Freeza, The Ginyu Force and Vegeta

[mAcChaos]

You guys mean capable of defeating FREEZA, right?

[Herms]

Ahahaha...yeah, that's right. I think I need more sleep...

[Xyex]

I know I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure at this point in the series, Base Vegeta, and for that matter, Base Goku, could Kill Freeza at 100%. I am not saying it would be a push over, but yeah.

Absolutely not. I see that as utterly impossible. I can't see base Vegeta being anything higher than 10 million at this point, maximum. The absurd base power gains ended after after Namek, there was no longer a need for them. SSJ grants hugely massive amounts of power with just fractional gains in base.

Something comparable to dealing with 100% Freeza (by the Daizenshuu's 120 million power for him) would need to be around 100 to 110 million. Even assuming the lower end of that that's a 5 billion SSJ level, not even considering SSJ2. And Goku's stronger than that, plus has SSJ3.

[Kaboom]

Right. By the Buu saga, it would still take Goku or Vegeta Super Saiyan to beat Freeza. It'd just be a lot easier.

[Casual Matt]

I've always wondered if Freeza is actually the strongest in the Universe in the namek saga or if he is just the strongest in the north quadron ?

I don't think anybody has pointed this out yet, but Freeza's empire was not limited to the North Galaxy because Planet Namek was not in the North Galaxy.

I believe it's somewhere near the end of the Freeza Arc where Kaio-sama states that Planet Namek is not under his jurisdiction, which we learn later would be the Northern Galaxy.

[Rocketman]

I believe it's somewhere near the end of the Freeza Arc where Kaio-sama states that Planet Namek is not under his jurisdiction, which we learn later would be the Northern Galaxy.

I think he's referring to the fact that he can't do anything about Goku and Krillin's being revived where Namek was. As in, souls are out of his jurisdiction, not necessarily Namek itself.

[Cypher]

The only thing I can see that confuses the Saiyajin base strength during the Buu saga is that Kaioushin claims that he could defeat Freeza with one blow, but is stunned by how easily base Vegeta demolishes Puipui...is the general consensus just that Kaioushin is terrified of anything Majin, or is his often-criticised failure to accurately read power levels in play here? Either he observed Freeza and thought him much weaker than he actually was, or observed Puipui and completely overestimated him...

[JulieYBM]

I know I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure at this point in the series, Base Vegeta, and for that matter, Base Goku, could Kill Freeza at 100%. I am not saying it would be a push over, but yeah.

Absolutely not. I see that as utterly impossible. I can't see base Vegeta being anything higher than 10 million at this point, maximum. The absurd base power gains ended after after Namek, there was no longer a need for them. SSJ grants hugely massive amounts of power with just fractional gains in base.

Something comparable to dealing with 100% Freeza (by the Daizenshuu's 120 million power for him) would need to be around 100 to 110 million. Even assuming the lower end of that that's a 5 billion SSJ level, not even considering SSJ2. And Goku's stronger than that, plus has SSJ3.

Then again, look where training at 100G got Son, sure with a few Senzu and all but Vegeta had seven years to get use to 500G.

[Xyex]

is the general consensus just that Kaioushin is terrified of anything Majin, or is his often-criticised failure to accurately read power levels in play here?

Both, IMO. He's scared shitless of the Majin's and his ki sensing sucks ass. Thus the reaction to Pui Pui.

Then again, look where training at 100G got Son, sure with a few Senzu and all but Vegeta had seven years to get use to 500G.

Exactly, Zenkai out the wazoo. I don't see that happening following Namek. Vegeta got two or three, maybe, but then he hit SSJ and they seem to like, die then. Obviously he wasn't much different than Goku at the start of the Android stuff and the two of them were pretty close before that and Goku didn't use gravity during the 3 years. So yeah, power growth in base is back down to the kind of gains they made Pre Saiya-jin Saga.

[SSj_Rambo]

Then again, look where training at 100G got Son, sure with a few Senzu and all but Vegeta had seven years to get use to 500G.

It's also a possibility that the reason that Vegeta didn't transform sooner is because of his hatred to Goku, seeing as when he let go of his competitive spirit towards Goku he transformed.

It also could have taken him so long just because he never went through the necessary mental stress, like Goku had.

I believe both of these theory's which is why I think that before Vegeta transformed he was stronger than Goku was when he transformed, IMO of course.

[Herms]

I think he's referring to the fact that he can't do anything about Goku and Krillin's being revived where Namek was. As in, souls are out of his jurisdiction, not necessarily Namek itself.

The word Kaio uses in Japanese, kuiki, implies he's talking about a spatial region.

[Rocketman]

It's also a possibility that the reason that Vegeta didn't transform sooner is because of his hatred to Goku, seeing as when he let go of his competitive spirit towards Goku he transformed.

Anime, probably dub-only. In the manga he transforms after getting enraged at himself for not being able to transform.

[SSj_Rambo]

It's also a possibility that the reason that Vegeta didn't transform sooner is because of his hatred to Goku, seeing as when he let go of his competitive spirit towards Goku he transformed.

Anime, probably dub-only. In the manga he transforms after getting enraged at himself for not being able to transform.

Oh ya, that was a dub line. I haven't seen that saga or read that part of the manga I got them mixed up, oops. Thanks for pointing that out!