that appealed to a modern/younger western audience. Hence the purple effects and weird filter, the increasingly noticeable lack of gags, Beerus' menacingness making him a lot more different than he's been in every other part of the franchise, and of course the opening and ending which don't sound bad but very generic.

And it being like that doesn't bother me too much. I would have obviously preferred a full remake, but I know it'd just take more time and that this was made to hold us over until they can either start the marketing for Moro or have it close by.

[kemuri07]

Almost forgot that this was on today, and was only reminded because the guild I'm in in some gacha mobile game is called Dragonball.

Not really much to say. It's an uninteresting episode that really shows the limits of this attempt at bringing a more "serious" tone to this arc. You get the impression that they tried to edit out as much "shenanigans" as possible, but they couldn't get rid of all of it because that would break the episode. And they cant just do what the manga did and go immediately to Bulma getting slapped because we gotta fill the 20 min runtime with content. So yeah we get this schizophrenic episode that's all over the place.

Vegeta's bingo dance (and to a lesser extent, Super's takoyaki replacement) is not only funny but also a major development milestone for his character. To not only excuse its removal but actively defend it too is crazy work.

The last episode was just mid. This episode is bad.

You know, I keep on asking who this is meant for. And I don't really buy that this is a version that's more accessible for a newcomer. Personally, they could probably just go watch OG Super (though honestly my answer would just be to go watch Dragonball Z), and it probably would have been better if they just released Super and maybe enhanced a couple scenes here and there.

But what I find interesting in this Beerus cut is what it chooses to edit, focus on, and out right rip out from Super. And it seems to less have anything to do with making the story flow better (quite the opposite, actually) and more about trying to make Super appeal to a specific Dragon Ball fan. This is what I imagine: Daima didn't bring in the money that Toei expected for a franchise like Dragonball, and you had people complain about the more light-hearted tone of Daima, specifically those who just wanted "Super 2." And so this is the answer: an "enhanced" version of Super that's really more about getting rid of most of the things that specific kind of fan do not like.

All in all, Super finally feels like a legitimate sequel to Z, and I can't wait for what's next.

Oh boy!

[JulieYBM]

I haven't watched the episode yet thanks to various factors being a bigger priority, but from the clip that I've seen of Vegeta's attack on Beerus, this episode is like watching a person slowly die lol

The Gundam movie trilogy having actual, proper rewrites and new shots of animation made those films work, despite being mostly sourced from the original television series' animation. It's such a shame that this production didn't learn from that. Even compared to redoing everything from scratch with Shintani designs, it could have been such an easy home run.

Oh, well, at least they tossed out Furuya Tooru's recordings for Yamcha, that was nice of them. I guess.

[Issei189]

Not a good episode. The pacing and their use of that color filter was inconsistent. The supporting cast was reduced to lifeless background characters with no Dialogue aside from Buu and Satan. Vegeta's takoyaki cooking moment shouldn't have been cut. It was meant to convey how much he has grown since the Buu saga as he swallowed his pride for the sake of Earth. Vegeta's redrawn fight scenes are the only good part about this episode.